Anne Arundel - NO special ed teachers will return

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is there such a shortage of Sped teachers?

Well, my friend, who quit who US job and moved overseas, says she is usually black and blue with bruises. She specializes in severely autistic and sometimes they lash out.

It's not an easy job.

Oh yes there is a shortage. An impossible job with low pay. And this thread should clinch the actual reason. Everything is dumped on teachers. Most of you wouldn't last 15 minutes in a classroom with all the pressure and requirements put on teachers today.

[Anonymous]

Good for them. I don't want my child to return to school yet. I think people are selfish demanding teachers go back. If your teacher gets sick, you could have subs for weeks or months, which we had and it was terrible.

[Anonymous]

With the advent of technology we can just have daycare educated level people be teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So those of you saying fire them, where are you getting new sped teachers from right now? There aren't 100s of unemployed, ready to work people with sped credentials. They can't even find enough subs on a daily basis when we aren't in a pandemic, and that has basically no qualifications. I get the frustration, but unless you want someone with no classroom education or experience teaching the neediest kids, there isn't a better option, is there?

I don't really see the downside. The teachers have worked hard to ensure schools won't open anytime soon regardless if what is done. It's true that firing/furloughing the teachers might not allow reopening, but that's already the situation that we're in.

The best way to deal with this problem long-term is to nip this in the bud now.

So you'd rather have no school than virtual school? Am I understanding that correctly? And then when school reopens eventually have no teachers to come in? That seems incredibly short sighted, but maybe I'm missing something.

Yes. Virtual school is the same as no school for SPED kids. I know this because I'm living through it right now (in MCPS).

I might be more worried about losing teachers if I wasn't so convinced that a substantial percentage would do their jobs if the alternative was losing their jobs without unemployment benefits.

That's a game of chicken, and you might not win it. That's fine, but better clearly articulate the back-up plan in case you lose the bluff.

It's less of a bluff and more of a calculated risk.

And the back-up plan is basically the status quo... As bad as that is, there's not much to lose when there's no end in sight.

So ... if those SPED teachers retire or find other jobs, and kids return to school, you're just going to be ok with the status quo continuing? A lot of SPED positions were unfilled before the pandemic -- and before you pretty much told trained professionals "my way or the highway." They aren't going to be easier to fill now.

The school districts would figure it out. Perhaps not immediately, but fairly soon. Why? Because they're legally required to provide it. If they had to, they'd hire contractors with nurses and therapist to meet the legal requirements. And longer-term, they'd be forced to renegotiate the contract with the unions to pay SPED teachers more.

[Anonymous]

SPED teachers are really in an impossible situation- DL doesn’t really work for their students, yet it will be very dangerous to be back in a class full of kids who are violent, regularly eject bodily fluids, and aren’t capable of wearing masks. If they are forced back, they should absolutely get hazard pay- like double their current salaries. Given how many SPED teachers there actually are per district, it would be a minimal cost in the long run to retain good teachers. A number of nursing homes did this- hazard pay- because many of them face similar issues, especially in the dementia wards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SPED teachers are really in an impossible situation- DL doesn’t really work for their students, yet it will be very dangerous to be back in a class full of kids who are violent, regularly eject bodily fluids, and aren’t capable of wearing masks. If they are forced back, they should absolutely get hazard pay- like double their current salaries. Given how many SPED teachers there actually are per district, it would be a minimal cost in the long run to retain good teachers. A number of nursing homes did this- hazard pay- because many of them face similar issues, especially in the dementia wards.

Completely agree. Union contract probably doesn't allow it though.

[Anonymous]

I'm a gen ed teacher and think every teacher willing to get certified and teach sped should be paid DOUBLE what the rest of us make. Sped is haaaaaaard. Just jack up taxes to pay for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So those of you saying fire them, where are you getting new sped teachers from right now? There aren't 100s of unemployed, ready to work people with sped credentials. They can't even find enough subs on a daily basis when we aren't in a pandemic, and that has basically no qualifications. I get the frustration, but unless you want someone with no classroom education or experience teaching the neediest kids, there isn't a better option, is there?

I don't really see the downside. The teachers have worked hard to ensure schools won't open anytime soon regardless if what is done. It's true that firing/furloughing the teachers might not allow reopening, but that's already the situation that we're in.

The best way to deal with this problem long-term is to nip this in the bud now.

So you'd rather have no school than virtual school? Am I understanding that correctly? And then when school reopens eventually have no teachers to come in? That seems incredibly short sighted, but maybe I'm missing something.

Yes. Virtual school is the same as no school for SPED kids. I know this because I'm living through it right now (in MCPS).

I might be more worried about losing teachers if I wasn't so convinced that a substantial percentage would do their jobs if the alternative was losing their jobs without unemployment benefits.

That's a game of chicken, and you might not win it. That's fine, but better clearly articulate the back-up plan in case you lose the bluff.

It's less of a bluff and more of a calculated risk.

And the back-up plan is basically the status quo... As bad as that is, there's not much to lose when there's no end in sight.

So ... if those SPED teachers retire or find other jobs, and kids return to school, you're just going to be ok with the status quo continuing? A lot of SPED positions were unfilled before the pandemic -- and before you pretty much told trained professionals "my way or the highway." They aren't going to be easier to fill now.

The school districts would figure it out. Perhaps not immediately, but fairly soon. Why? Because they're legally required to provide it. If they had to, they'd hire contractors with nurses and therapist to meet the legal requirements. And longer-term, they'd be forced to renegotiate the contract with the unions to pay SPED teachers more.

They aren't going to hire nurses and therapists and none of those folks will want a high risk job that pays low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is there such a shortage of Sped teachers?

There isn't. It's something unions like to claim. In reality, if there was a shortage, they'd be paid more. There is no shortage.

There is a national teacher shortage. Where are you getting that there are no shortages of SPED teachers? If it was just about pay, then teachers would be paid more, period.

Yeah, it's more complicated than that. There is a shortage, particularly in certain geographic areas and in certain subjects. More pay probably would help, but unions are probably (ironically) the main thing impeding that. They make it tough to pay, say, STEM teachers more than, say, elementary school teachers.

I think it depends on the degree. STEM teachers generally have higher degrees than ES teachers.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/fy21_mcea_salary_schedules.pdf

But generally, there are teacher shortages across the country, including sped teachers.

https://alignstaffing.com/education-staffing/why-the-shortage-in-special-education-teachers/

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/11/09/436588372/behind-the-shortage-of-special-ed-teachers-long-hours-crushing-paperwork

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should teachers have the choice to return? Everyone else has been told to get on with it or get out. What about police force, supermarket workers, nurses and the rest. Teachers are being far to precious. Get on with the job you are paid for. Children are paying the price.

#ReopenSchools

If so many other professionals can work from home and get paid for the work that they do, why can’t teachers do the same? Most of you guys are sitting at home working and getting a paycheck. But you are up in arms when teachers want to do the same? Smh

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

I am a professional who works from home, but the difference is I work with ADULTS, not children, who are fully capable of using technology to do their day-to-day jobs. In my experience, 6 year olds are not experts in using Word, PowerPoint, Zoom, or interacting only with other people via computer.

Young children were not meant to use computers all day. Are educators now condoning the use of screens for 6+ hours a day for a 6 year old? Last time I checked, I thought there was some guidance that suggested this much screen time was inappropriate for developing brains, but I'm not the expert

Have you even thought that teachers are moms, too? My SIL is one and she has elementary school kids at home. She can't leave them alone all day and the dad is overseas.

Ummm... what do millions of working moms do that work in positions that can't be done at home? You need to get childcare. There are plenty of centers open that can care for elementary children and help them with distance learning. I know, because I am in this category and can't leave my kids home alone while I DO MY JOB.

Don't forget, school is not daycare!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So those of you saying fire them, where are you getting new sped teachers from right now? There aren't 100s of unemployed, ready to work people with sped credentials. They can't even find enough subs on a daily basis when we aren't in a pandemic, and that has basically no qualifications. I get the frustration, but unless you want someone with no classroom education or experience teaching the neediest kids, there isn't a better option, is there?

I don't really see the downside. The teachers have worked hard to ensure schools won't open anytime soon regardless if what is done. It's true that firing/furloughing the teachers might not allow reopening, but that's already the situation that we're in.

The best way to deal with this problem long-term is to nip this in the bud now.

So you'd rather have no school than virtual school? Am I understanding that correctly? And then when school reopens eventually have no teachers to come in? That seems incredibly short sighted, but maybe I'm missing something.

Yes. Virtual school is the same as no school for SPED kids. I know this because I'm living through it right now (in MCPS).

I might be more worried about losing teachers if I wasn't so convinced that a substantial percentage would do their jobs if the alternative was losing their jobs without unemployment benefits.

That's a game of chicken, and you might not win it. That's fine, but better clearly articulate the back-up plan in case you lose the bluff.

It's less of a bluff and more of a calculated risk.

And the back-up plan is basically the status quo... As bad as that is, there's not much to lose when there's no end in sight.

So ... if those SPED teachers retire or find other jobs, and kids return to school, you're just going to be ok with the status quo continuing? A lot of SPED positions were unfilled before the pandemic -- and before you pretty much told trained professionals "my way or the highway." They aren't going to be easier to fill now.

The school districts would figure it out. Perhaps not immediately, but fairly soon. Why? Because they're legally required to provide it. If they had to, they'd hire contractors with nurses and therapist to meet the legal requirements. And longer-term, they'd be forced to renegotiate the contract with the unions to pay SPED teachers more.

They aren't going to hire nurses and therapists and none of those folks will want a high risk job that pays low.

That's why I said the school system would likely need to contract it out to companies that would ultimately pay their staff more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is there such a shortage of Sped teachers?

There isn't. It's something unions like to claim. In reality, if there was a shortage, they'd be paid more. There is no shortage.

There is a national teacher shortage. Where are you getting that there are no shortages of SPED teachers? If it was just about pay, then teachers would be paid more, period.

Yeah, it's more complicated than that. There is a shortage, particularly in certain geographic areas and in certain subjects. More pay probably would help, but unions are probably (ironically) the main thing impeding that. They make it tough to pay, say, STEM teachers more than, say, elementary school teachers.

I think it depends on the degree. STEM teachers generally have higher degrees than ES teachers.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/uploadedFiles/departments/ersc/employees/pay/schedules/fy21_mcea_salary_schedules.pdf

But generally, there are teacher shortages across the country, including sped teachers.

https://alignstaffing.com/education-staffing/why-the-shortage-in-special-education-teachers/

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/11/09/436588372/behind-the-shortage-of-special-ed-teachers-long-hours-crushing-paperwork

My understanding is that Masters of Education degrees are pretty common at all levels with younger teachers, since they're relative easy programs compared to other graduate degrees. I assume they get paid like a M.S. in a STEM field.

Fwiw, I think SPED teachers should get substantial pay increases. I understand it is an incredibly demanding job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So those of you saying fire them, where are you getting new sped teachers from right now? There aren't 100s of unemployed, ready to work people with sped credentials. They can't even find enough subs on a daily basis when we aren't in a pandemic, and that has basically no qualifications. I get the frustration, but unless you want someone with no classroom education or experience teaching the neediest kids, there isn't a better option, is there?

I don't really see the downside. The teachers have worked hard to ensure schools won't open anytime soon regardless if what is done. It's true that firing/furloughing the teachers might not allow reopening, but that's already the situation that we're in.

The best way to deal with this problem long-term is to nip this in the bud now.

So you'd rather have no school than virtual school? Am I understanding that correctly? And then when school reopens eventually have no teachers to come in? That seems incredibly short sighted, but maybe I'm missing something.

For these kids in particular, virtual school really is the same as, or even worse, than no school.
These are the most high-needs special ed schools in the county. We’re not talking Larla with dyslexia or adhd.
I can’t imagine how ot and pt and basic life skills are all that useful on a computer screen.

[Anonymous]

I do know several families that would rather have no school than virtual school. Their children cannot do virtual school so they are having meltdowns, sometimes violent, every day. Yet they are required to have their kids attend. The parents are in danger of losing their jobs. They can't hire anyone to help because of covid. Their kids can't go to learning "pods" even if they had the money.

This is a ridiculous situation. Private school teachers have gone back with small classrooms. Why can't special needs teachers go back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why should teachers have the choice to return? Everyone else has been told to get on with it or get out. What about police force, supermarket workers, nurses and the rest. Teachers are being far to precious. Get on with the job you are paid for. Children are paying the price.

#ReopenSchools

If so many other professionals can work from home and get paid for the work that they do, why can’t teachers do the same? Most of you guys are sitting at home working and getting a paycheck. But you are up in arms when teachers want to do the same? Smh

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.

I am a professional who works from home, but the difference is I work with ADULTS, not children, who are fully capable of using technology to do their day-to-day jobs. In my experience, 6 year olds are not experts in using Word, PowerPoint, Zoom, or interacting only with other people via computer.

Young children were not meant to use computers all day. Are educators now condoning the use of screens for 6+ hours a day for a 6 year old? Last time I checked, I thought there was some guidance that suggested this much screen time was inappropriate for developing brains, but I'm not the expert

Have you even thought that teachers are moms, too? My SIL is one and she has elementary school kids at home. She can't leave them alone all day and the dad is overseas.

Ummm... what do millions of working moms do that work in positions that can't be done at home? You need to get childcare. There are plenty of centers open that can care for elementary children and help them with distance learning. I know, because I am in this category and can't leave my kids home alone while I DO MY JOB.

Don't forget, school is not daycare!

Seems school is childcare when the parent is a teacher. Cause they don’t get paid enough to afford it, or something.