Comparison between top colleges and university

[Anonymous]

PP missed the point. Hope they read apps more closely.

[Anonymous]

%CS from 2015 is a meaningless number. For better or worse, # CS majors has exploded across most colleges and universities. I guess students feel it is a direct path to a high paying job. Also, I don’t know any high schooler who knows prior to entering college that they want to be an academic. Most kids change their major anyway. Only one-third of students who declare a major on their college applications stick with the same major. Finally, if you are so desperate to avoid SJW, you should probably steer your kid to Tech schools such as MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, Harvey Mudd. I don’t find your spreadsheet useful at all but maybe I’m missing something.

[Anonymous]

Philosophy (humanities) and linguistics (social science) are more hardcore than anything except math or physics. STEM includes easier disciplines like bio and geology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:%CS from 2015 is a meaningless number. For better or worse, # CS majors has exploded across most colleges and universities. I guess students feel it is a direct path to a high paying job. Also, I don’t know any high schooler who knows prior to entering college that they want to be an academic. Most kids change their major anyway. Only one-third of students who declare a major on their college applications stick with the same major. Finally, if you are so desperate to avoid SJW, you should probably steer your kid to Tech schools such as MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, Harvey Mudd. I don’t find your spreadsheet useful at all but maybe I’m missing something.

I'll give you GATech, but I'm less sure of the other ones.My perception as a former Harvard undergrad was that the MIT kids were less politicized, but when they were politicized, they were way out there. Noam Chomsky fit in fine at MIT and never would have made it at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems a little over the top. Why do we care where you are targeting your kid to get in except to offer you help? Really, do you honestly think the only path to academia is from a SLAC? Just because that’s what the SLAC league tells you doesn’t mean that’s the whole truth. CS is not known as a topic to engender many to pursue advanced degrees, so pretty limited pool of academics in that topic anyway.

That spreadsheet was helpful to me. We have many of the same schools on our kid's list. I have compared numbers, but not crunched them in such a comprehensive way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Philosophy (humanities) and linguistics (social science) are more hardcore than anything except math or physics. STEM includes easier disciplines like bio and geology.

And philosophy majors are amongst the highest in SAT scores and IQ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seems a little over the top. Why do we care where you are targeting your kid to get in except to offer you help? Really, do you honestly think the only path to academia is from a SLAC? Just because that’s what the SLAC league tells you doesn’t mean that’s the whole truth. CS is not known as a topic to engender many to pursue advanced degrees, so pretty limited pool of academics in that topic anyway.

That spreadsheet was helpful to me. We have many of the same schools on our kid's list. I have compared numbers, but not crunched them in such a comprehensive way.

Those numbers are old. Not sure where the OP got them, but everything is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:%CS from 2015 is a meaningless number. For better or worse, # CS majors has exploded across most colleges and universities. I guess students feel it is a direct path to a high paying job. Also, I don’t know any high schooler who knows prior to entering college that they want to be an academic. Most kids change their major anyway. Only one-third of students who declare a major on their college applications stick with the same major. Finally, if you are so desperate to avoid SJW, you should probably steer your kid to Tech schools such as MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, Harvey Mudd. I don’t find your spreadsheet useful at all but maybe I’m missing something.

'

what evidence is there correlating the % of STEM majors with a lack or presence of SJW (whatever that stupid term means). Stanford is at 50% in the table (one of the highest), and its campus environment and politics don't seem any different than schools with a far lower percentage.

all the table helps you do is avoid schools with a high percentage of non-STEM majors.

frankly, if you think you're child is so weak-minded that some SJW is going to distract her off of your chosen path for her, well, that's a different problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:%CS from 2015 is a meaningless number. For better or worse, # CS majors has exploded across most colleges and universities. I guess students feel it is a direct path to a high paying job. Also, I don’t know any high schooler who knows prior to entering college that they want to be an academic. Most kids change their major anyway. Only one-third of students who declare a major on their college applications stick with the same major. Finally, if you are so desperate to avoid SJW, you should probably steer your kid to Tech schools such as MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, Harvey Mudd. I don’t find your spreadsheet useful at all but maybe I’m missing something.

I'll give you GATech, but I'm less sure of the other ones.My perception as a former Harvard undergrad was that the MIT kids were less politicized, but when they were politicized, they were way out there. Noam Chomsky fit in fine at MIT and never would have made it at Harvard.

Noam Chomsky is a world renown linguist. Sure he is political but that is the point. You could argue that MIT is more tolerant of different viewpoints than many other colleges and universities. And the students can more easily separate politics from academic research. Probably would also add Carnegie Mellon and Virginia Tech to the list

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:%CS from 2015 is a meaningless number. For better or worse, # CS majors has exploded across most colleges and universities. I guess students feel it is a direct path to a high paying job. Also, I don’t know any high schooler who knows prior to entering college that they want to be an academic. Most kids change their major anyway. Only one-third of students who declare a major on their college applications stick with the same major. Finally, if you are so desperate to avoid SJW, you should probably steer your kid to Tech schools such as MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, Harvey Mudd. I don’t find your spreadsheet useful at all but maybe I’m missing something.

I'll give you GATech, but I'm less sure of the other ones.My perception as a former Harvard undergrad was that the MIT kids were less politicized, but when they were politicized, they were way out there. Noam Chomsky fit in fine at MIT and never would have made it at Harvard.

Noam Chomsky is a world renown linguist. Sure he is political but that is the point. You could argue that MIT is more tolerant of different viewpoints than many other colleges and universities. And the students can more easily separate politics from academic research. Probably would also add Carnegie Mellon and Virginia Tech to the list

VT? There were two 20 page threads on here last month. One on the awfulness of VY letting kids put preferred pronouns on orientation nametages and insisting respect for kids who had preferred pronouns.

The other from a mom asking what school to avoid this. (I’ll save you 20 pages: Liberty).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:%CS from 2015 is a meaningless number. For better or worse, # CS majors has exploded across most colleges and universities. I guess students feel it is a direct path to a high paying job. Also, I don’t know any high schooler who knows prior to entering college that they want to be an academic. Most kids change their major anyway. Only one-third of students who declare a major on their college applications stick with the same major. Finally, if you are so desperate to avoid SJW, you should probably steer your kid to Tech schools such as MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, Harvey Mudd. I don’t find your spreadsheet useful at all but maybe I’m missing something.

I'll give you GATech, but I'm less sure of the other ones.My perception as a former Harvard undergrad was that the MIT kids were less politicized, but when they were politicized, they were way out there. Noam Chomsky fit in fine at MIT and never would have made it at Harvard.

Noam Chomsky is a world renown linguist. Sure he is political but that is the point. You could argue that MIT is more tolerant of different viewpoints than many other colleges and universities. And the students can more easily separate politics from academic research. Probably would also add Carnegie Mellon and Virginia Tech to the list

VT? There were two 20 page threads on here last month. One on the awfulness of VY letting kids put preferred pronouns on orientation nametages and insisting respect for kids who had preferred pronouns.

The other from a mom asking what school to avoid this. (I’ll save you 20 pages: Liberty).

I suspect his little snowflake would be surprised at Harvey Mudd as well . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:%CS from 2015 is a meaningless number. For better or worse, # CS majors has exploded across most colleges and universities. I guess students feel it is a direct path to a high paying job. Also, I don’t know any high schooler who knows prior to entering college that they want to be an academic. Most kids change their major anyway. Only one-third of students who declare a major on their college applications stick with the same major. Finally, if you are so desperate to avoid SJW, you should probably steer your kid to Tech schools such as MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, Harvey Mudd. I don’t find your spreadsheet useful at all but maybe I’m missing something.

The major %s are from the most recent version of the Common Data Sets I could find online. The 2015 data is for information that I view as of secondary importance and was conveniently available on the internet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:%CS from 2015 is a meaningless number. For better or worse, # CS majors has exploded across most colleges and universities. I guess students feel it is a direct path to a high paying job. Also, I don’t know any high schooler who knows prior to entering college that they want to be an academic. Most kids change their major anyway. Only one-third of students who declare a major on their college applications stick with the same major. Finally, if you are so desperate to avoid SJW, you should probably steer your kid to Tech schools such as MIT, Caltech, Georgia Tech, Harvey Mudd. I don’t find your spreadsheet useful at all but maybe I’m missing something.

I'll give you GATech, but I'm less sure of the other ones.My perception as a former Harvard undergrad was that the MIT kids were less politicized, but when they were politicized, they were way out there. Noam Chomsky fit in fine at MIT and never would have made it at Harvard.

Noam Chomsky is a world renown linguist. Sure he is political but that is the point. You could argue that MIT is more tolerant of different viewpoints than many other colleges and universities. And the students can more easily separate politics from academic research. Probably would also add Carnegie Mellon and Virginia Tech to the list

VT? There were two 20 page threads on here last month. One on the awfulness of VY letting kids put preferred pronouns on orientation nametages and insisting respect for kids who had preferred pronouns.

The other from a mom asking what school to avoid this. (I’ll save you 20 pages: Liberty).

I suspect his little snowflake would be surprised at Harvey Mudd as well . . .

Oh yeah. Rigor check. Not a conservative bastion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually I did this exercise primarily to show that LAC is not the opposite of STEM. DC is interested in STEM and I wanted to show options. Even back in the day, colleges seemed to divide into more "serious" students and those less so. The less serious students were generally not STEM majors.

That said, some schools seem to go out of their way to admit political activists generally of one particular persuasion. A significant percentage of these seem to think it is acceptable to shut down of those with whom they disagree. Many also try to shut down debate by calling others racist. Personally, I feel they are distractive to the whole concept of Open Inquiry, the basis of a good education. To the extent college administrations favor admitting obnoxious political activists, I would prefer DC to disfavor these schools.

A couple things. First, you’re making a big mistake here by saying that “less serious serious students” are the non-STEM. And you bias is showing. Sure, many schools have a couple of throwaway majors that are often non-STEM where weak kids flee. In my school in was Communications. Does not mean all Communications degrees are crap. You become a Philosophy Major or Lit Major and see how long you last. At a time when top med schools actively recruit humanities students with the pre-med core. And today liberal arts is much more useful. It’s kids aren’t not “African Studies”. It’s epidemiology or environmental science with a concentration in African nations and an internship with Ghana’s Health ministry or an environmental NGO in Africa during a semester overseas plus research in transmission patterns or how to broaden adoption of solar energy. It’s not a one size fits all education.

Second, the entire point of liberal arts is to put STEM and humanities and fine arts together in dorms and at meals and as friends and in some classes and let them learn from each other. That doesn’t seem to be what you want for your kid. So— and I’m not trying to be snarky here— you should not be looking at LACs. You won’t like them.

I largely agree with your first point. This is why I used the word "generally" in the last sentence of the first paragraph. This is to denote a correlation and not a statement that non-STEM majors are all not serious. As I have stated before, I am a social scientist, not in a STEM field. I understand damn well that the liberal arts promote interdisciplinary education. I've already stated why I did the analysis; there is no reason for you to infer otherwise what I want for my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College Size 75% SAT %CS %Eng %Math and Science Sum Retention Location State Acceptance Rate Student/ Teacher Ratio (2015) LAC Public Undergrad Focused
Amherst 1855 1530 5% 0% 27% 32% 96% S MA 14% 8 x x
Bowdoin 1828 1510 5% 0% 26% 31% 98% R ME 15% 9 x x
Brown 7043 1540 10% 7% 19% 36% 98% U RI 9% 11
CalTech 948 1600 24% 37% 36% 97% 98% S CA 9% 7
Carleton 2097 1520 11% 0% 33% 44% 97% R MN 23% 9 x x
Chicago 6552 1590 6% 0% 34% 40% 99% U IL 9% 11
Claremont McKenna 1324 1500 3% 0% 14% 17% 96% S CA 11% 8 x x
CMU 6947 1530 13% 25% 20% 57% 97% U PA 25% 10
Colby 2000 1430 2% 0% 22% 24% 93% R ME 28% 10 x x
Columbia 6202 1570 7% 0% 17% 24% 97% U NY 7% 15
Cornell 15182 1520 11% 17% 17% 44% 97% R NY 14% 13
Dartmouth 4417 1560 7% 8% 17% 32% 97% R NH 12% 11 x
Duke 6682 1550 12% 15% 21% 48% 98% S NC 12% 11
Emory 7086 1460 3% 0% 24% 26% 95% S GA 27% 14
Grinnell 1716 1500 8% 0% 28% 36% 93% R IA 28% 9 x x
Harvard 6788 1600 9% 4% 33% 46% 98% U MA 6% 12
Harvey Mudd 889 1560 23% 33% 28% 84% 97% S CA 14% 8 x x
Hopkins 6064 1510 5% 24% 33% 62% 97% U MD 15% 11
Macalester 2174 1450 5% 0% 24% 28% 96% U MN 41% 10 x x
Middlebury 2579 1480 5% 0% 20% 25% 96% R VT 17% 8 x x
MIT 4602 1570 31% 35% 23% 89% 99% U MA 8% 9
Northwestern 8231 1550 5% 13% 16% 34% 97% S IL 13% 12
Notre Dame 8617 1520 3% 12% 10% 25% 98% S IN 20% 10
Pitt 19330 1340 7% 14% 15% 35% 93% U PA 55% 14 x
Pomona 1679 1540 9% 0% 27% 36% 98% S CA 12% 8 x x
Princeton 5428 1600 13% 17% 17% 47% 98% S NJ 7% 9 x
Reed 1503 1470 1% 0% 28% 29% 88% S OR 35% 9 x x
Rice 3992 1550 7% 19% 16% 42% 97% U TX 15% 10
Smith 2502 ? 4% 6% 22% 32% 93% S MA 37% 10 x x
Stanford 7087 1570 18% 18% 14% 50% 99% S CA 5% 15
Swarthmore 1559 1530 13% 7% 24% 44% 97% S PA 17% 8 x x
Tufts 5643 1520 9% 10% 14% 33% 96% S MA 17% 14
UCBerkeley 30853 1490 6% 11% 19% 36% 97% U CA 16% 21 x
UCLA 31577 1440 2% 7% 24% 33% 97% U CA 19% 24 x
UPenn 10183 1540 5% 10% 15% 30% 98% U PA 11% 16
UVA 16777 1460 3% 13% 11% 27% 97% S VA 29% 17 x
Vanderbilt 6861 1570 4% 12% 15% 31% 97% U TN 13% 12
VT 31205 1320 3% 26% 12% 42% 91% R VA 71% 16 x
W&L 1829 1460 3% 1% 17% 21% 96% R VA 20% 9 x x
W&M 6377 1460 4% 0% 19% 24% 95% S VA 33% 12 x x x
WashU 7751 1550 6% 15% 20% 41% 97% U MO 17% 14
Wellesley 2534 1510 11% 0% 22% 33% 96% S MA 31% 7 x x
Williams 2073 1560 6% 0% 28% 35% 99% R MA 19% 7 x x
Yale 5964 1590 6% 6% 22% 33% 99% U CT 6% 11


So, I made this Excel file for my DC, who was of course not interested. I scoured the Common Data Sets to get percentages of students in Computer Sciences, Engineering and Math and Sciences. I thought that by maximizing these measures, one could minimize the SJW horseshit that is prevalent in some schools. Note that there are many LACs with a high percentage of STEM majors even without the availability of an engineering school.

The table may be useful for those on the various "discrimination against Asians" thread looking for smaller, high quality schools with a STEM focus. (I disagree that Asians are viewed as a URM at Midwestern LACs, but, on the other hand, they are likely not dinged for being Asian as in the Ivy League and a few East Coast LACs.) And remember, if you want your DC to be an academic, LACs are better feeder schools to grad school than is the Ivy League or big state schools. See:https://www.swarthmore.edu/institutional-research/doctorates-awarded

These numbers for the 75th percentile SAT are wrong, based on the most recent CDS. I checked 4 schools - I'm not going to check them all - and they're all wrong.

The actual 75th percentiles are

Williams - 760+790 = 1550
Amherst - 760+780 = 1540
Yale - 770+790 = 1560
Harvard - 780+800= 1580

Just FYI, in case anyone's using these numbers