Athleticism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will tell you from our NBA players like Alen Iverson if he would have soley been exposed and trained to play soccer he would be the greatest American soccer player of all time.

I don’t know why you just picked him.

If our fastest and most agile NFL players had just soccer to play as a sport since childhood, the USA would be incredible and dominant. Some players have 4.2 secs 40 yard dash speeds. It might be a little slower with the ball, but you know what I mean.

+1 but not necessarily for the 4.2 speed. The coordination, the agility, the quickness. Many kids in the US make the choice to play WR or DB instead of soccer because of the culture. Imagine if that were flipped en masse.

This may increase the size of the player pool, but it won't make a big difference. If soccer was primarily about athleticism and speed, Jamaica would dominate, but they don't. When Spain won the World Cup, did they win it by out sprinting everyone? Were they stacked with blazing fast players? When Germany won four years later, did they win because they were the fastest team in the tournament? Absolutely not. Even France, which was probably the most athletic of recent WC winners, had a mix of players with different level of athleticism (Mbappe was incredibly fast, while Giroud was quite slow). They won because they had a great level of technical skill, tactical discipline, solid defense and several creative players (Mbappe, Pogba, Griezmann, etc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will tell you from our NBA players like Alen Iverson if he would have soley been exposed and trained to play soccer he would be the greatest American soccer player of all time.

I don’t know why you just picked him.

If our fastest and most agile NFL players had just soccer to play as a sport since childhood, the USA would be incredible and dominant. Some players have 4.2 secs 40 yard dash speeds. It might be a little slower with the ball, but you know what I mean.

+1 but not necessarily for the 4.2 speed. The coordination, the agility, the quickness. Many kids in the US make the choice to play WR or DB instead of soccer because of the culture. Imagine if that were flipped en masse.

This may increase the size of the player pool, but it won't make a big difference. If soccer was primarily about athleticism and speed, Jamaica would dominate, but they don't. When Spain won the World Cup, did they win it by out sprinting everyone? Were they stacked with blazing fast players? When Germany won four years later, did they win because they were the fastest team in the tournament? Absolutely not. Even France, which was probably the most athletic of recent WC winners, had a mix of players with different level of athleticism (Mbappe was incredibly fast, while Giroud was quite slow). They won because they had a great level of technical skill, tactical discipline, solid defense and several creative players (Mbappe, Pogba, Griezmann, etc).

What makes you think that our very best athletes can't learn the traits you mention. Agreed that flipping the culture is a great help, that's why I stated it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will tell you from our NBA players like Alen Iverson if he would have soley been exposed and trained to play soccer he would be the greatest American soccer player of all time.

I don’t know why you just picked him.

If our fastest and most agile NFL players had just soccer to play as a sport since childhood, the USA would be incredible and dominant. Some players have 4.2 secs 40 yard dash speeds. It might be a little slower with the ball, but you know what I mean.

+1 but not necessarily for the 4.2 speed. The coordination, the agility, the quickness. Many kids in the US make the choice to play WR or DB instead of soccer because of the culture. Imagine if that were flipped en masse.

This may increase the size of the player pool, but it won't make a big difference. If soccer was primarily about athleticism and speed, Jamaica would dominate, but they don't. When Spain won the World Cup, did they win it by out sprinting everyone? Were they stacked with blazing fast players? When Germany won four years later, did they win because they were the fastest team in the tournament? Absolutely not. Even France, which was probably the most athletic of recent WC winners, had a mix of players with different level of athleticism (Mbappe was incredibly fast, while Giroud was quite slow). They won because they had a great level of technical skill, tactical discipline, solid defense and several creative players (Mbappe, Pogba, Griezmann, etc).

What makes you think that our very best athletes can't learn the traits you mention. Agreed that flipping the culture is a great help, that's why I stated it.

Because making art with your feet is not easy. And Americans sadly aren’t playing it on the streets, and at recess in school, and in the parks with friends and neighbors. If you think you can become a superstar with “travel” soccer practices and games then you’re delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will tell you from our NBA players like Alen Iverson if he would have soley been exposed and trained to play soccer he would be the greatest American soccer player of all time.

I don’t know why you just picked him.

If our fastest and most agile NFL players had just soccer to play as a sport since childhood, the USA would be incredible and dominant. Some players have 4.2 secs 40 yard dash speeds. It might be a little slower with the ball, but you know what I mean.

+1 but not necessarily for the 4.2 speed. The coordination, the agility, the quickness. Many kids in the US make the choice to play WR or DB instead of soccer because of the culture. Imagine if that were flipped en masse.

This may increase the size of the player pool, but it won't make a big difference. If soccer was primarily about athleticism and speed, Jamaica would dominate, but they don't. When Spain won the World Cup, did they win it by out sprinting everyone? Were they stacked with blazing fast players? When Germany won four years later, did they win because they were the fastest team in the tournament? Absolutely not. Even France, which was probably the most athletic of recent WC winners, had a mix of players with different level of athleticism (Mbappe was incredibly fast, while Giroud was quite slow). They won because they had a great level of technical skill, tactical discipline, solid defense and several creative players (Mbappe, Pogba, Griezmann, etc).

What makes you think that our very best athletes can't learn the traits you mention. Agreed that flipping the culture is a great help, that's why I stated it.

Because making art with your feet is not easy. And Americans sadly aren’t playing it on the streets, and at recess in school, and in the parks with friends and neighbors. If you think you can become a superstar with “travel” soccer practices and games then you’re delusional.

Again, is the culture were flipped, the athletes would flip and they would be playing it in the streets. The issues are intrinsically related. Can't have one without the other.

If that were the case, the US would be unstoppable, as much as that may break your heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every parent with delusional thoughts always what about Messi? He was an unbelievable athlete at 8 years old!!!!! Why don't we see more American Messis? We have plenty but they choose to play basketball or American football. The top Athletes in most of the world have soccer as their choice sport. Our top athletes play basketball or football. Could you imagine if you had given John Wall a soccer ball and had him in year round club soccer at age 8? he would be playing up 2-3 years by the time he was 12. If you take the basketball away and work with him with a soccer ball only from age 8 he would be a top 5 player in the world. he has proven to be a superior athlete and has ball handling skills amongst the best in world. There is no reason to think given the same training he wouldn't be a top technical soccer player.

I wish every person who makes the same “our best athletes play x” argument would first watch this:

https://youtu.be/8COaMKbNrX0

The video is not relevant at all to our discussion. It says players today are faster than yesteryear. So? We can all give you lists of current fast/agile NLF and NBA players. And remember, these NFL and NBA players learned the sport on TV and playing in the street/playgrounds too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will tell you from our NBA players like Alen Iverson if he would have soley been exposed and trained to play soccer he would be the greatest American soccer player of all time.

I don’t know why you just picked him.

If our fastest and most agile NFL players had just soccer to play as a sport since childhood, the USA would be incredible and dominant. Some players have 4.2 secs 40 yard dash speeds. It might be a little slower with the ball, but you know what I mean.

+1 but not necessarily for the 4.2 speed. The coordination, the agility, the quickness. Many kids in the US make the choice to play WR or DB instead of soccer because of the culture. Imagine if that were flipped en masse.

This may increase the size of the player pool, but it won't make a big difference. If soccer was primarily about athleticism and speed, Jamaica would dominate, but they don't. When Spain won the World Cup, did they win it by out sprinting everyone? Were they stacked with blazing fast players? When Germany won four years later, did they win because they were the fastest team in the tournament? Absolutely not. Even France, which was probably the most athletic of recent WC winners, had a mix of players with different level of athleticism (Mbappe was incredibly fast, while Giroud was quite slow). They won because they had a great level of technical skill, tactical discipline, solid defense and several creative players (Mbappe, Pogba, Griezmann, etc).

You know how hard it is to learn/practice soccer skills & moves on the beach sand? LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will tell you from our NBA players like Alen Iverson if he would have soley been exposed and trained to play soccer he would be the greatest American soccer player of all time.

I don’t know why you just picked him.

If our fastest and most agile NFL players had just soccer to play as a sport since childhood, the USA would be incredible and dominant. Some players have 4.2 secs 40 yard dash speeds. It might be a little slower with the ball, but you know what I mean.

Again, Americans looking at combine numbers as some kind of qualifier. Do you know how many combine heroes wash out of the NFL every year, many never see significant playing time.

Everyone is fast but you need more than just speed.

This is why we are so bad at soccer.

Daryl Green, Dion Sanders, Tyreek Hill, and many many other products ie NFL superstars and not just combine numbers.

[Anonymous]

Here's what Cruyff said about Pep Guardiola (as a player):

Barça wanted to get rid of him [Guardiola]. They considered him scrawny, bad defensively and ineffective in the air. What nobody saw was that he had the basic qualities to go far: he had game intelligence, speed in his execution, technique. If I hadn't been at Barcelona, for sure he would have been sold to a Segunda Division club.

How many Guardiolas, Xavis, and Iniestas sit on the benches around the DMV because they make the correct play, which is sometimes to pass the ball sideways or back? A ton.

And don't tell me that if the NBA played soccer USA would be world-beaters. The best American player is 5'9" and 160. The best player in the world is smaller. You think other countries don't have athletes?

Shut up.

Player pool size? There are 11 million people in Belgium and 3 million youth soccer players in the United States. Our pool is plenty big enough.

Our model sucks. Clubs are funded by parents, who want. to. see. their. kids. win. There is no incentive to develop players. Even if they do develop a pro-caliber player, it's just until the kid gets a bigger opportunity and leaves the club.

Europe works because good coaches teach kids how to play--all kids who want to--and make their money developing players. That's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's what Cruyff said about Pep Guardiola (as a player):

Barça wanted to get rid of him [Guardiola]. They considered him scrawny, bad defensively and ineffective in the air. What nobody saw was that he had the basic qualities to go far: he had game intelligence, speed in his execution, technique. If I hadn't been at Barcelona, for sure he would have been sold to a Segunda Division club.

How many Guardiolas, Xavis, and Iniestas sit on the benches around the DMV because they make the correct play, which is sometimes to pass the ball sideways or back? A ton.

And don't tell me that if the NBA played soccer USA would be world-beaters. The best American player is 5'9" and 160. The best player in the world is smaller. You think other countries don't have athletes?

Shut up.

Player pool size? There are 11 million people in Belgium and 3 million youth soccer players in the United States. Our pool is plenty big enough.

Our model sucks. Clubs are funded by parents, who want. to. see. their. kids. win. There is no incentive to develop players. Even if they do develop a pro-caliber player, it's just until the kid gets a bigger opportunity and leaves the club.

Europe works because good coaches teach kids how to play--all kids who want to--and make their money developing players. That's it.

Every word of this ^^^

[Anonymous]

The facts remain travel soccer in the USA is a protected suburban white kid sport . If we put our resources in to developing our urban kids travel soccer as we know it would go away. But our ability to compete on a world level would level up.

[Anonymous]

It is all of the above.

1) kid’s playing endless hours on the streets, playgrounds, and backyards.
2) culture of watching, living, and loving soccer
3) parents and coaches that really know the game
4) top, dedicated, addicted athletes that do nothing but practice.

In other words, what basketball and football is here in the US, soccer is in Europe and South America.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is all of the above.

1) kid’s playing endless hours on the streets, playgrounds, and backyards.
2) culture of watching, living, and loving soccer
3) parents and coaches that really know the game
4) top, dedicated, addicted athletes that do nothing but practice.

In other words, what basketball and football is here in the US, soccer is in Europe and South America.

Perfect Summary. The only thing missing is the La Masia type businesses where they pick kids, raise/develop their skills then sell/trade them like cattle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is all of the above.

1) kid’s playing endless hours on the streets, playgrounds, and backyards.
2) culture of watching, living, and loving soccer
3) parents and coaches that really know the game
4) top, dedicated, addicted athletes that do nothing but practice.

In other words, what basketball and football is here in the US, soccer is in Europe and South America.

Perfect Summary. The only thing missing is the La Masia type businesses where they pick kids, raise/develop their skills then sell/trade them like cattle.

Or La Fabrica. Let’s not forget the best and most achieving club in the world. They’re talents rarely make it to the team due to the pressure it involves being a first team player at Real Madrid. But, when it happens you are guaranteed to see top everything.

Iker Casillas
Raúl González Blanco
Daniel Carvajal
Casemiro
Llorente
Emilio Butragueño
Manolo Sanchís
Míchel
Guti
Chendo
Santiago Bernabéu

If you look at the list of players that left Madrid and still are top players then it’d be endless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what Cruyff said about Pep Guardiola (as a player):

Barça wanted to get rid of him [Guardiola]. They considered him scrawny, bad defensively and ineffective in the air. What nobody saw was that he had the basic qualities to go far: he had game intelligence, speed in his execution, technique. If I hadn't been at Barcelona, for sure he would have been sold to a Segunda Division club.

How many Guardiolas, Xavis, and Iniestas sit on the benches around the DMV because they make the correct play, which is sometimes to pass the ball sideways or back? A ton.

And don't tell me that if the NBA played soccer USA would be world-beaters. The best American player is 5'9" and 160. The best player in the world is smaller. You think other countries don't have athletes?

Shut up.

Player pool size? There are 11 million people in Belgium and 3 million youth soccer players in the United States. Our pool is plenty big enough.

Our model sucks. Clubs are funded by parents, who want. to. see. their. kids. win. There is no incentive to develop players. Even if they do develop a pro-caliber player, it's just until the kid gets a bigger opportunity and leaves the club.

Europe works because good coaches teach kids how to play--all kids who want to--and make their money developing players. That's it.

Every word of this ^^^

Agree. We have the player pool to succeed already. We don’t have the skilled coaches, the professional training environment, or the financial incentives, though the latter is changing somewhat with the pathway to Germany that has opened up the last few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's what Cruyff said about Pep Guardiola (as a player):

Barça wanted to get rid of him [Guardiola]. They considered him scrawny, bad defensively and ineffective in the air. What nobody saw was that he had the basic qualities to go far: he had game intelligence, speed in his execution, technique. If I hadn't been at Barcelona, for sure he would have been sold to a Segunda Division club.

How many Guardiolas, Xavis, and Iniestas sit on the benches around the DMV because they make the correct play, which is sometimes to pass the ball sideways or back? A ton.

And don't tell me that if the NBA played soccer USA would be world-beaters. The best American player is 5'9" and 160. The best player in the world is smaller. You think other countries don't have athletes?

Shut up.

Player pool size? There are 11 million people in Belgium and 3 million youth soccer players in the United States. Our pool is plenty big enough.

Our model sucks. Clubs are funded by parents, who want. to. see. their. kids. win. There is no incentive to develop players. Even if they do develop a pro-caliber player, it's just until the kid gets a bigger opportunity and leaves the club.

Europe works because good coaches teach kids how to play--all kids who want to--and make their money developing players. That's it.

Every word of this ^^^

Agree. We have the player pool to succeed already. We don’t have the skilled coaches, the professional training environment, or the financial incentives, though the latter is changing somewhat with the pathway to Germany that has opened up the last few years.

We haven't tapped into our player pool. If we put together a quality affordable program with our best coaches. Set it up in most of our lower income urban areas and ran it successfully for 10 years. Then we could start to reap the rewards of our homegrown talent. We would be a top 5 soccer power in the world. Instead we based off of capitalism have our best funded programs privatized and set up to profit. Where do you make the biggest profit ? White suburbia of course, Its also slim Pickens when it come to athletic talent.