RSM or AoPS -- which one?

[Anonymous]

how representative are RSM summer programs? DC is at a summer RSM program, after being tested, and it's way too easy for her. a lot of kids at the remedial level, which slows everyone down. we are debating which fall program to take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:how representative are RSM summer programs? DC is at a summer RSM program, after being tested, and it's way too easy for her. a lot of kids at the remedial level, which slows everyone down. we are debating which fall program to take.

Talk to RSM and ask for your child to be moved into the next level. If your child is doing well on the in class assessments and the Teacher sees that they are finishing up work quickly the school is likely to move your cild up a level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just to get a leg-up without paying out of the wazoo, which one is better?

None, you should do it because your child is interested and not to get a leg up in math.

If your child is interested, It depends on what type of program fits your child.

Least helpful post evah.
Might as well say "you're not parenting correctly, but to answer your question... it depends"

As many people have said in this thread and every RSM vs AoPS vs Kumon thread on the site, the programs are different and meet kids needs differently.

DS has done AoPS and RSM. He did well in both programs. He loves RSMs math competition class and is dropping RSMs grade level in person class. The last few years the RSM grade level classes have not been challenging, he is in the honors class, and this last year the school refused to move him up a level. There is no need to pay for him to be bored. The math competition class is challenging, he loves that class and he is continuing on with it.

AoPS is less about teaching foundational material, which RSM does i all of its levels, and more about working on creative solutions and playing with math. The class expects students to grasp content quickly and moves quickly. DS took the class in-person online during COVID. There were kids clearly struggling, the Teacher asked the same few kids to stay online after the class ended to review material. There were kids who needed the entire class period to grasp the material. And there were kids who were able to do all the work assigned and play with some of the harder problems that were offered when they completed work. I would say half the kids in that class would have been better off at RSM because they needed someone to explain the concepts in more depth and review that material.

DS is doing the online, discussion board AoPS summer math competition class. He said that there have been some tricky problems and that the instructor has been good in providing written explinations of how to solve them and the logic behind the solutions. He has a ways to go to finish the class but the first few sessions went well. I would imagine that this class is only good for kids who have a pretty solid foundation and grasp material well independently. I cannot see someone who needs a good amount of help doing well in a chat based class, but that is me.

And kids should be doing this because they are interested in math and not because their parents want them to get a leg up. AoPS or RSM must be miserable for a kid who is there because their parents make them go. The classes are long, 90-120 minutes and there is homework. The material is not easy and works best for a kid who is engaged and wants to participate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:how representative are RSM summer programs? DC is at a summer RSM program, after being tested, and it's way too easy for her. a lot of kids at the remedial level, which slows everyone down. we are debating which fall program to take.

Talk to RSM and ask for your child to be moved into the next level. If your child is doing well on the in class assessments and the Teacher sees that they are finishing up work quickly the school is likely to move your cild up a level.

should i push for change in the summer class or for the fall class? i don't want to be the parent who thinks her child is a genius. i understand how that interferes with teacher's judgment. my child has some significant gaps in math knowledge, however, she learns quickly and doesn't need so many basic examples to grasp a concept. i am surprised how many kids in the class struggle, several are in HS yet got much lower scores on the test, which she showed me and which was pretty easy. all they have done in class are the very basic problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:how representative are RSM summer programs? DC is at a summer RSM program, after being tested, and it's way too easy for her. a lot of kids at the remedial level, which slows everyone down. we are debating which fall program to take.

Talk to RSM and ask for your child to be moved into the next level. If your child is doing well on the in class assessments and the Teacher sees that they are finishing up work quickly the school is likely to move your cild up a level.

should i push for change in the summer class or for the fall class? i don't want to be the parent who thinks her child is a genius. i understand how that interferes with teacher's judgment. my child has some significant gaps in math knowledge, however, she learns quickly and doesn't need so many basic examples to grasp a concept. i am surprised how many kids in the class struggle, several are in HS yet got much lower scores on the test, which she showed me and which was pretty easy. all they have done in class are the very basic problems.

Talk to her Teacher and get her input. I believe that all the levels teach the concept, they differ in how long they stay on on a concept and how challenging the problems are using the concept. I would ask now and see what the Teacher thinks.

[Anonymous]

Are you new to RSM? They usually do not move a kid up to the next grade level unless they knows the kid well.

DS was able to move the next grade level after successfully finish the grade level honor class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For parents who have their children in either of the programs, what do you like about the program? My DD is in RSM, but wondering if AoPS would be better.

Please refrain from turning this into a diatribe about how coaching and prepping is unnecessary--you know nothing about why we're doing it so don't bother with the negativity--and stick to the original question being asked, otherwise I will ask JSteele to remove your comment. Thanks for playing by the forum rules!

I’m a math teacher, and in general I think RSM is for parents that want their kids to be good at math (but the kids might not already be great at it) and AoPS is for kids who are already very strong at math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say AoPS because my kids have gone to RSM and currently take AoPS and the reason why, is because RSM teaches you about basic math you-need-to-know things in contrast to AoPS, which stretches things apart and go into very deep explanations. My kids complained how the RSM portal was always acting weirdly, but know the AoPS homework is set up differently. You can do alcumus, which is just math practice to make your grades go higher, and the homework is challenging and the solutions are well explained.

were your kids in the competition RSM classes? Those are the most rigorous

The competition classes is not the issue. The issue is that AOPS only has 1 level and it’s the highest level. It’s for kids very good in math, at the top of their class and need more challenge. It’s not for anyone else. They move fast and expect you to keep up. They expect you to already grasp the basics and go deep and complex right away. All the gifted kids do AOPS. But most kids are not gifted, just above average smart.

RSM is traditional school math. They focus more on what kids are learning in class and the foundations. They don’t go as deep or stretch the kids. They have multiple levels so can accommodate all kids, even the ones struggling. The higher classes at RSM goes faster but still covers foundational material.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say AoPS because my kids have gone to RSM and currently take AoPS and the reason why, is because RSM teaches you about basic math you-need-to-know things in contrast to AoPS, which stretches things apart and go into very deep explanations. My kids complained how the RSM portal was always acting weirdly, but know the AoPS homework is set up differently. You can do alcumus, which is just math practice to make your grades go higher, and the homework is challenging and the solutions are well explained.

were your kids in the competition RSM classes? Those are the most rigorous

The competition classes is not the issue. The issue is that AOPS only has 1 level and it’s the highest level. It’s for kids very good in math, at the top of their class and need more challenge. It’s not for anyone else. They move fast and expect you to keep up. They expect you to already grasp the basics and go deep and complex right away. All the gifted kids do AOPS. But most kids are not gifted, just above average smart.

RSM is traditional school math. They focus more on what kids are learning in class and the foundations. They don’t go as deep or stretch the kids. They have multiple levels so can accommodate all kids, even the ones struggling. The higher classes at RSM goes faster but still covers foundational material.

RSM does stretch kids, they do that in the math competition class that you have to test into. You can take just the competition class, DS is doing just that this year. The competition class is closer to what AoPS classes are. The difference is that the RSM competition class has fewer students who need additional support then my DSs AoPS class had. Both his AoPS class and his RSM competition class have been online with video instruction and we have listened in to both classes. About 1/4 of the AoPS kids in his class needed additional time with the Teacher or additional explanations and were not able to provide a successful solution for many of the problems they worked. the RSM Competition class has not had that issue.

Last year I noticed that RSM has added level 1 and level 2 competition math classes. It also has the National Math Competition class that students have to be nominated to participate in. The NMCP is essentially a year advanced of the regular MCP. It looks to me like RSM understands that there is a desire for kids to participate in competitions and is expanding their class base to meet the demand, which includes more of an intro to math competition class for each grade level and the regular class that kids can build to. NMCP is advertised as limited to 200 students per grade level but I suspect that they will adjust that number of there are enough people willing to pay for the program.

The RSM grade level classes are of varying difficulty levels. My child was not challenged in Honors, last year was a diasaster because the Honors class was moving really, really slowly. DS was bored to tears and it was the first year they did not simply move him into the next grade level, which they had done the last 2 years. I had the distinct impression that there were kids who belonged in the Advanced class that had been moved into Honors and simply didn't belong there. It was bad enough that DS asked to not do the grade level class and just participate in NMCP, which we are fine with. DS is enjoying his online AoPS Mat Competition class. He says that it is challenging and that the homework isn't easy. This makes him happy and us happy. The class is also more targeted to Math Counts and the AMC 8. RSM's MCP classes are broader based and focus on developing skills that are used in Math Counts and the AMC tests and the other high school based National tests.

If you have a child that needs to firm up their math base, RSM is a great option. If you have a child who wants to play with math, AoPS and RSM have options that can meet their needs. One of the biggest pros to our family is RSM has branches in many places allowing for in person classes, which is what DS wanted. The MCP classes were in person at the location we attended. AoPS has very few locations and is far less convenient. The only RSM class that DS was willing to participate in virtually was the NMCP which is virtual for obvious reasons.

We have not used Kumon, Mathnasium, Curie or any other math enrichment program so I cannot speak to those programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say AoPS because my kids have gone to RSM and currently take AoPS and the reason why, is because RSM teaches you about basic math you-need-to-know things in contrast to AoPS, which stretches things apart and go into very deep explanations. My kids complained how the RSM portal was always acting weirdly, but know the AoPS homework is set up differently. You can do alcumus, which is just math practice to make your grades go higher, and the homework is challenging and the solutions are well explained.

were your kids in the competition RSM classes? Those are the most rigorous

The higher classes at RSM goes faster but still covers foundational material.

How can you make this claim when you haven't had kids in their highest (competition) classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say AoPS because my kids have gone to RSM and currently take AoPS and the reason why, is because RSM teaches you about basic math you-need-to-know things in contrast to AoPS, which stretches things apart and go into very deep explanations. My kids complained how the RSM portal was always acting weirdly, but know the AoPS homework is set up differently. You can do alcumus, which is just math practice to make your grades go higher, and the homework is challenging and the solutions are well explained.

were your kids in the competition RSM classes? Those are the most rigorous

The competition classes is not the issue. The issue is that AOPS only has 1 level and it’s the highest level. It’s for kids very good in math, at the top of their class and need more challenge. It’s not for anyone else. They move fast and expect you to keep up. They expect you to already grasp the basics and go deep and complex right away. All the gifted kids do AOPS. But most kids are not gifted, just above average smart.

RSM is traditional school math. They focus more on what kids are learning in class and the foundations. They don’t go as deep or stretch the kids. They have multiple levels so can accommodate all kids, even the ones struggling. The higher classes at RSM goes faster but still covers foundational material.

RSM does stretch kids, they do that in the math competition class that you have to test into. You can take just the competition class, DS is doing just that this year. The competition class is closer to what AoPS classes are. The difference is that the RSM competition class has fewer students who need additional support then my DSs AoPS class had. Both his AoPS class and his RSM competition class have been online with video instruction and we have listened in to both classes. About 1/4 of the AoPS kids in his class needed additional time with the Teacher or additional explanations and were not able to provide a successful solution for many of the problems they worked. the RSM Competition class has not had that issue.

Last year I noticed that RSM has added level 1 and level 2 competition math classes. It also has the National Math Competition class that students have to be nominated to participate in. The NMCP is essentially a year advanced of the regular MCP. It looks to me like RSM understands that there is a desire for kids to participate in competitions and is expanding their class base to meet the demand, which includes more of an intro to math competition class for each grade level and the regular class that kids can build to. NMCP is advertised as limited to 200 students per grade level but I suspect that they will adjust that number of there are enough people willing to pay for the program.

The RSM grade level classes are of varying difficulty levels. My child was not challenged in Honors, last year was a diasaster because the Honors class was moving really, really slowly. DS was bored to tears and it was the first year they did not simply move him into the next grade level, which they had done the last 2 years. I had the distinct impression that there were kids who belonged in the Advanced class that had been moved into Honors and simply didn't belong there. It was bad enough that DS asked to not do the grade level class and just participate in NMCP, which we are fine with. DS is enjoying his online AoPS Mat Competition class. He says that it is challenging and that the homework isn't easy. This makes him happy and us happy. The class is also more targeted to Math Counts and the AMC 8. RSM's MCP classes are broader based and focus on developing skills that are used in Math Counts and the AMC tests and the other high school based National tests.

If you have a child that needs to firm up their math base, RSM is a great option. If you have a child who wants to play with math, AoPS and RSM have options that can meet their needs. One of the biggest pros to our family is RSM has branches in many places allowing for in person classes, which is what DS wanted. The MCP classes were in person at the location we attended. AoPS has very few locations and is far less convenient. The only RSM class that DS was willing to participate in virtually was the NMCP which is virtual for obvious reasons.

We have not used Kumon, Mathnasium, Curie or any other math enrichment program so I cannot speak to those programs.

Which specific AoPS competition class is he doing? You should also check out Epsilon camp/Mathpath for next summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you new to RSM? They usually do not move a kid up to the next grade level unless they knows the kid well.

DS was able to move the next grade level after successfully finish the grade level honor class.

My kid was moved up two years in a row. They did nt move him up last year because it was a jump from pre-algebra to algebra and they were being overly cautious. We dropped the regular class for this coming year because he was bored stiff last year in the grade level honors class. He will continue their National Math Competition Class which is a grade year ahead of the local program.

We have known a good number of kids at the program who were bumped up a year. Most times they will move an Honors kid into the next grade levels Advanced group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say AoPS because my kids have gone to RSM and currently take AoPS and the reason why, is because RSM teaches you about basic math you-need-to-know things in contrast to AoPS, which stretches things apart and go into very deep explanations. My kids complained how the RSM portal was always acting weirdly, but know the AoPS homework is set up differently. You can do alcumus, which is just math practice to make your grades go higher, and the homework is challenging and the solutions are well explained.

were your kids in the competition RSM classes? Those are the most rigorous

The competition classes is not the issue. The issue is that AOPS only has 1 level and it’s the highest level. It’s for kids very good in math, at the top of their class and need more challenge. It’s not for anyone else. They move fast and expect you to keep up. They expect you to already grasp the basics and go deep and complex right away. All the gifted kids do AOPS. But most kids are not gifted, just above average smart.

RSM is traditional school math. They focus more on what kids are learning in class and the foundations. They don’t go as deep or stretch the kids. They have multiple levels so can accommodate all kids, even the ones struggling. The higher classes at RSM goes faster but still covers foundational material.

RSM does stretch kids, they do that in the math competition class that you have to test into. You can take just the competition class, DS is doing just that this year. The competition class is closer to what AoPS classes are. The difference is that the RSM competition class has fewer students who need additional support then my DSs AoPS class had. Both his AoPS class and his RSM competition class have been online with video instruction and we have listened in to both classes. About 1/4 of the AoPS kids in his class needed additional time with the Teacher or additional explanations and were not able to provide a successful solution for many of the problems they worked. the RSM Competition class has not had that issue.

Last year I noticed that RSM has added level 1 and level 2 competition math classes. It also has the National Math Competition class that students have to be nominated to participate in. The NMCP is essentially a year advanced of the regular MCP. It looks to me like RSM understands that there is a desire for kids to participate in competitions and is expanding their class base to meet the demand, which includes more of an intro to math competition class for each grade level and the regular class that kids can build to. NMCP is advertised as limited to 200 students per grade level but I suspect that they will adjust that number of there are enough people willing to pay for the program.

The RSM grade level classes are of varying difficulty levels. My child was not challenged in Honors, last year was a diasaster because the Honors class was moving really, really slowly. DS was bored to tears and it was the first year they did not simply move him into the next grade level, which they had done the last 2 years. I had the distinct impression that there were kids who belonged in the Advanced class that had been moved into Honors and simply didn't belong there. It was bad enough that DS asked to not do the grade level class and just participate in NMCP, which we are fine with. DS is enjoying his online AoPS Mat Competition class. He says that it is challenging and that the homework isn't easy. This makes him happy and us happy. The class is also more targeted to Math Counts and the AMC 8. RSM's MCP classes are broader based and focus on developing skills that are used in Math Counts and the AMC tests and the other high school based National tests.

If you have a child that needs to firm up their math base, RSM is a great option. If you have a child who wants to play with math, AoPS and RSM have options that can meet their needs. One of the biggest pros to our family is RSM has branches in many places allowing for in person classes, which is what DS wanted. The MCP classes were in person at the location we attended. AoPS has very few locations and is far less convenient. The only RSM class that DS was willing to participate in virtually was the NMCP which is virtual for obvious reasons.

We have not used Kumon, Mathnasium, Curie or any other math enrichment program so I cannot speak to those programs.

Which specific AoPS competition class is he doing? You should also check out Epsilon camp/Mathpath for next summer.

He is doing the Math Counts/AMC 8 Advanced Prep. We are starting to look at more advanced math summer camps. We also know that he really enjoys programs that are not focused on one thing for 8 hours. He has enjoyed the NoVA STEM program but said that he wished that the day was a bit more broken up. He has done a cap at Ideavations that he really liked. They had the STEM part as most of the day but also had a book club, a game break, and made time for a hike or some other type of physical activity. He is the same way with more active summer camps. He did not like the sports specific camps, even in the sports that he loves, beacuse it is too much of one thing for him. He loved a generic sports camp were they played 4 different games/sports during the day.

[Anonymous]

We recently switched DD to AOPS after a year at RSM. RSM initially placed her in the 4th grade "Accelerated" class (lowest of three levels based on a <5 min zoom discussion/assessment which asked about just a single concept DD had not previously been exposed to). I spent six months telling them it was too basic and DD was getting bored. RSM's responses were limited/unhelpful and were obviously not individualized and just stock answers they provide to parents. Half way through the year we had her do AOPS' Beast Academy (level 4 and then 5) in parallel and she felt far more interested/challenged in the material. At the end of the year, RSM invited us to enroll DD in the NMCP competition program (and 5th grade honors) after she placed very high in the RSM's IMC competition, but by that point we decided to migrate fully to AOPS Online and enroll DD in Prealgebra instead.

Generally speaking, I would say AOPS has been more flexible with scheduling and responsive to my questions (this is all new to me, and I am trying to keep my children excited with a subject they clearly enjoy). RSM was the opposite and often different individuals I spoke to were unaware (and unwilling) to help determine the appropriate classes (and interconnectivity between core and competition classes).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For parents who have their children in either of the programs, what do you like about the program? My DD is in RSM, but wondering if AoPS would be better.

Please refrain from turning this into a diatribe about how coaching and prepping is unnecessary--you know nothing about why we're doing it so don't bother with the negativity--and stick to the original question being asked, otherwise I will ask JSteele to remove your comment. Thanks for playing by the forum rules!

We have done both for one child and only AoPS for our older DD.

1. RSM adv- it’s has 3 levels for each class so u can get tested and placed accordingly.

2. RSM disadvantage- very dependent on the center you attend. I feel like the parents speaking Russian were getting more out of the center than we did. There was poor communication from teacher or principal for the 1.5 years we attended. The teaching was decent but many times my child’s incorrect answers or questions were not necessarily answered ( due to time).

3. AoPS- we have only done the online version- because both our DC are very responsible and have good attention spans. The adv here is late evening classes- no driving them anywhere. Our class had no video - only chat classes- so kids can be in their PJs and have dinner right before class. All this helps when you have two kids with multiple activities and busy work schedules.

AoPS- is definitely challenging - and the weekly homework has detailed answers provided, if you get the question wrong. This is very helpful for the child- we did not get this at RSMa it falls on your child to raise his hand to ask teacher to explain something he got wrong.

In all, we are very happy with our online AoPS class and would recommend them.