Hardy MS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time to deep-six the uniforms, though. The uniforms seems like a relic of when Hardy was more of an inner-city school.

Stop repeating it. I don't think of inner-city schools when I see the uniforms, I think of private schools. Can't help it.
Only the private school kids wear uniforms back at home.

Many private school students wear uniforms here too. And Latin, which has been a preferred alternative destination for Hardy IB families for many years, has virtually the same uniform as Hardy.

[Anonymous]

Does anybody know the rough IB/OOB split at hardy by grade? Is the 6th grade different from the 8th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anybody know the rough IB/OOB split at hardy by grade? Is the 6th grade different from the 8th?

Some math that may or may not answer your question.

The claim at the beginning of the year was 90% feeder (which isn't the same as IB).
Last year there were 163 6th graders, so that means that about 145 feeder students.
There were only 149 7th graders and 139 8th graders.

At the feeders, here are the numbers of 5th graders:
Eaton Elementary School: 61
Hyde-Addison Elementary School @ Meyer: 33
Key Elementary School: 45
Stoddert Elementary School: 51
Mann Elementary School 43
Total: 233

If prior year trends hold, then say 145 of these students move on to Hardy.

Now in the lottery this year, Hardy opened up 20 seats for the 6th grade class, but none for the 7th or 8th grade classes. This will mean that about 90% of Hardy 6th grade will be feeder. IF last years IB pattern continues. It looks like DCPS is trying to keep Hardy at 90% feeder. This isn't Deal; but pretty high. And if the feeder numbers increase, then we could be seeing the end of OOB lottery for Hardy.

Now the future, Hardy's building capacity is 650 or about 215 students per grade. The Hardy feeders have about 350 students in K and 1st each. This means if Hardy truly 'flips', it could be looking at serving >900 kids - making Hardy a Deal-like situation in terms of crowding. This may not happen soon - but if trends continue, its looking more and more likely. Now some on this site think this is imminent, but it could take a good 4-5 years to happen. Right now, Stoddert and Hyde have a 40% and 50% attrition rate from K/1st to 5th grade (in class size). For comparison, Janney has a 10-20% attrition rate.

But! This high attrition seems to be slowing down. The outgoing 4th grade class at Stoddert is the same size at the 1st grade class. The same is true at Eaton and Mann too. (But not true at Key/Hyde - the latter which is still in a flex space somewhere far)

My semi-uninformed opinion is that the feeder/non-feeder split is:
incoming 6th grade: 90%
incoming 7th grade: 85% (attrition, not through new OOB students)
incoming 8th grade: 40%

Assuming that feeders are 75-80% IB and proportional pass-through:
6th ~65-70% IB
7th ~60-65% IB
8th ~30% IB (Current statistics are based on this cohort) - the official number is 27%

So, I'm guessing the medium-run the school will stabilize at 70% IB, which is what Deal is at.

[Anonymous]

Thank you oh Hardy data maven.

You have been missed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anybody know the rough IB/OOB split at hardy by grade? Is the 6th grade different from the 8th?

Some math that may or may not answer your question.

The claim at the beginning of the year was 90% feeder (which isn't the same as IB).
Last year there were 163 6th graders, so that means that about 145 feeder students.
There were only 149 7th graders and 139 8th graders.

At the feeders, here are the numbers of 5th graders:
Eaton Elementary School: 61
Hyde-Addison Elementary School @ Meyer: 33
Key Elementary School: 45
Stoddert Elementary School: 51
Mann Elementary School 43
Total: 233

If prior year trends hold, then say 145 of these students move on to Hardy.

Now in the lottery this year, Hardy opened up 20 seats for the 6th grade class, but none for the 7th or 8th grade classes. This will mean that about 90% of Hardy 6th grade will be feeder. IF last years IB pattern continues. It looks like DCPS is trying to keep Hardy at 90% feeder. This isn't Deal; but pretty high. And if the feeder numbers increase, then we could be seeing the end of OOB lottery for Hardy.

Now the future, Hardy's building capacity is 650 or about 215 students per grade. The Hardy feeders have about 350 students in K and 1st each. This means if Hardy truly 'flips', it could be looking at serving >900 kids - making Hardy a Deal-like situation in terms of crowding. This may not happen soon - but if trends continue, its looking more and more likely. Now some on this site think this is imminent, but it could take a good 4-5 years to happen. Right now, Stoddert and Hyde have a 40% and 50% attrition rate from K/1st to 5th grade (in class size). For comparison, Janney has a 10-20% attrition rate.

But! This high attrition seems to be slowing down. The outgoing 4th grade class at Stoddert is the same size at the 1st grade class. The same is true at Eaton and Mann too. (But not true at Key/Hyde - the latter which is still in a flex space somewhere far)

My semi-uninformed opinion is that the feeder/non-feeder split is:
incoming 6th grade: 90%
incoming 7th grade: 85% (attrition, not through new OOB students)
incoming 8th grade: 40%

Assuming that feeders are 75-80% IB and proportional pass-through:
6th ~65-70% IB
7th ~60-65% IB
8th ~30% IB (Current statistics are based on this cohort) - the official number is 27%

So, I'm guessing the medium-run the school will stabilize at 70% IB, which is what Deal is at.

Good analysis. across all the feeders, the # of kids in K is 342 and then dropped to 233 by 5th.

Worth noting, that the OOB #s at Stoddert and Eaton have gone done significantly over the past few years. Stoddert had no OOB starting in around 2014 (so those kids would now be entering 5th grade), and Eaton has dropped from being around 50% OOB to more like 25% or lower (noting the 8th graders at Hardy for this coming year are the last class that didn't include Eaton as a feeder) - but also just to note, Eaton has a relatively diverse population regardless for a WOTP school.
The current classes at Hyde reflect higher OOB #s b/c of the families leaving during the renovation/commute - so also expect the IB #s to go up there for the future.

But think you can also still expect relatively high levels of attrition from Mann and Key (and Hyde) regardless of the situation at Hardy just due to the populations at those schools (transient/international and high #s of private school-focused families).

I think most of the families in the area consider the 90% feeder population to be a 'flip' to it being a predominantly neighborhood school already.

The Hardy principal has set down a line with DCPS for still allowing a certain # of OOB kids & around diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anybody know the rough IB/OOB split at hardy by grade? Is the 6th grade different from the 8th?

Some math that may or may not answer your question.

The claim at the beginning of the year was 90% feeder (which isn't the same as IB).
Last year there were 163 6th graders, so that means that about 145 feeder students.
There were only 149 7th graders and 139 8th graders.

At the feeders, here are the numbers of 5th graders:
Eaton Elementary School: 61
Hyde-Addison Elementary School @ Meyer: 33
Key Elementary School: 45
Stoddert Elementary School: 51
Mann Elementary School 43
Total: 233

If prior year trends hold, then say 145 of these students move on to Hardy.

Now in the lottery this year, Hardy opened up 20 seats for the 6th grade class, but none for the 7th or 8th grade classes. This will mean that about 90% of Hardy 6th grade will be feeder. IF last years IB pattern continues. It looks like DCPS is trying to keep Hardy at 90% feeder. This isn't Deal; but pretty high. And if the feeder numbers increase, then we could be seeing the end of OOB lottery for Hardy.

Now the future, Hardy's building capacity is 650 or about 215 students per grade. The Hardy feeders have about 350 students in K and 1st each. This means if Hardy truly 'flips', it could be looking at serving >900 kids - making Hardy a Deal-like situation in terms of crowding. This may not happen soon - but if trends continue, its looking more and more likely. Now some on this site think this is imminent, but it could take a good 4-5 years to happen. Right now, Stoddert and Hyde have a 40% and 50% attrition rate from K/1st to 5th grade (in class size). For comparison, Janney has a 10-20% attrition rate.

But! This high attrition seems to be slowing down. The outgoing 4th grade class at Stoddert is the same size at the 1st grade class. The same is true at Eaton and Mann too. (But not true at Key/Hyde - the latter which is still in a flex space somewhere far)

My semi-uninformed opinion is that the feeder/non-feeder split is:
incoming 6th grade: 90%
incoming 7th grade: 85% (attrition, not through new OOB students)
incoming 8th grade: 40%

Assuming that feeders are 75-80% IB and proportional pass-through:
6th ~65-70% IB
7th ~60-65% IB
8th ~30% IB (Current statistics are based on this cohort) - the official number is 27%

So, I'm guessing the medium-run the school will stabilize at 70% IB, which is what Deal is at.

Good analysis. across all the feeders, the # of kids in K is 342 and then dropped to 233 by 5th.

Worth noting, that the OOB #s at Stoddert and Eaton have gone done significantly over the past few years. Stoddert had no OOB starting in around 2014 (so those kids would now be entering 5th grade), and Eaton has dropped from being around 50% OOB to more like 25% or lower (noting the 8th graders at Hardy for this coming year are the last class that didn't include Eaton as a feeder) - but also just to note, Eaton has a relatively diverse population regardless for a WOTP school.
The current classes at Hyde reflect higher OOB #s b/c of the families leaving during the renovation/commute - so also expect the IB #s to go up there for the future.

But think you can also still expect relatively high levels of attrition from Mann and Key (and Hyde) regardless of the situation at Hardy just due to the populations at those schools (transient/international and high #s of private school-focused families).

I think most of the families in the area consider the 90% feeder population to be a 'flip' to it being a predominantly neighborhood school already.

The Hardy principal has set down a line with DCPS for still allowing a certain # of OOB kids & around diversity.

OOB starting in around 2014 -- meant that no new OOB students admitted through lottery starting then...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Besides the middle school, I would also keep in mind the high school track in making your decision. There been some major changes at Wilson with their honors for all which many parents are not happy about, and it’s deterring a number of parents from considering Wilson for HS now.

Who knows what Wilson’s curriculum will be like 5+ years from now.

Well it seems to be a downward tracectory so not sure why that would change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Besides the middle school, I would also keep in mind the high school track in making your decision. There been some major changes at Wilson with their honors for all which many parents are not happy about, and it’s deterring a number of parents from considering Wilson for HS now.

True the change but if you looked at the amount of kids from the current Deal 8th grade class going there you know this quote about parents is bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Besides the middle school, I would also keep in mind the high school track in making your decision. There been some major changes at Wilson with their honors for all which many parents are not happy about, and it’s deterring a number of parents from considering Wilson for HS now.

True the change but if you looked at the amount of kids from the current Deal 8th grade class going there you know this quote about parents is bullshit.

I am not the PP. We were 100% Wilson for our rising straight A 8th grader at Deal but not any more. By 7th grade the differential between the low and high performing students is already large and increasing. Our child is unchallenged and bored, particularly in classes that have more than a few disruptive, low performing students. The thought of waiting until junior year for classes taught at a higher level for history, English, and science is absurd given that students at Wilson are years apart in grade-level performance. "Honors-for-All" is simply a gimmick but the likely consequences are real and harmful. I also worry about what other unannounced changes Principal Martin will implement to further dumb down and complicate the teaching at Wilson. The latest change going into effect this Fall is "Physics for All"--I am not kidding. At this point, I struggle whether it is ethical to send a high performing student to Wilson.

So in short what the PP said is not bullshit. High performing students will increasingly choose not to attend Wilson - it is easier to quietly not attend Wilson than it is to stand up to a major curriculum change that has been wrapped up in the "equity" blanket by the Principal despite lots of recent academic research to the contrary.

And "Honors-for-All" sends a terrible message to the parents of high performing students in other parts of the city that are struggling to turnaround low performing high schools. Parents in those neighborhoods are watching what is happening to Wilson. Those schools will never attract high performing students (and their pro-education active parents who have the means to invest in schools) without tracking. So why are we driving the highest performing children out of the system? It's madness.

Just for the record, even though Deal is not perfect, we love it and the principal, and we happily will be sending our second child there.

[Anonymous]

Thoughtful post, PP. Thank you. The Principal Martin needs to go. Parents, organize to vote out the city council members who support her and she won't be able to stay, with a raft of gentrifiers around the City of all races accruing the benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thoughtful post, PP. Thank you. The Principal Martin needs to go. Parents, organize to vote out the city council members who support her and she won't be able to stay, with a raft of gentrifiers around the City of all races accruing the benefit.

I don't think Principal Martin is going anywhere, unless we get a new Mayor. And yes, the chatter around the Wilson feeder community is that its academic standards are rapidly going downhill, but it is at least an "OK" place to send student who aims to go to a good college. I DO think that as the in-boundary population at Hardy continues to increase, it will be difficult for Principal Martin to face a plurality of irate parents from Deal and Hardy who want more advanced classes starting in 9th grade at Wilson. But that fight will not be a comfortable or polite one for the parents who choose to stand up to her, and will likely cause a giant rift between Wilson and the PTA when it happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Besides the middle school, I would also keep in mind the high school track in making your decision. There been some major changes at Wilson with their honors for all which many parents are not happy about, and it’s deterring a number of parents from considering Wilson for HS now.

True the change but if you looked at the amount of kids from the current Deal 8th grade class going there you know this quote about parents is bullshit.

I am not the PP. We were 100% Wilson for our rising straight A 8th grader at Deal but not any more. By 7th grade the differential between the low and high performing students is already large and increasing. Our child is unchallenged and bored, particularly in classes that have more than a few disruptive, low performing students. The thought of waiting until junior year for classes taught at a higher level for history, English, and science is absurd given that students at Wilson are years apart in grade-level performance. "Honors-for-All" is simply a gimmick but the likely consequences are real and harmful. I also worry about what other unannounced changes Principal Martin will implement to further dumb down and complicate the teaching at Wilson. The latest change going into effect this Fall is "Physics for All"--I am not kidding. At this point, I struggle whether it is ethical to send a high performing student to Wilson.

So in short what the PP said is not bullshit. High performing students will increasingly choose not to attend Wilson - it is easier to quietly not attend Wilson than it is to stand up to a major curriculum change that has been wrapped up in the "equity" blanket by the Principal despite lots of recent academic research to the contrary.

And "Honors-for-All" sends a terrible message to the parents of high performing students in other parts of the city that are struggling to turnaround low performing high schools. Parents in those neighborhoods are watching what is happening to Wilson. Those schools will never attract high performing students (and their pro-education active parents who have the means to invest in schools) without tracking. So why are we driving the highest performing children out of the system? It's madness.

Just for the record, even though Deal is not perfect, we love it and the principal, and we happily will be sending our second child there.

Agree about Wilson. Good post. DCPS cares about one thing and one thing only and that is closing the achievement gap. So driving away the highest performing students will do that if the only ones left are average or below average. The gap will be smaller. Just watch the trend as more families choose not to go the Wilson route or jump ship after the first year. Its inevitable and those that don’t believe it are in denial or just do not want to admit the truth.

But what really makes a good school is being able to meet the needs of ALL its students, not just focusing on the bottom students. DCPS fails miserably in that aspect.

[Anonymous]

Everybody relax about Honors for All at Wilson. I am sending my second child through Wilson. The first graduated this year, and took the regular honors classes at Wilson. He did fine, had a successful four years at Hardy, and is now at a top 30 scollege.

The second - who is a better student than the older child - just finished the 9th Grade Honors for All curriculum - and we noticed no real difference. He was challenged, the teachers were solid, there were no kids slowing down the class because they were behind.

Really, it's fine.

[Anonymous]

It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's obviously not fine. If it were, the high-performing suburban schools in this Metro area would go with 9th and 10th grade Honors for Al. They manifestly do not.

That is a ridiculous response.