Hardy MS

[Anonymous]

Just popped back in.

So as little as three years ago, it was "Hardy gives you a track to Wilson, but is it worth suffering through Hardy?"

Now it's "Hardy is fine, but is held back because it feeds Wilson"??

Times have changed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.


That is a ridiculous response.


Why is it ridiculous? You can't invent your own best practices to best serve your most advanced students like this. When you dumb down your curriculum for students who could reasonably aspire to attend the nation's top universities and liberal arts colleges, these kids will obviously struggle to compete down the track. Nobody would argue that banning traveling sports teams for DC teenagers would constitute best practices in preparing students to play college ball. By the same token, Honors for All constitutes weak prep for the strongest students.


I think that logic requires that we agree with your assessment of the academic trajectory of Wilson's policy; however, most DC parents would probably disagree with your assessment of HOW bad the result is. I believe most studies show that the strongest students are not noticeably adversely affected, academically, by mainstream classrooms; the only question is what opportunities to improve are they losing by being mainstreamed. I think most parents, in DC anyway, won't think that "undefined academic loss" is harmful enough to flee...at least with respect to Wilson HS, anyway. That undefined loss also does not account for the social benefit that kids gain from being in a mainstream class, especially in an urban environment.

What planet do you live on? Obviously NOT one where you have ever had a high schooler in a gen-ed DC class. Let me tell you about the "social benefits" of shoving kids who have no interest in learning into a class where the other students DO want to learn. It means that the class is endlessly disrupted by disrespectful teenagers who talk loudly with their friends, watch videos on their phones (sound on . . ) and have absolutely no interest in listening to the teacher when the teacher tells them to cease and desist such behaviors. And why should they? OSSE changed the disciplinary rules to make out of school suspensions virtually impossible, so the disruptive kids have no reason to change their behavior at all. And what do you mean that most parents in DC won't think that these losses are harmful enough to flee? They do and they have. There is a reason why charter schools now educate 45% of the DC public school population. It is because any parent paying attention knows that these types of practices do not create positive educational environments.

[Anonymous]

The problem parents don't want to talk about is that if you have reason to shoot for elite collegs (Ivies, Little Ivies, military academies, top technical programs like MIT, Cal Tech, Stanford etc.) from Wilson, you have to pay a lot, and do a lot, to supplement for all four years to have a shot. You generally even have to hire your own college counselor. The whole process is exhausting and expensive. Many simply give up and go private, go to Walls, or move to the burbs. I agree that students aiming for 2nd and 3-tier schools can be well served at Wilson. So call us names, sock-puppets, or hysterical parents, but the fact remains that AP classes aren't open to all comers at most suburban schools. Academic standards for top performers are higher, much higher, outside the by-right HS realm in the District.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.

That is a ridiculous response.

Why is it ridiculous? You can't invent your own best practices to best serve your most advanced students like this. When you dumb down your curriculum for students who could reasonably aspire to attend the nation's top universities and liberal arts colleges, these kids will obviously struggle to compete down the track. Nobody would argue that banning traveling sports teams for DC teenagers would constitute best practices in preparing students to play college ball. By the same token, Honors for All constitutes weak prep for the strongest students.

I think that logic requires that we agree with your assessment of the academic trajectory of Wilson's policy; however, most DC parents would probably disagree with your assessment of HOW bad the result is. I believe most studies show that the strongest students are not noticeably adversely affected, academically, by mainstream classrooms; the only question is what opportunities to improve are they losing by being mainstreamed. I think most parents, in DC anyway, won't think that "undefined academic loss" is harmful enough to flee...at least with respect to Wilson HS, anyway. That undefined loss also does not account for the social benefit that kids gain from being in a mainstream class, especially in an urban environment.

That’s for elementary school — certainly not for HS.

+1. The academic loss for strong students may not be substantial, but my kids are at the tippy-top academy-wise. I’m not risking it at mediocre-is-close-enough Wilson.

They already know a lot about the world and getting along with lots of different kinds of people. I place zero positive value on being in ‘mainstream’ classes in high school if they are not sufficiently academically challenging.

Well then, you are basically agreeing with the post. Not many students are in the top 2% academically, and very few public HS cater to that minority of a minority -- so, yeah, Wilson is probably not the best fit for your kids but double yeah it is really very fine for everyone else.

But as for your tidbit about your personal knowledge of the world and its people -- how can that possibly apply to your kids, when they have not yet fully lived? The environment of a big urban HS with decent academics is a great way for (almost) all kids to learn about the world, its people, and your neighbors' cultures.

Good high schools certainly serve their best students well. And are the top students less deserving of a good education from their public school than the bottom students?

[Anonymous]

Someone needs to see a shrink. Woooo-weee.

[Anonymous]

Look, would it ever be okay to say in DC, those kids at the bottom are just too hard to educate, so let’s not sorry about them?

But somehow we’ve gotten to the point where someone thinks it’s logical to say, “So we don’t serve the top 2% adequately? Oh well.”

That’s just absurd and indefensibly unfair.

[Anonymous]

^^ worry, not sorry

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem parents don't want to talk about is that if you have reason to shoot for elite collegs (Ivies, Little Ivies, military academies, top technical programs like MIT, Cal Tech, Stanford etc.) from Wilson, you have to pay a lot, and do a lot, to supplement for all four years to have a shot. You generally even have to hire your own college counselor. The whole process is exhausting and expensive. Many simply give up and go private, go to Walls, or move to the burbs. I agree that students aiming for 2nd and 3-tier schools can be well served at Wilson. So call us names, sock-puppets, or hysterical parents, but the fact remains that AP classes aren't open to all comers at most suburban schools. Academic standards for top performers are higher, much higher, outside the by-right HS realm in the District.

This is not correct. It is crazy hysterical nonsense from someone who has obviously never been through the process.

- Signed,

Parent of a Wilson grad (with numerous peers who went to Ivies and other top programs) and a current Wilson student, who will also have many peers that go to Ivies and top programs.

[Anonymous]

Crazy hysterical nonsense? Give us a break, many UMC Wilson parents pay for extra challenge and college counseling support, mostly quietly. Having been through the process, I know this all too well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Crazy hysterical nonsense? Give us a break, many UMC Wilson parents pay for extra challenge and college counseling support, mostly quietly. Having been through the process, I know this all too well.

So does every other over-privileged parent (usually white yuppies from the 80's) with too much time on their hands, across every high-income district in the United States. Don't blame Wilson for this problem, it's skewed away from the mirror you should be facing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crazy hysterical nonsense? Give us a break, many UMC Wilson parents pay for extra challenge and college counseling support, mostly quietly. Having been through the process, I know this all too well.

So does every other over-privileged parent (usually white yuppies from the 80's) with too much time on their hands, across every high-income district in the United States. Don't blame Wilson for this problem, it's skewed away from the mirror you should be facing.

It’s not true at truly solid schools. Sure, some wacky parents will push to excess, but people seek rigorous schools because they shouldn’t have to do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crazy hysterical nonsense? Give us a break, many UMC Wilson parents pay for extra challenge and college counseling support, mostly quietly. Having been through the process, I know this all too well.

So does every other over-privileged parent (usually white yuppies from the 80's) with too much time on their hands, across every high-income district in the United States. Don't blame Wilson for this problem, it's skewed away from the mirror you should be facing.

It’s not true at truly solid schools. Sure, some wacky parents will push to excess, but people seek rigorous schools because they shouldn’t have to do this.

Just move to Potomac, yo. Or apply to Walls, if your kid is smart enough to get in. Simple. Stop bashing something that's not going to happen in a non-magnet school in D.C. (or in any other urban district, for that matter).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Crazy hysterical nonsense? Give us a break, many UMC Wilson parents pay for extra challenge and college counseling support, mostly quietly. Having been through the process, I know this all too well.

So does every other over-privileged parent (usually white yuppies from the 80's) with too much time on their hands, across every high-income district in the United States. Don't blame Wilson for this problem, it's skewed away from the mirror you should be facing.

It’s not true at truly solid schools. Sure, some wacky parents will push to excess, but people seek rigorous schools because they shouldn’t have to do this.

You are breathlessly naive if you think that parents at Walls, well-regarded suburban publics, and the most exclusive and expensive private schools are not doing this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.

I think you have your answer then. Move to the suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.


That is a ridiculous response.


Why is it ridiculous? You can't invent your own best practices to best serve your most advanced students like this. When you dumb down your curriculum for students who could reasonably aspire to attend the nation's top universities and liberal arts colleges, these kids will obviously struggle to compete down the track. Nobody would argue that banning traveling sports teams for DC teenagers would constitute best practices in preparing students to play college ball. By the same token, Honors for All constitutes weak prep for the strongest students.


I think that logic requires that we agree with your assessment of the academic trajectory of Wilson's policy; however, most DC parents would probably disagree with your assessment of HOW bad the result is. I believe most studies show that the strongest students are not noticeably adversely affected, academically, by mainstream classrooms; the only question is what opportunities to improve are they losing by being mainstreamed. I think most parents, in DC anyway, won't think that "undefined academic loss" is harmful enough to flee...at least with respect to Wilson HS, anyway. That undefined loss also does not account for the social benefit that kids gain from being in a mainstream class, especially in an urban environment.

What planet do you live on? Obviously NOT one where you have ever had a high schooler in a gen-ed DC class. Let me tell you about the "social benefits" of shoving kids who have no interest in learning into a class where the other students DO want to learn. It means that the class is endlessly disrupted by disrespectful teenagers who talk loudly with their friends, watch videos on their phones (sound on . . ) and have absolutely no interest in listening to the teacher when the teacher tells them to cease and desist such behaviors. And why should they? OSSE changed the disciplinary rules to make out of school suspensions virtually impossible, so the disruptive kids have no reason to change their behavior at all. And what do you mean that most parents in DC won't think that these losses are harmful enough to flee? They do and they have. There is a reason why charter schools now educate 45% of the DC public school population. It is because any parent paying attention knows that these types of practices do not create positive educational environments.

What makes you think this doesn't happen in many charters too?