Anne Arundel - NO special ed teachers will return

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So those of you saying fire them, where are you getting new sped teachers from right now? There aren't 100s of unemployed, ready to work people with sped credentials. They can't even find enough subs on a daily basis when we aren't in a pandemic, and that has basically no qualifications. I get the frustration, but unless you want someone with no classroom education or experience teaching the neediest kids, there isn't a better option, is there?

I don't really see the downside. The teachers have worked hard to ensure schools won't open anytime soon regardless if what is done. It's true that firing/furloughing the teachers might not allow reopening, but that's already the situation that we're in.

The best way to deal with this problem long-term is to nip this in the bud now.

So you'd rather have no school than virtual school? Am I understanding that correctly? And then when school reopens eventually have no teachers to come in? That seems incredibly short sighted, but maybe I'm missing something.

Yes. Virtual school is the same as no school for SPED kids. I know this because I'm living through it right now (in MCPS).

I might be more worried about losing teachers if I wasn't so convinced that a substantial percentage would do their jobs if the alternative was losing their jobs without unemployment benefits.

Not for my SPED kid. In-person school better than virtual school, but virtual school for sure better than nothing. I do not advocate mass firings of teachers at all. Please speak for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should teachers have the choice to return? Everyone else has been told to get on with it or get out. What about police force, supermarket workers, nurses and the rest. Teachers are being far to precious. Get on with the job you are paid for. Children are paying the price.

#ReopenSchools

If so many other professionals can work from home and get paid for the work that they do, why can’t teachers do the same? Most of you guys are sitting at home working and getting a paycheck. But you are up in arms when teachers want to do the same? Smh

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

I am a professional who works from home, but the difference is I work with ADULTS, not children, who are fully capable of using technology to do their day-to-day jobs. In my experience, 6 year olds are not experts in using Word, PowerPoint, Zoom, or interacting only with other people via computer.

Young children were not meant to use computers all day. Are educators now condoning the use of screens for 6+ hours a day for a 6 year old? Last time I checked, I thought there was some guidance that suggested this much screen time was inappropriate for developing brains, but I'm not the expert

Have you even thought that teachers are moms, too? My SIL is one and she has elementary school kids at home. She can't leave them alone all day and the dad is overseas.

Ummm... what do millions of working moms do that work in positions that can't be done at home? You need to get childcare. There are plenty of centers open that can care for elementary children and help them with distance learning. I know, because I am in this category and can't leave my kids home alone while I DO MY JOB.

Don't forget, school is not daycare!

Seems school is childcare when the parent is a teacher. Cause they don’t get paid enough to afford it, or something.

Can you please point to a center like this in AA? I'm in VA and we don't have anything like you described for ES, unless it's a pod or private school. And yes, she can't afford private school, because her salary is miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should teachers have the choice to return? Everyone else has been told to get on with it or get out. What about police force, supermarket workers, nurses and the rest. Teachers are being far to precious. Get on with the job you are paid for. Children are paying the price.

#ReopenSchools

If so many other professionals can work from home and get paid for the work that they do, why can’t teachers do the same? Most of you guys are sitting at home working and getting a paycheck. But you are up in arms when teachers want to do the same? Smh

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

I am a professional who works from home, but the difference is I work with ADULTS, not children, who are fully capable of using technology to do their day-to-day jobs. In my experience, 6 year olds are not experts in using Word, PowerPoint, Zoom, or interacting only with other people via computer.

Young children were not meant to use computers all day. Are educators now condoning the use of screens for 6+ hours a day for a 6 year old? Last time I checked, I thought there was some guidance that suggested this much screen time was inappropriate for developing brains, but I'm not the expert

Have you even thought that teachers are moms, too? My SIL is one and she has elementary school kids at home. She can't leave them alone all day and the dad is overseas.

Ummm... what do millions of working moms do that work in positions that can't be done at home? You need to get childcare. There are plenty of centers open that can care for elementary children and help them with distance learning. I know, because I am in this category and can't leave my kids home alone while I DO MY JOB.

Don't forget, school is not daycare!

Seems school is childcare when the parent is a teacher. Cause they don’t get paid enough to afford it, or something.

Can you please point to a center like this in AA? I'm in VA and we don't have anything like you described for ES, unless it's a pod or private school. And yes, she can't afford private school, because her salary is miserable.

They're paid programs, and fairly expensive. But the point is that that is what other working parents have been forced to use because schools are closed. A nurse can't demand to telework so they can watch their own kids and expect to keep their job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should teachers have the choice to return? Everyone else has been told to get on with it or get out. What about police force, supermarket workers, nurses and the rest. Teachers are being far to precious. Get on with the job you are paid for. Children are paying the price.

#ReopenSchools

If so many other professionals can work from home and get paid for the work that they do, why can’t teachers do the same? Most of you guys are sitting at home working and getting a paycheck. But you are up in arms when teachers want to do the same? Smh

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

I am a professional who works from home, but the difference is I work with ADULTS, not children, who are fully capable of using technology to do their day-to-day jobs. In my experience, 6 year olds are not experts in using Word, PowerPoint, Zoom, or interacting only with other people via computer.

Young children were not meant to use computers all day. Are educators now condoning the use of screens for 6+ hours a day for a 6 year old? Last time I checked, I thought there was some guidance that suggested this much screen time was inappropriate for developing brains, but I'm not the expert

Have you even thought that teachers are moms, too? My SIL is one and she has elementary school kids at home. She can't leave them alone all day and the dad is overseas.

Ummm... what do millions of working moms do that work in positions that can't be done at home? You need to get childcare. There are plenty of centers open that can care for elementary children and help them with distance learning. I know, because I am in this category and can't leave my kids home alone while I DO MY JOB.

Don't forget, school is not daycare!

Seems school is childcare when the parent is a teacher. Cause they don’t get paid enough to afford it, or something.

Can you please point to a center like this in AA? I'm in VA and we don't have anything like you described for ES, unless it's a pod or private school. And yes, she can't afford private school, because her salary is miserable.

They're paid programs, and fairly expensive. But the point is that that is what other working parents have been forced to use because schools are closed. A nurse can't demand to telework so they can watch their own kids and expect to keep their job.

Exactly. Retail workers, health aides at a nursing home (who ALL make much less than teachers BTW) need to arrange similar care for their children. I am so sick and tired of teachers saying "what do I do with my kids when I am working?" They need to do the same thing millions of other working moms need to do because the teachers refuse to open schools.

In Anne Arundel County, there are multiple options. Many of the elementary schools opened up the onsite SACC program facilities to children, so my kids are actually going back to school each day (because it's safe ... if you pay!) and attending their online classes AT THE SCHOOL. We pay $180 per child per week, and several of the kids in the program are children of teachers.

Additionally, many of the local churches have opened virtual learning centers, and the local daycares have expanded their programs to care for elementary aged children. There are many options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should teachers have the choice to return? Everyone else has been told to get on with it or get out. What about police force, supermarket workers, nurses and the rest. Teachers are being far to precious. Get on with the job you are paid for. Children are paying the price.

#ReopenSchools

If so many other professionals can work from home and get paid for the work that they do, why can’t teachers do the same? Most of you guys are sitting at home working and getting a paycheck. But you are up in arms when teachers want to do the same? Smh

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

I am a professional who works from home, but the difference is I work with ADULTS, not children, who are fully capable of using technology to do their day-to-day jobs. In my experience, 6 year olds are not experts in using Word, PowerPoint, Zoom, or interacting only with other people via computer.

Young children were not meant to use computers all day. Are educators now condoning the use of screens for 6+ hours a day for a 6 year old? Last time I checked, I thought there was some guidance that suggested this much screen time was inappropriate for developing brains, but I'm not the expert

Have you even thought that teachers are moms, too? My SIL is one and she has elementary school kids at home. She can't leave them alone all day and the dad is overseas.

Ummm... what do millions of working moms do that work in positions that can't be done at home? You need to get childcare. There are plenty of centers open that can care for elementary children and help them with distance learning. I know, because I am in this category and can't leave my kids home alone while I DO MY JOB.

Don't forget, school is not daycare!

Seems school is childcare when the parent is a teacher. Cause they don’t get paid enough to afford it, or something.

Can you please point to a center like this in AA? I'm in VA and we don't have anything like you described for ES, unless it's a pod or private school. And yes, she can't afford private school, because her salary is miserable.

They're paid programs, and fairly expensive. But the point is that that is what other working parents have been forced to use because schools are closed. A nurse can't demand to telework so they can watch their own kids and expect to keep their job.

Correct, but nurses make significantly more $ and they are essential workers, so they get priority childcare. For example, our preschool was open from March to June for only essential workers' children. So, the only way to get the SN teachers back in class is to open the schools for everyone, so she can send her kids to school too OR pay the tuition of her children to attend these expensive programs. And I agree with the PP that they need hazard pay - my SIL was physically attacked, spitted on, scratched etc. before Covid. Her students will not keep their masks on. School is childcare, the teachers CARE for the children while they are in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should teachers have the choice to return? Everyone else has been told to get on with it or get out. What about police force, supermarket workers, nurses and the rest. Teachers are being far to precious. Get on with the job you are paid for. Children are paying the price.

#ReopenSchools

If so many other professionals can work from home and get paid for the work that they do, why can’t teachers do the same? Most of you guys are sitting at home working and getting a paycheck. But you are up in arms when teachers want to do the same? Smh

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

I am a professional who works from home, but the difference is I work with ADULTS, not children, who are fully capable of using technology to do their day-to-day jobs. In my experience, 6 year olds are not experts in using Word, PowerPoint, Zoom, or interacting only with other people via computer.

Young children were not meant to use computers all day. Are educators now condoning the use of screens for 6+ hours a day for a 6 year old? Last time I checked, I thought there was some guidance that suggested this much screen time was inappropriate for developing brains, but I'm not the expert

Have you even thought that teachers are moms, too? My SIL is one and she has elementary school kids at home. She can't leave them alone all day and the dad is overseas.

Ummm... what do millions of working moms do that work in positions that can't be done at home? You need to get childcare. There are plenty of centers open that can care for elementary children and help them with distance learning. I know, because I am in this category and can't leave my kids home alone while I DO MY JOB.

Don't forget, school is not daycare!

Seems school is childcare when the parent is a teacher. Cause they don’t get paid enough to afford it, or something.

Can you please point to a center like this in AA? I'm in VA and we don't have anything like you described for ES, unless it's a pod or private school. And yes, she can't afford private school, because her salary is miserable.

I'm really surprised there's nothing like that in Virginia, but there are a lot of options in Anne Arundel. Every martial arts school I know of is now open five days a week for childcare/school facilitation. The Y has a program both at their facility and on-site at several schools. I can think of two different eco/bay programs offering programs off the top of my head.
They're all paid programming, which, as many others have pointed out, is the exact same sucky situation as working parents in every other industry.

It's also important to remember that we are talking about dozens of teachers here, not the thousands that would be under discussion if all schools were opening back up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Correct, but nurses make significantly more $ and they are essential workers, so they get priority childcare. For example, our preschool was open from March to June for only essential workers' children. So, the only way to get the SN teachers back in class is to open the schools for everyone, so she can send her kids to school too OR pay the tuition of her children to attend these expensive programs[i][u]. And I agree with the PP that they need hazard pay - my SIL was physically attacked, spitted on, scratched etc. before Covid. Her students will not keep their masks on. School is childcare, the teachers CARE for the children while they are in school.

What in the world is the logic there??? We haven't said "the only way to get the grocery clerks back to work is to open the schools for everyone OR pay the tuition of her children"!!
I completely agree SN teachers (and actually - more significantly in this case - SN paraprofessionals) need HUGE pay raises. But that's a separate issue from childcare for them right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SPED teachers are really in an impossible situation- DL doesn’t really work for their students, yet it will be very dangerous to be back in a class full of kids who are violent, regularly eject bodily fluids, and aren’t capable of wearing masks. If they are forced back, they should absolutely get hazard pay- like double their current salaries. Given how many SPED teachers there actually are per district, it would be a minimal cost in the long run to retain good teachers. A number of nursing homes did this- hazard pay- because many of them face similar issues, especially in the dementia wards.

Agree. My neighbor is a SPED and she gets banged up and bruised in regular times. She has told me her room is the smelliest place in the building because her students love to fart. And spit. They also really love to hug her. A lot. And they need help going to the bathroom. SPED teaching is highly interactive and not for the weak.

My DD has SN and though she is an easy kid, teaching her requires extra work. If this thread is any indication of the general attitude, I think SPED teachers deserve more respect than is shown here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Can you please point to a center like this in AA? I'm in VA and we don't have anything like you described for ES, unless it's a pod or private school. And yes, she can't afford private school, because her salary is miserable.

I'm really surprised there's nothing like that in Virginia, but there are a lot of options in Anne Arundel. Every martial arts school I know of is now open five days a week for childcare/school facilitation. The Y has a program both at their facility and on-site at several schools. I can think of two different eco/bay programs offering programs off the top of my head.
They're all paid programming, which, as many others have pointed out, is the exact same sucky situation as working parents in every other industry.

It's also important to remember that we are talking about dozens of teachers here, not the thousands that would be under discussion if all schools were opening back up.

I'm in Fairfax County VA and there are plenty of centers like that available (Martial arts and dance places) plus SACC has a school day program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Can you please point to a center like this in AA? I'm in VA and we don't have anything like you described for ES, unless it's a pod or private school. And yes, she can't afford private school, because her salary is miserable.

I'm really surprised there's nothing like that in Virginia, but there are a lot of options in Anne Arundel. Every martial arts school I know of is now open five days a week for childcare/school facilitation. The Y has a program both at their facility and on-site at several schools. I can think of two different eco/bay programs offering programs off the top of my head.
They're all paid programming, which, as many others have pointed out, is the exact same sucky situation as working parents in every other industry.

It's also important to remember that we are talking about dozens of teachers here, not the thousands that would be under discussion if all schools were opening back up.

I'm in Fairfax County VA and there are plenty of centers like that available (Martial arts and dance places) plus SACC has a school day program.

Our sacc has a 2 year waiting list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So those of you saying fire them, where are you getting new sped teachers from right now? There aren't 100s of unemployed, ready to work people with sped credentials. They can't even find enough subs on a daily basis when we aren't in a pandemic, and that has basically no qualifications. I get the frustration, but unless you want someone with no classroom education or experience teaching the neediest kids, there isn't a better option, is there?

I don't really see the downside. The teachers have worked hard to ensure schools won't open anytime soon regardless if what is done. It's true that firing/furloughing the teachers might not allow reopening, but that's already the situation that we're in.

The best way to deal with this problem long-term is to nip this in the bud now.

So you'd rather have no school than virtual school? Am I understanding that correctly? And then when school reopens eventually have no teachers to come in? That seems incredibly short sighted, but maybe I'm missing something.

Yes. Virtual school is the same as no school for SPED kids. I know this because I'm living through it right now (in MCPS).

I might be more worried about losing teachers if I wasn't so convinced that a substantial percentage would do their jobs if the alternative was losing their jobs without unemployment benefits.

That's a game of chicken, and you might not win it. That's fine, but better clearly articulate the back-up plan in case you lose the bluff.

It's less of a bluff and more of a calculated risk.

And the back-up plan is basically the status quo... As bad as that is, there's not much to lose when there's no end in sight.

So ... if those SPED teachers retire or find other jobs, and kids return to school, you're just going to be ok with the status quo continuing? A lot of SPED positions were unfilled before the pandemic -- and before you pretty much told trained professionals "my way or the highway." They aren't going to be easier to fill now.

The school districts would figure it out. Perhaps not immediately, but fairly soon. Why? Because they're legally required to provide it. If they had to, they'd hire contractors with nurses and therapist to meet the legal requirements. And longer-term, they'd be forced to renegotiate the contract with the unions to pay SPED teachers more.

Right. They may be legally required to do so, but physically unable to do so (e.g., there are not specialized teachers to do it). In that case, the only option is to modify the law.

Laws change sometimes. In this hypothetical case, they would have to -- e.g., decreasing the skills or accreditation level of providers so the positions can be filled.

You may be satisfied with that, but I am not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So those of you saying fire them, where are you getting new sped teachers from right now? There aren't 100s of unemployed, ready to work people with sped credentials. They can't even find enough subs on a daily basis when we aren't in a pandemic, and that has basically no qualifications. I get the frustration, but unless you want someone with no classroom education or experience teaching the neediest kids, there isn't a better option, is there?

I don't really see the downside. The teachers have worked hard to ensure schools won't open anytime soon regardless if what is done. It's true that firing/furloughing the teachers might not allow reopening, but that's already the situation that we're in.

The best way to deal with this problem long-term is to nip this in the bud now.

So you'd rather have no school than virtual school? Am I understanding that correctly? And then when school reopens eventually have no teachers to come in? That seems incredibly short sighted, but maybe I'm missing something.

Yes. Virtual school is the same as no school for SPED kids. I know this because I'm living through it right now (in MCPS).

I might be more worried about losing teachers if I wasn't so convinced that a substantial percentage would do their jobs if the alternative was losing their jobs without unemployment benefits.

That's a game of chicken, and you might not win it. That's fine, but better clearly articulate the back-up plan in case you lose the bluff.

It's less of a bluff and more of a calculated risk.

And the back-up plan is basically the status quo... As bad as that is, there's not much to lose when there's no end in sight.

So ... if those SPED teachers retire or find other jobs, and kids return to school, you're just going to be ok with the status quo continuing? A lot of SPED positions were unfilled before the pandemic -- and before you pretty much told trained professionals "my way or the highway." They aren't going to be easier to fill now.

The school districts would figure it out. Perhaps not immediately, but fairly soon. Why? Because they're legally required to provide it. If they had to, they'd hire contractors with nurses and therapist to meet the legal requirements. And longer-term, they'd be forced to renegotiate the contract with the unions to pay SPED teachers more.

Right. They may be legally required to do so, but physically unable to do so (e.g., there are not specialized teachers to do it). In that case, the only option is to modify the law.

Laws change sometimes. In this hypothetical case, they would have to -- e.g., decreasing the skills or accreditation level of providers so the positions can be filled.

You may be satisfied with that, but I am not.

The far more likely scenario is that they'd be forced to hire much more expensive contractors to provide the service, or paying for specialized private schools, since the alternative would be getting a *federal* law changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So those of you saying fire them, where are you getting new sped teachers from right now? There aren't 100s of unemployed, ready to work people with sped credentials. They can't even find enough subs on a daily basis when we aren't in a pandemic, and that has basically no qualifications. I get the frustration, but unless you want someone with no classroom education or experience teaching the neediest kids, there isn't a better option, is there?

I don't really see the downside. The teachers have worked hard to ensure schools won't open anytime soon regardless if what is done. It's true that firing/furloughing the teachers might not allow reopening, but that's already the situation that we're in.

The best way to deal with this problem long-term is to nip this in the bud now.

So you'd rather have no school than virtual school? Am I understanding that correctly? And then when school reopens eventually have no teachers to come in? That seems incredibly short sighted, but maybe I'm missing something.

Yes. Virtual school is the same as no school for SPED kids. I know this because I'm living through it right now (in MCPS).

I might be more worried about losing teachers if I wasn't so convinced that a substantial percentage would do their jobs if the alternative was losing their jobs without unemployment benefits.

That's a game of chicken, and you might not win it. That's fine, but better clearly articulate the back-up plan in case you lose the bluff.

It's less of a bluff and more of a calculated risk.

And the back-up plan is basically the status quo... As bad as that is, there's not much to lose when there's no end in sight.

So ... if those SPED teachers retire or find other jobs, and kids return to school, you're just going to be ok with the status quo continuing? A lot of SPED positions were unfilled before the pandemic -- and before you pretty much told trained professionals "my way or the highway." They aren't going to be easier to fill now.

The school districts would figure it out. Perhaps not immediately, but fairly soon. Why? Because they're legally required to provide it. If they had to, they'd hire contractors with nurses and therapist to meet the legal requirements. And longer-term, they'd be forced to renegotiate the contract with the unions to pay SPED teachers more.

Right. They may be legally required to do so, but physically unable to do so (e.g., there are not specialized teachers to do it). In that case, the only option is to modify the law.

Laws change sometimes. In this hypothetical case, they would have to -- e.g., decreasing the skills or accreditation level of providers so the positions can be filled.

You may be satisfied with that, but I am not.

The far more likely scenario is that they'd be forced to hire much more expensive contractors to provide the service, or paying for specialized private schools, since the alternative would be getting a *federal* law changed.

Ah. So, we're okay with much higher property taxes. Fair enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why should teachers have the choice to return? Everyone else has been told to get on with it or get out. What about police force, supermarket workers, nurses and the rest. Teachers are being far to precious. Get on with the job you are paid for. Children are paying the price.

#ReopenSchools

Teachers make way more money than grocery store workers, drug store workers and CNA's.

[Anonymous]

Sheeesh, teachers make way more money and work way less hours (9 months a year and many holidays off) than service workers who have been working since March:

grocery workers, walmart workers, drug store workers, CNA's,
amazon drivers, amazon workers, fast food workers

All of the above workers come across way more people in the course of a day than a teacher.