You are tentatively eligible for this series/grade but not referred

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the reply, but just to add a little extra info, the position my wife is applying for is an HR position. It is in the Intel community and she is actually working the position now which they are turning into a GS position. The exact same position in other building across the same compound using the exact same resume was referred not 1 month prior. That particular position though we knew was going to be more competitive simply because of the in house applicants. This position she IS the in house applicant and is using the same resume. The hiring manager, her boss, loves her, so she has a great chance of getting hired if her resume gets through. I always hear people trying to defend the system as not being shady, yet every person I know who has one of these jobs admits as much if you know them. No way her resume makes it through for a duplicate job but not this one. The position is literally designed around her qualifications because she IS the SME. We have worked extremely hard to get her resume to show her experience and qualifications and have it ensure it matches the job posting. That work paid off on the duplicate job across the compound. We are just scratching our heads as to why it didn't seem to be enough for this announcement.

Something happened, because I don't see that many people applying for this specialized position to out score her to the point of her not even being referred. I guess we will see soon. We aren't going to just let this one slide like we have the others with a, "well that's just how it is" answer. I was more curious if anyone has experience with this sort of reply from USAJOBS. Tentatively eligible but then not referred. What does that even mean? I seems they come up with new and creative ways to deny people all of the time.

Sorry you are so frustrated, but your statement in bold shows you don’t understand how the federal hiring process works. It is a different posting, so no telling how many candidates applied, what the cutoff for the cert is (99/100? 95/100?) PP explained some of this. There are literally dozens of “ways” in which this posting is different from any other. Your best bet is to contact HR for the position in which she was not referred, see if they will reconsider or at least provide an explanation. It is necessarily something nefarious going on here.

Its the exact same job. EXACT same job. Different building. Prior to listing these jobs they have a PD that is created that determines what points apply to what position. Both positions were the same. When you work in HR you are often a part of the planning committees for these newly created positions so you know what goes into creating them. Thanks though for your input, although I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish.

Again, it is a DIFFERENT POSTING. Doesn’t matter if it is the same job in the SAME building reporting to the SAME manager. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? This new posting, even for the “same” job, could have received 3x as many applications- just one example of how circumstances can be vastly different. I have accomplished an attempt to provide advice which you sought by posting to this forum. Just because you are dissatisfied with the answer doesn’t make this any less true how the process is likely playing out in your case.

Um ok, so lets say 10000000000 people apply, then what? Who gets preference? What is the cutoff for the number of applications that can be sent forward? Are they making decisions for the hiring manager if all 10000000000 people who applied have the same resume? You see these are the questions you seem to not know how to answer. I would gladly take your advice but you aren't providing any. You are simply saying the posting is different, so therefore she may not be referred even though she has max preference points. So who gets referred in those situations? Someone in HR decides whose resume they like better? An actual person looks at the resumes and decides who they want to refer even if they both have similar qualifications and preference? You see the problem I have with this is how this invisible wall is put up between the applicant and the hiring manager and the ones controlling access to the door to this wall have a variety of rules they can apply as their whim.

The real problem is that your wife did not claim a preference *at the time of application* that you now feel she is eligible for. I’m not sure why you are blaming everyone else for your mistake; there has not been any incorrect action on the part of HR thus far so I am not sure why you are so combative. No one is applying rules on a whim. The HR person did not know your wife had this preference (if she even does) and others claimed it at the time of application. Simple as that.

Umm, I haven't blamed anyone here. Maybe you should work on not taking simply questions so personal. And again, since you haven't seen her application, how do you know she didn't claim the preference at the time of the application? Because Im here to tell you, SHE DID. That is why I am here asking questions. Get it yet? This isn't the first application she has submitted. I get it, you think there is no way anyone could possibly fill out these applications properly, but she actually did. Now we know that for a fact. She was denied because they gave military spouses applying preference, even though her application clearly states she is a spouse of a 100 percent disabled veteran and was claiming that preference. HR even acknowledged this and still tried to say it didn't matter because military spouse preference trumped her disabled spouse preference. So my question was, how is this so when the spouse preference clearly includes spouses who are married to 100 percent disabled veterans.

PP you responded to. I will ignore how incredibly rude you are being to me and others. So your wife applied for Military Spouse Preference and submitted all of the paperwork with her application? Like someone else said, it’s a non-competitive hiring authority and even could have been on a separate, concurrent announcement. Often times positions are announced consecutively under competitive and non-competitive hiring authorities.

I think what people are pointing out is that you are assuming that the HR person is doing something wrong or not considering your wife’s preference, when in fact no one knows if she claimed it correctly, is actually eligible for it after review of her claim, or if there was a separate announcement for special hiring authorities altogether.

*announced concurrently, not consecutively. Post-Christmas brain.

Ok, but none of you have the announcement so you don't know. So instead of telling me you need more information about the announcement or clarify some of the different scenarios , you just choose to attack me and then say I'm the one being rude. I mean read some of these peoples responses to me. I can't even believe how some of you are acting. Yet you think its me? WTF

Well you have the announcement, so tell us if she specifically applied for MSP. It does not sound like it. You haven’t been articulate not clear about many of the details, so what you perceive as people attacking you is their way of trying to get to the bottom of the actual situation (which now looks very different than it did your first post).

Yes she did, but it wasn't as a military spouse. Its labeled and everyone calls it military spouse preference but it also included spouses of 100 percent disabled veterans. I just haven't been able to find anything to verify their initial response saying they cannot refer ANY applications to the hiring manager if a military spouse preference candidate applies. They are literally saying that its against the law for them to refer anyone else if a military spouse applies. Their exact wording is " By law, qualified Priority Program Preference for Military Spouses block all new appointments to the Federal government, which this would have been a new appointment for you." There are two problems with this statement, first off, I can't find where it states that military spouse preference BLOCKS all other applicants, and the second problem is the Executive order which gives military spouses this preference also includes spouses of 100 percent disabled veterans. I just don't understand why they didn't include her into this category. Even if they didn't, where does it say in writing that PPP for Military spouses BLOCKS all other applicants? Can I at least get that information?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would consider posting on bogleheads. Lots of super smart folks over there.

Never heard of it, but I was actually trying to post at Fedsoup but it takes a few days to get the registration accepted to even post.

[Anonymous]

OP, I like that you say between you and your wife that you're the one who has a way with words, yet you use terms like "butt hurt." It makes you sound like an absolute idiot, even though you must be at least in your 40s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I like that you say between you and your wife that you're the one who has a way with words, yet you use terms like "butt hurt." It makes you sound like an absolute idiot, even though you must be at least in your 40s.

Ok. Thanks for your input. You don't really need to continue to try and insult me any longer. If you don't have any answers or nothing constructive to add to the conversation, then kindly move on. My age matters in what way? I mean how else would you like me to word it? Was it you that was having a panic attack over me researching information for my wife? Why do you have such a problem with me saying I have a way with words? Is that insulting to you in some way? If so, why? Maybe this can be a sort of counseling session for you since you clearly have some anger issues regarding people posting on this forum.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I would consider posting on bogleheads. Lots of super smart folks over there.

Never heard of it, but I was actually trying to post at Fedsoup but it takes a few days to get the registration accepted to even post.

Bogleheads is amazing. Primarily for financial advice but also some smart folks for career advice. In many ways a far superior forum to DCUM but with a much narrower focus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well you have the announcement, so tell us if she specifically applied for MSP. It does not sound like it. You haven’t been articulate not clear about many of the details, so what you perceive as people attacking you is their way of trying to get to the bottom of the actual situation (which now looks very different than it did your first post).

Yes she did, but it wasn't as a military spouse. Its labeled and everyone calls it military spouse preference but it also included spouses of 100 percent disabled veterans. I just haven't been able to find anything to verify their initial response saying they cannot refer ANY applications to the hiring manager if a military spouse preference candidate applies. They are literally saying that its against the law for them to refer anyone else if a military spouse applies. Their exact wording is " By law, qualified Priority Program Preference for Military Spouses block all new appointments to the Federal government, which this would have been a new appointment for you." There are two problems with this statement, first off, I can't find where it states that military spouse preference BLOCKS all other applicants, and the second problem is the Executive order which gives military spouses this preference also includes spouses of 100 percent disabled veterans. I just don't understand why they didn't include her into this category. Even if they didn't, where does it say in writing that PPP for Military spouses BLOCKS all other applicants? Can I at least get that information?

NP jumping in. For the bolded part above, is it possible she was found ineligible for the military spouses preference due to the date of your documentation of 100% disability? Seems like there may be a 2 year time window to use that eligibility. See third condition listed here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/hiring-information/veterans-authorities/#url=Conditions

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:
Well you have the announcement, so tell us if she specifically applied for MSP. It does not sound like it. You haven’t been articulate not clear about many of the details, so what you perceive as people attacking you is their way of trying to get to the bottom of the actual situation (which now looks very different than it did your first post).

Yes she did, but it wasn't as a military spouse. Its labeled and everyone calls it military spouse preference but it also included spouses of 100 percent disabled veterans. I just haven't been able to find anything to verify their initial response saying they cannot refer ANY applications to the hiring manager if a military spouse preference candidate applies. They are literally saying that its against the law for them to refer anyone else if a military spouse applies. Their exact wording is " By law, qualified Priority Program Preference for Military Spouses block all new appointments to the Federal government, which this would have been a new appointment for you." There are two problems with this statement, first off, I can't find where it states that military spouse preference BLOCKS all other applicants, and the second problem is the Executive order which gives military spouses this preference also includes spouses of 100 percent disabled veterans. I just don't understand why they didn't include her into this category. Even if they didn't, where does it say in writing that PPP for Military spouses BLOCKS all other applicants? Can I at least get that information?

NP jumping in. For the bolded part above, is it possible she was found ineligible for the military spouse non-competive hiring authority due to the date of your documentation of 100% disability? Seems like there may be a 2 year time window to use that eligibility. See third condition listed here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/hiring-information/veterans-authorities/#url=Conditions

same “np” that jumped in. I corrected my language to be a bit more clear, now italicized. That’s what we’re talking about, right? She applied through the military spouse non-hiring authority path?

[Anonymous]

How can the OP be 100% disabled. Given his ability to post and communicate here, file a FOIA, and research federal hiring rules, seems like he could easily hold an office job. “Disability” is complete BS.

[Anonymous]

Is it possible that let’s say 50 people with the same preference level as your wife applied but they were capped to only refer 20? Maybe other applicants were already with gs experience, or had like a masters degree versus bachelors or had more years experience? Hang in there. It can take forever to get a government gs job. What is the big benefit to converting to a gs position over her current status?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How can the OP be 100% disabled. Given his ability to post and communicate here, file a FOIA, and research federal hiring rules, seems like he could easily hold an office job. “Disability” is complete BS.

I thought the same. I don’t know how some people can live with themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How can the OP be 100% disabled. Given his ability to post and communicate here, file a FOIA, and research federal hiring rules, seems like he could easily hold an office job. “Disability” is complete BS.

If OP has service-related disabilities it’s entirely possible that he’s unable to hold an office job. You clearly have no idea how difficult it is for Veterans to get this rating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well you have the announcement, so tell us if she specifically applied for MSP. It does not sound like it. You haven’t been articulate not clear about many of the details, so what you perceive as people attacking you is their way of trying to get to the bottom of the actual situation (which now looks very different than it did your first post).

Yes she did, but it wasn't as a military spouse. Its labeled and everyone calls it military spouse preference but it also included spouses of 100 percent disabled veterans. I just haven't been able to find anything to verify their initial response saying they cannot refer ANY applications to the hiring manager if a military spouse preference candidate applies. They are literally saying that its against the law for them to refer anyone else if a military spouse applies. Their exact wording is " By law, qualified Priority Program Preference for Military Spouses block all new appointments to the Federal government, which this would have been a new appointment for you." There are two problems with this statement, first off, I can't find where it states that military spouse preference BLOCKS all other applicants, and the second problem is the Executive order which gives military spouses this preference also includes spouses of 100 percent disabled veterans. I just don't understand why they didn't include her into this category. Even if they didn't, where does it say in writing that PPP for Military spouses BLOCKS all other applicants? Can I at least get that information?

NP jumping in. For the bolded part above, is it possible she was found ineligible for the military spouses preference due to the date of your documentation of 100% disability? Seems like there may be a 2 year time window to use that eligibility. See third condition listed here: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/hiring-information/veterans-authorities/#url=Conditions

Thanks for that link, there is a lot of good information there. So my confusion with this is that the information mostly only discusses military spouses. You can only find one reference to the spouse of a disabled veteran, and even the forms you would fill out to be a part of this program have no mention of spouses of 100 percent disabled veterans. She hasn't filled out any special forms to be a part of this because there are no forms to regarding spouses of 100 percent disabled veterans. They do however have to include a DD-214 and the letter from the VA stating the disability rating. It is possible my wife didn't include our marriage certificate, but there doesn't appear to be a 2 year window that applies to spouses of disabled veterans, that only seems to apply to spouses of active duty soldiers on PCS orders.

With all that said I have a huge BUT, because HR has specifically told us that they cannot by law refer any applicants to the hiring authority that would result in a new position within the government when there is an eligible military spouse applying. Yet everything I see within OPMs own rules and even reading the EO says otherwise. I personally think it doesn't matter because my wife fits in both categories, but even if she didn't how can they not still at least refer her to the hiring authority? OPM says this.


Do military spouses have a hiring preference under these provisions? View less
No. Military spouses eligible under this authority do not have a hiring preference by virtue of their eligibility under these provisions. This appointing authority merely provides for non-competitive entry into the competitive service. It does not constitute, establish, or convey a hiring preference.

Do eligible spouses have selection priority under these provisions? View less
No. Eligible spouses do not have a selection priority over other qualified applicants under these provisions. This appointing authority allows for eligible individuals to be considered and selected for Federal jobs; however it does not convey selection priority to eligible spouses.
This authority is an additional non-competitive hiring tool which agencies may use to select qualified, eligible individuals. Agencies are not required to use this hiring authority, nor does it take precedence over the use of other appointment mechanisms.

If a military spouse, who is a preference eligible, is competing against an eligible spouse who is not a preference eligible, must agencies apply veterans' preference and pass-over procedures when making a selection under this authority? View less
No. Because this authority is a non-competitive hiring mechanism and veterans' preference does not apply to positions advertised via merit promotion or internal placement. The agency can select any qualified eligible spouse. Veterans' preference is not a consideration when filling positions under this authority.

So what rules are they applying when they say she can't be referred by law if she doesn't fit into this military spouse category?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How can the OP be 100% disabled. Given his ability to post and communicate here, file a FOIA, and research federal hiring rules, seems like he could easily hold an office job. “Disability” is complete BS.

I'm not sure what you are saying here. 100% disabled does not necessarily mean in a wheel chair with no use of hands legs or feet. Plus, I'm not the one applying for the job, I'm the husband doing research for my wife trying to find out why she wasn't referred and to get a better understanding on how this maze of a government hiring process works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible that let’s say 50 people with the same preference level as your wife applied but they were capped to only refer 20? Maybe other applicants were already with gs experience, or had like a masters degree versus bachelors or had more years experience? Hang in there. It can take forever to get a government gs job. What is the big benefit to converting to a gs position over her current status?

That is possible, but that is what I am trying to understand. Is there a cap and how do we find out what that cap is? Who determines this cap? I know based on conversations with my wife that they have had literally 100s of applications get referred to the hiring authority for other positions there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can the OP be 100% disabled. Given his ability to post and communicate here, file a FOIA, and research federal hiring rules, seems like he could easily hold an office job. “Disability” is complete BS.

I thought the same. I don’t know how some people can live with themselves.

I really wasn't aware that so many people posting here hadn't served in the military before. I guess that is why I'm getting so much negativity from others here, because they are likely government employees that didn't like how they had to compete with prior service and preference candidates and now hold a grudge. I guess that is also why I am so suspicious of this process because its a human sitting in that HR seat looking over resumes and deciding who gets to pass and who doesn't. Those same grudge holders are now gate keepers. They never tell you straight up why you don't get referred either, you literally have to inquire and usually multiple times to get an answer. When you do get an answer it usually includes a lot of gray areas that aren't exactly clear and concise in the application process. Its quite literally a barbaric process in regards to technology and efficiency. Failing to check one block appropriately could allow them to pass you by without even looking at the rest of your application. So you likely qualified but oops, you checked no instead of yes in that one block. That one block is usually a block that includes about 12 sentences and a lot of legal rambling and only included you in one sentence toward the bottom. I mean they offer special classes to teach you how to apply for these positions.

You want to talk about living with myself? Twenty years plus of breaking my body down into pieces and serving in multiple war zones, and now having to take a handful of pills each day just to allow me to get a few hours of sleep at night. Yeah I still exercise to some degree and can get around, but I'm not the same person I used to be, and you know what, I knew that going in. I volunteered to spend those 20 years doing the things I did because I knew at the end of the road there would be some good benefits for me and my family. I sacrificed years of my own life and quality home life with my family in order to get something good for US in the end. So no, I don't feel guilty at all, and I'm sorry you think I have something that I don't deserve.