Not gifted, but wants to learn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An IQ of 120 puts a person in the 90th percentile for intelligence. While the NNAT and the CogAT are not IQ tests, they are meant to be proxies. A child that scores 120 on the CogAT is well above average intelligence and will probably do just fine in AAP. It is hardly an awful score.

The committee is using test scores as well as class room behavior and work to try and determine who might benefit from AAP. A kid with a 140 test score and poor class work and motivation in class might be really bright but not do well in AAP because they don't seem to be motivated in the classroom. A kid with 120 and excellent classwork and showing motivation in class might not be as intelligent as the kid with the 140 but gives the appearance of being motivated and probably in a good place to do well in AAP.

The process is not perfect but there is far more grey area in the selection process then people here want to acknowledge. test scores are one indicator of intelligence but that does not equate with being a good fit in AAP.

And there are folks who are far more driven to get their kid into AAP because they are at lower performing schools and want to move their kids into AAP because they hope to surround their kids with other kids that appear to be motivated to learn. And their are folks who are less concerned about AAP because the base school is solid and the parents are less worried about the education their kid is going to receive. And then there are the parents who see AAP as a status symbol.

These are exactly the kids that gifted programs are for. And while Fairfax has changed the name of the GT program, it still does serve these kids, better in some center schools than others.

And there are kids with 120 IQs not served in their Gen Ed programs because their teachers are working hard to help kids who are struggling to keep at grade level. So parents work to get their kids who score in the 120s into AAP so that their kids are able to be in a program that challenges them. I suspect that the parents at my kids ES are less worried about AAP is because the Gen Ed program works well for the vast majority of the kids. And I wonder if the kids whose centers are able to really focus on the 140 kids are the ones were the parents don't worry about the Gen Ed program at their school so the kids with 120s stay in the Gen Ed program.

[Anonymous]

Would private school be an option that your family would consider?

[Anonymous]

NNAT is the least important part of the package. My son got in with a 111 score. Focus on the COGAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NNAT is the least important part of the package. My son got in with a 111 score. Focus on the COGAT.

+1 I think my DS was even lower at a 105, if I remember correctly.

But, he had solid GBRS (13) with great statements like "He interacts with adults because he lacks a peer group" (He was a third grader so other AAP types were in a different class), and he got a 138 on his CoGat (I don't remember the breakdown of the scores).

NNAT is definitely least important and not a deal breaker. It was helpful to his sister, who had a 133 NNAT but only a CoGat score in the 120's (with a 131 in quantitative) and a good GBRS, so it showed overall strength with her, but I don't think it keeps anyone out of AAP if it's low.

[Anonymous]

Agree that NNAT is not that important unless it raises the package of near miss scores to above the cutoff. My one DC had a 118 on NNAT and 131 on Cogat and 141 on WISC--so quite wide gaps between. My other DC had scores that all clustered in the mid 130s. Both are in AAP. It's interesting--I would say their scores/performance/capacity are roughly equal but they come by them via quite different numbers.

[Anonymous]

Second grade is the last year of learning the basics. For kids who caught on early, it is the last boring year. for kids who took longer to learn, it the last chance before they start to really fall behind. This is true of public, private, parochial and pretty much any school that is not self-paced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By definition only 2% of kids in FCPS are gifted. And it’s not a given those kids are even in aap.

Depends on your definition, I guess.

It’s not my definition. Gifted is the top 2%. If you are letting in the top 20% of a population it’s not a gifted program. And it’s not a program full of gifted kids. Roughly 90% of those aap kids are not gifted.

That's your definition. The tests are normed so that there are scores that are two standard deviations above the mean. That's the definition that Fairfax uses. And everyone else too.

+1 A higher percentage of FCPS students are 2+ standard deviation over the mean than would be the national average. Look at the local percentages vs. national percentages associated with scores. Not surprising given that many people relocate here for high level professional positions and the average education level is post graduate. Sure, some kids in AAP have scores below, but overall the average score is more than 2 standard deviations above the national normed mean. This is the federal definition of "gifted" --the level at which schools are required to provide services to meet educational need. Don't believe all the DCUM crap and parent gossip.

The local percentages are also given a boost by all the people prepping their kids for the tests, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By definition only 2% of kids in FCPS are gifted. And it’s not a given those kids are even in aap.

Depends on your definition, I guess.

It’s not my definition. Gifted is the top 2%. If you are letting in the top 20% of a population it’s not a gifted program. And it’s not a program full of gifted kids. Roughly 90% of those aap kids are not gifted.

That's your definition. The tests are normed so that there are scores that are two standard deviations above the mean. That's the definition that Fairfax uses. And everyone else too.

+1 A higher percentage of FCPS students are 2+ standard deviation over the mean than would be the national average. Look at the local percentages vs. national percentages associated with scores. Not surprising given that many people relocate here for high level professional positions and the average education level is post graduate. Sure, some kids in AAP have scores below, but overall the average score is more than 2 standard deviations above the national normed mean. This is the federal definition of "gifted" --the level at which schools are required to provide services to meet educational need. Don't believe all the DCUM crap and parent gossip.

The local percentages are also given a boost by all the people prepping their kids for the tests, though.

Exactly. Don’t be a fool and think we just have smarter kids. 2 standard deviations is always top 2 percent. You’d be an idiot to think this county has 10x the amount of gifted kids. Sure, maybe 1.5 to 2x more. Maybe. Successful people are more likely to have IQs in the 110-130 range anyway.

These kids are prepped and the parents obsessed. It makes a huge difference. Just looking at sample questions online screw with the norms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By definition only 2% of kids in FCPS are gifted. And it’s not a given those kids are even in aap.

Depends on your definition, I guess.

It’s not my definition. Gifted is the top 2%. If you are letting in the top 20% of a population it’s not a gifted program. And it’s not a program full of gifted kids. Roughly 90% of those aap kids are not gifted.

That's your definition. The tests are normed so that there are scores that are two standard deviations above the mean. That's the definition that Fairfax uses. And everyone else too.

+1 A higher percentage of FCPS students are 2+ standard deviation over the mean than would be the national average. Look at the local percentages vs. national percentages associated with scores. Not surprising given that many people relocate here for high level professional positions and the average education level is post graduate. Sure, some kids in AAP have scores below, but overall the average score is more than 2 standard deviations above the national normed mean. This is the federal definition of "gifted" --the level at which schools are required to provide services to meet educational need. Don't believe all the DCUM crap and parent gossip.

The local percentages are also given a boost by all the people prepping their kids for the tests, though.

Exactly. Don’t be a fool and think we just have smarter kids. 2 standard deviations is always top 2 percent. You’d be an idiot to think this county has 10x the amount of gifted kids. Sure, maybe 1.5 to 2x more. Maybe. Successful people are more likely to have IQs in the 110-130 range anyway.

These kids are prepped and the parents obsessed. It makes a huge difference. Just looking at sample questions online screw with the norms.

The national norms are also tilted by many other intensive prepping cultures and on-line availability. It's not like everywhere outside of Fairfax is magically immune from test prep. What about NY, CA, wealthy suburbs of any city, gentrified areas of any city etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By definition only 2% of kids in FCPS are gifted. And it’s not a given those kids are even in aap.

Depends on your definition, I guess.

It’s not my definition. Gifted is the top 2%. If you are letting in the top 20% of a population it’s not a gifted program. And it’s not a program full of gifted kids. Roughly 90% of those aap kids are not gifted.

That's your definition. The tests are normed so that there are scores that are two standard deviations above the mean. That's the definition that Fairfax uses. And everyone else too.

+1 A higher percentage of FCPS students are 2+ standard deviation over the mean than would be the national average. Look at the local percentages vs. national percentages associated with scores. Not surprising given that many people relocate here for high level professional positions and the average education level is post graduate. Sure, some kids in AAP have scores below, but overall the average score is more than 2 standard deviations above the national normed mean. This is the federal definition of "gifted" --the level at which schools are required to provide services to meet educational need. Don't believe all the DCUM crap and parent gossip.

The local percentages are also given a boost by all the people prepping their kids for the tests, though.

Exactly. Don’t be a fool and think we just have smarter kids. 2 standard deviations is always top 2 percent. You’d be an idiot to think this county has 10x the amount of gifted kids. Sure, maybe 1.5 to 2x more. Maybe. Successful people are more likely to have IQs in the 110-130 range anyway.

These kids are prepped and the parents obsessed. It makes a huge difference. Just looking at sample questions online screw with the norms.

The national norms are also tilted by many other intensive prepping cultures and on-line availability. It's not like everywhere outside of Fairfax is magically immune from test prep. What about NY, CA, wealthy suburbs of any city, gentrified areas of any city etc.

Nothing is done before the test is published. It has nothing to do with prepping. Prepping just creates inflated results.

[Anonymous]

NYC, California, Seattle, etc all have absurdly inflated scores with even more kids scoring in the top 2% than FCPS. Anywhere that has a self contained gifted program and reasonably affluent parents has rampant prepping. The test is normed using kids who haven’t prepped. Prepping inflates the scores by 10 or more. I can’t find the article, but the author of the CogAT stated that it’s a fragile instrument, vulnerable to prepping.

[Anonymous]

Our AART indicated that she had prepared her DC for tests as well as GBRS. Likewise, two teachers in our school also got their children selected by preparing their children for the highest quality work samples. It’s foolish for people to believe that parents be it normal or FCPS teachers do not prepare their children. I am guessing that county will seek more weight on GBRS. Or open the program to more children.

[Anonymous]

I don’t find it credible that an AART would admit to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I don’t find it credible that an AART would admit to it.

AARTs don’t admit but they indicate because they are surrounded by AAP obsessed parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I don’t find it credible that an AART would admit to it.

AARTs don’t admit but they indicate because they are surrounded by AAP obsessed parents.

How did he or she indicate it?