Study shows that 350k/year is barely scrapping by as middle class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The point is that $350k should be a comfortable UMC income. Many people would even consider that rich. But it doesn’t go nearly as far as one would expect. That’s our exact income before bonuses. We spend more on some things, less on others, but this isn’t too far off. We have a lot of expenses to make life as two working parents, with long hours and travel, work. We spent more on a house closer in vs having long commutes. One of our kids requires expensive therapy and tutors. We eat takeout way too often bc we get home too late to cook. We have an after-school nanny to shuttle the kids to appointments and activities. Sure, we could get rid of some of these “luxuries” but then one of us would have to cut back at work and our income would decrease. It would be a different ballgame if one of us made $350k and the other SAH. But there is a high cost associated with having both parents work at relatively high paying but not very flexible job.

I am about to throw up. What's with luxuries being in quotes? How far do you expect it to go?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The point is that $350k should be a comfortable UMC income. Many people would even consider that rich. But it doesn’t go nearly as far as one would expect. That’s our exact income before bonuses. We spend more on some things, less on others, but this isn’t too far off. We have a lot of expenses to make life as two working parents, with long hours and travel, work. We spent more on a house closer in vs having long commutes. One of our kids requires expensive therapy and tutors. We eat takeout way too often bc we get home too late to cook. We have an after-school nanny to shuttle the kids to appointments and activities. Sure, we could get rid of some of these “luxuries” but then one of us would have to cut back at work and our income would decrease. It would be a different ballgame if one of us made $350k and the other SAH. But there is a high cost associated with having both parents work at relatively high paying but not very flexible job.

If you can max out retirement, minimize commute, pay for afterschool nannies and eat out all the time, that IS a comfortable UMC income. What do you think comfort is? Having a helicopter drop you at work?

[Anonymous]

You should be saving that much a year though!

If you have more than one kid and you want them to attend an elite private school (I know you'll pooh pooh this but come one, admit this is the secret dream of ALL middle class and upper class folk), you need to somehow produce over 300k dollars for each one in 18 years.

Plus pay your mortgage, pay off your own student loans, and save for retirement.

[Anonymous]

Buying new cars and luxury cars makes you poor.

Buying a bigger home than you need makes you poor.

Buying expensive name brand clothes makes you poor.

Stop buying stuff you don't need that makes you poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The point is that $350k should be a comfortable UMC income. Many people would even consider that rich. But it doesn’t go nearly as far as one would expect. That’s our exact income before bonuses. We spend more on some things, less on others, but this isn’t too far off. We have a lot of expenses to make life as two working parents, with long hours and travel, work. We spent more on a house closer in vs having long commutes. One of our kids requires expensive therapy and tutors. We eat takeout way too often bc we get home too late to cook. We have an after-school nanny to shuttle the kids to appointments and activities. Sure, we could get rid of some of these “luxuries” but then one of us would have to cut back at work and our income would decrease. It would be a different ballgame if one of us made $350k and the other SAH. But there is a high cost associated with having both parents work at relatively high paying but not very flexible job.

Once again walking that fine line between satire and earnestness. So hard to tell sometimes!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should be saving that much a year though!

If you have more than one kid and you want them to attend an elite private school (I know you'll pooh pooh this but come one, admit this is the secret dream of ALL middle class and upper class folk), you need to somehow produce over 300k dollars for each one in 18 years.

Plus pay your mortgage, pay off your own student loans, and save for retirement.

+ 1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should be saving that much a year though!

If you have more than one kid and you want them to attend an elite private school (I know you'll pooh pooh this but come one, admit this is the secret dream of ALL middle class and upper class folk), you need to somehow produce over 300k dollars for each one in 18 years.

Plus pay your mortgage, pay off your own student loans, and save for retirement.

This has never been a middle class indicator. Middle class goes to state schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree who the hell spends $400 at Old Navy every month? That is a MOUNTAIN of Old Navy clothes.

Okay I’m still on my conference call. Oldnavy.com

Mom got:
2 new fall dresses for work
New jeans
2 t-shirts
1 cardigan
1 pair of mules (NOT on sale)

Dad got:
2 crew neck t-shirts
1 long sleeve Henley
1 long sleeve button up
1 pair twill paints
4 pack of socks

Preschool Girl got:
4 pairs of leggings
2 non sale really cute tops
2 graphic t-shirts
1 cardigan
2 dresses
1 pair slip on sneakers
6 pack socks (seriously where do kids socks go?)
1 cat ear headband because she’ll love it

Baby Boy got:
2 pairs cotton pants
4 printed onesies short sleeve
2 sets long sleeve/long pant “sleep sets” that look like clothes to me



I went to checkout and realized I forgot to hit “apply” to the offered 20% off. So now the total is $329. Plenty more to spend

And they have $400 each in October/November to get new coats, gloves, mittens, hats

[Anonymous]

Yes, but per month? Who buys that many items every month at old navy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The point is that $350k should be a comfortable UMC income. Many people would even consider that rich. But it doesn’t go nearly as far as one would expect. That’s our exact income before bonuses. We spend more on some things, less on others, but this isn’t too far off. We have a lot of expenses to make life as two working parents, with long hours and travel, work. We spent more on a house closer in vs having long commutes. One of our kids requires expensive therapy and tutors. We eat takeout way too often bc we get home too late to cook. We have an after-school nanny to shuttle the kids to appointments and activities. Sure, we could get rid of some of these “luxuries” but then one of us would have to cut back at work and our income would decrease. It would be a different ballgame if one of us made $350k and the other SAH. But there is a high cost associated with having both parents work at relatively high paying but not very flexible job.

That’s your exact income *before bonuses* and it doesn’t go as far as we think?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a “stupid article.” It was vetted by FIRE proponents and they agreed with the estimates. As a family with HHI around $320K in NW DC, these estimates are spot on.

The trick is to get a job in DC or Boston, and then move to a LCOL area while continuing to telecommute with the same job. I have a few colleagues doing this and they are very happy, especially in the young kid years.

I'm sure your colleagues are thrilled to outsource the young kid years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point is that $350k should be a comfortable UMC income. Many people would even consider that rich. But it doesn’t go nearly as far as one would expect. That’s our exact income before bonuses. We spend more on some things, less on others, but this isn’t too far off. We have a lot of expenses to make life as two working parents, with long hours and travel, work. We spent more on a house closer in vs having long commutes. One of our kids requires expensive therapy and tutors. We eat takeout way too often bc we get home too late to cook. We have an after-school nanny to shuttle the kids to appointments and activities. Sure, we could get rid of some of these “luxuries” but then one of us would have to cut back at work and our income would decrease. It would be a different ballgame if one of us made $350k and the other SAH. But there is a high cost associated with having both parents work at relatively high paying but not very flexible job.

That’s your exact income *before bonuses* and it doesn’t go as far as we think?

Plus, does that PP somehow thing that *actual* middle class families don't have to both work with tight time schedules and commutes? No. Both parents working is the default condition. PP has the incredibly luxury of an after-school nanny, tutors, therapy, a shorter commute, and likely is ALSO maxing out 401ks and 529s as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The point is that $350k should be a comfortable UMC income. Many people would even consider that rich. But it doesn’t go nearly as far as one would expect. That’s our exact income before bonuses. We spend more on some things, less on others, but this isn’t too far off. We have a lot of expenses to make life as two working parents, with long hours and travel, work. We spent more on a house closer in vs having long commutes. One of our kids requires expensive therapy and tutors. We eat takeout way too often bc we get home too late to cook. We have an after-school nanny to shuttle the kids to appointments and activities. Sure, we could get rid of some of these “luxuries” but then one of us would have to cut back at work and our income would decrease. It would be a different ballgame if one of us made $350k and the other SAH. But there is a high cost associated with having both parents work at relatively high paying but not very flexible job.

You are delusional. We were in McLean just outside DC, with two intense careers, one traveling a lot. Cook 3 times/week, freeze leftovers, pack your lunch. Sport practices are usually after 6 pm and you have a short commute, so you don't need an after school nanny. We also did a lot of carpooling with the neighbors. $1.8mm gets you a large, nice home anywhere in the DMV area.

[Anonymous]

This isn't a "study" as the thread title suggests, it's a blogger's example. And bloggers get traffic by making ridiculous claims that a bazillion people like this thread go to object on all the ridiculous points.

[Anonymous]

If it's so hard to make $350k and feel forced to buy close in and hire out everything because they have to work long hours...then don't.

Go get a job managing retail or teaching or driving for UPS. You can live close to work, make 1/4 of what you make now, but you won't "have" to purchase all those luxuries. Don't worry, childcare is cheaper out here in the burbs too.

But seriously. Our household income is half what's in the budget, and we feel like we have plenty of extra money each month. We are early 30s, young kids, so no excuse of "you bought years ago". We didn't.