Mayor Bowser and renaming or removing monuments

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes! I agree with the PP in hoping the rest of the world will become woke too!

All the castles in Europe should be removed, you know that pesky feudalism. I mean Henry VIII was great at keeping a peasant down and simply removing his wives from existence.

The Great Pyramids need to good. We all know who build those, ahem.

Great Wall of China, 400,000 dead in its construction. Gotta go.

Certainly Russia has a lot of work to do with Stalin and Marx glorifications.

And you know that Statue of Freedom that sits atop the Capitol? A nice Jefferson Davis project.

Literally everything had got to go. Recontextualization Now!

Well paid, highly regarded laborers built the Pyramids.

[Anonymous]

Don’t forget Woodrow Wilson was an unrepentant racist!

[Anonymous]

Idiots.

Stop looking for perfect moral characters in history and vilifying them when they aren't while ignoring all of the positive benefits they may have contributed. No one is perfect. Presentism is biased. What are they gonna do in the year 2100, demonize a character like Henry Ford because he mass produced cars that contributed to global warming while ignoring all of the good he did for modernization and building the middle class? Presentism is always a very slippery slope. Maybe you all will be viewed as ass backwards heathens a century from now because of your use of fossil fuels and belief in religion when future societies become much more secular.

[Anonymous]

Henry Ford was also a huge anti-Semite who’s company was in bed with the Nazis.

[Anonymous]

Subaru was formally called Nakajima whose products fed the Japanese war machine in its subjugation of the Asia-Pacific and whose factories were staffed by enslaved Koreans, Chinese, and others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Henry Ford was also a huge anti-Semite who’s company was in bed with the Nazis.

And yet tons of bombers for USAF to crush the Nazis were built in ford factories. Like any other historical character, henry ford is flawed, which is why it is ridiculous to apply presentism.

[Anonymous]

Anybody concerned that it did not occur to Bowser to remove that page regarding property over which she has no authority prior to its public release?
Not a super intelligent move.

Perhaps she should value the education of D.C.'s children over her own national profile and her shot in Biden's Cabinet?

Education is not a priority for her. That should worry every parent in this city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Subaru was formally called Nakajima whose products fed the Japanese war machine in its subjugation of the Asia-Pacific and whose factories were staffed by enslaved Koreans, Chinese, and others.

Same for Toyota, which built engines to put into planes the Japanese used on Chinese civilians for target practice. BMW, Volkswagen and Mercedes all have Nazi ties. That doesn't stop Americans from all ethnic backgrounds from having voracious appetites for those cars. The US is a gigantic market for Toyota, and even Chinese Americans drive Toyotas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes! I agree with the PP in hoping the rest of the world will become woke too!

All the castles in Europe should be removed, you know that pesky feudalism. I mean Henry VIII was great at keeping a peasant down and simply removing his wives from existence.

The Great Pyramids need to good. We all know who build those, ahem.

Great Wall of China, 400,000 dead in its construction. Gotta go.

Certainly Russia has a lot of work to do with Stalin and Marx glorifications.

And you know that Statue of Freedom that sits atop the Capitol? A nice Jefferson Davis project.

Literally everything had got to go. Recontextualization Now!

Well paid, highly regarded laborers built the Pyramids.

Whoever believes Alexander Graham Bell should be stricken should immediately give up their phones.

In fact, I'm starting to think that it's fine for us to critique these folks, but if we want to entirely erase them we should be required to "give back" their achievements too. Take down the Washington Monument? FINE. Invite the British back. Dont like the name on the Jefferson Memorial?? Great. Rip up the Constitution (maybe the FACES Report team can "rewrite" it). Etc.

That just makes your seem like a moron, whose opinions on anything is suspect. The best thing we can with history is take the good and leave the bad. Alexander Graham Bell invented the phone, which is great, he also supported eugenics which is bad! I don't have to support eugenics because I've got a phone and I don't have to think Bell High School should be named for him because I've got a phone either. Who we erect monuments to, name schools after, etc., will always change as we change who from the past we think is worth commemorating, but that's not the same as pretending the past didn't happen. Equating the two is dumb.

The best thing we can do with history is learn not to repeat the same mistakes. Every time you remove a piece of history because it’s “bad” makes the lessons worthless. We can look at the past through our 2020 eyes. As much as you may hate this, historical figures lived in different times with different perspectives. They do not have the advantage of foresight like you have the advantage of hindsight.

This is why there are still portions of concentration camps in Germany. The Germans want to wipe this history from their world. Some will consider these monuments because they are white nationalist. Most seem them as atrocious and abhorrent. Regardless, you can’t erase bad history. We to remember why it was bad. But we also need to acknowledge what was good. The two are not mutually exclusive.

But the Germans didn't leave Swastikas up on their buildings, because they understand the difference between remembering the history and commemorating the Nazis. That example doesn't make the point you think it does. Erasing public commemoration doesn't erase history. This point is very well explained if you listen to actual historians on this: https://www.historians.org/news-and-advocacy/aha-advocacy/aha-statement-on-confederate-monuments

(The "they didn't have the benefit of hindsight" argument is, as ever, garbage. "Slavery is wrong" isn't just a 2020 value; plenty of people knew it was wrong in 1776, the slaves for one, but white people too. The immorality of slavery wasn't unknowable to George Washington)

Had you remotely understood my point you would never need to reference Swastikas. Of course they didn’t leave them up.

It’s a shame that in 250 years you won’t be around to judge the “History of the 21st Century.” And we are only 20 years into it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes! I agree with the PP in hoping the rest of the world will become woke too!

All the castles in Europe should be removed, you know that pesky feudalism. I mean Henry VIII was great at keeping a peasant down and simply removing his wives from existence.

The Great Pyramids need to good. We all know who build those, ahem.

Great Wall of China, 400,000 dead in its construction. Gotta go.

Certainly Russia has a lot of work to do with Stalin and Marx glorifications.

And you know that Statue of Freedom that sits atop the Capitol? A nice Jefferson Davis project.

Literally everything had got to go. Recontextualization Now!

Well paid, highly regarded laborers built the Pyramids.

Whoever believes Alexander Graham Bell should be stricken should immediately give up their phones.

In fact, I'm starting to think that it's fine for us to critique these folks, but if we want to entirely erase them we should be required to "give back" their achievements too. Take down the Washington Monument? FINE. Invite the British back. Dont like the name on the Jefferson Memorial?? Great. Rip up the Constitution (maybe the FACES Report team can "rewrite" it). Etc.

That just makes your seem like a moron, whose opinions on anything is suspect. The best thing we can with history is take the good and leave the bad. Alexander Graham Bell invented the phone, which is great, he also supported eugenics which is bad! I don't have to support eugenics because I've got a phone and I don't have to think Bell High School should be named for him because I've got a phone either. Who we erect monuments to, name schools after, etc., will always change as we change who from the past we think is worth commemorating, but that's not the same as pretending the past didn't happen. Equating the two is dumb.

The best thing we can do with history is learn not to repeat the same mistakes. Every time you remove a piece of history because it’s “bad” makes the lessons worthless. We can look at the past through our 2020 eyes. As much as you may hate this, historical figures lived in different times with different perspectives. They do not have the advantage of foresight like you have the advantage of hindsight.

This is why there are still portions of concentration camps in Germany. The Germans want to wipe this history from their world. Some will consider these monuments because they are white nationalist. Most seem them as atrocious and abhorrent. Regardless, you can’t erase bad history. We to remember why it was bad. But we also need to acknowledge what was good. The two are not mutually exclusive.

But the Germans didn't leave Swastikas up on their buildings, because they understand the difference between remembering the history and commemorating the Nazis. That example doesn't make the point you think it does. Erasing public commemoration doesn't erase history. This point is very well explained if you listen to actual historians on this: https://www.historians.org/news-and-advocacy/aha-advocacy/aha-statement-on-confederate-monuments

(The "they didn't have the benefit of hindsight" argument is, as ever, garbage. "Slavery is wrong" isn't just a 2020 value; plenty of people knew it was wrong in 1776, the slaves for one, but white people too. The immorality of slavery wasn't unknowable to George Washington)

Had you remotely understood my point you would never need to reference Swastikas. Of course they didn’t leave them up.

It’s a shame that in 250 years you won’t be around to judge the “History of the 21st Century.” And we are only 20 years into it.

Claiming I didn't understand your argument isn't a response or even an explanation of what you believe. I'm not particularly bothered by your sneering though, because I'm actually a trained historian. I understand what it means to "erase bad history" and I understand that renaming public high schools doesn't come close. I posted the AHA statement above and it's genuinely worth reading. There's nuance that's not only possible, but necessary here, but you never get it from the self appointed defenders of history (who also all seem to subscribe to the same historical myths like the Pyramids being built by slaves or Stonehenge by the Druids, it's weird how little interest y'all seem to have in actual history)

[Anonymous]

Harvard’s roll in creating napalm specifically to firebomb cities and roast as many civilians as possible is well documented.

[Anonymous]

What's wing with knowing the good alongside the bad about people? Why is that so controversial?

[Anonymous]

wing=wrong, ugh

[Anonymous]

The DuPont Trust made huge sums of money smuggling weapons and technology into Nazi Germany, greatly assisting Hitler in rebuilding the German military.