So Ivies and top colleges are ALWAYS REACH?

[Anonymous]

The only people who downplay the probability of legacies getting admitted and equate it to that of unhooked applicants are those who already benefited from that policy or those hoping the policy will benefit their kids. Others have better commonsense and more objective outlook about the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The good thing about being admitted to Harvard for a no-hook candidate is that they will always be able to hack it there. Between the legacies and URMs and golf buddies, you will never be at the bottom of the heap. Oh, and also grade inflation. Look at the politicians and SCJ's they have produced! Just scum.

Not true. Some high stats kids struggled because they were not used to the elite instruction model. It took years for them to catch up. There is always a strong contingent that has studied almost any topic and often had similar tests on the same subject matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The good thing about being admitted to Harvard for a no-hook candidate is that they will always be able to hack it there. Between the legacies and URMs and golf buddies, you will never be at the bottom of the heap. Oh, and also grade inflation. Look at the politicians and SCJ's they have produced! Just scum.

Not true. Some high stats kids struggled because they were not used to the elite instruction model. It took years for them to catch up. There is always a strong contingent that has studied almost any topic and often had similar tests on the same subject matter.

Ivies typically have among the highest average GPAs of all schools. In other words, they have experience the highest grade inflation. http://www.gradeinflation.com/

Harvard is about 3.65 as is Brown, Penn, Columbia, and Dartmouth about 3.45, Princeton and Cornell about 3.4.

[Anonymous]

That does not mean that there are no students getting poor grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The good thing about being admitted to Harvard for a no-hook candidate is that they will always be able to hack it there. Between the legacies and URMs and golf buddies, you will never be at the bottom of the heap. Oh, and also grade inflation. Look at the politicians and SCJ's they have produced! Just scum.

Not true. Some high stats kids struggled because they were not used to the elite instruction model. It took years for them to catch up. There is always a strong contingent that has studied almost any topic and often had similar tests on the same subject matter.

Can you clarify?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am getting pissed now. High achieving Asian-American male student in magnet STEM program. 4.0 GPA, NMF, 10 APs, 1 state level EC, hundreds of hours of community service, member of a number of honor societies, started two clubs, research experience....and Ivies are just reach for him? FU%K IT!!!!!!!

If this is a real post--you have other kids like your son to thank for your frustration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am getting pissed now. High achieving Asian-American male student in magnet STEM program. 4.0 GPA, NMF, 10 APs, 1 state level EC, hundreds of hours of community service, member of a number of honor societies, started two clubs, research experience....and Ivies are just reach for him? FU%K IT!!!!!!!

If this is a real post--you have other kids like your son to thank for your frustration.

Actually he probably has less qualified white kids to thank for his son’s situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am getting pissed now. High achieving Asian-American male student in magnet STEM program. 4.0 GPA, NMF, 10 APs, 1 state level EC, hundreds of hours of community service, member of a number of honor societies, started two clubs, research experience....and Ivies are just reach for him? FU%K IT!!!!!!!

If this is a real post--you have other kids like your son to thank for your frustration.

Actually he probably has less qualified white kids to thank for his son’s situation.

I wasn't referring to race. I was referring to the competition. OP's son doesn't seem special because of the pressure high-achieving kids put themselves under and insane workaholism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am getting pissed now. High achieving Asian-American male student in magnet STEM program. 4.0 GPA, NMF, 10 APs, 1 state level EC, hundreds of hours of community service, member of a number of honor societies, started two clubs, research experience....and Ivies are just reach for him? FU%K IT!!!!!!!

If this is a real post--you have other kids like your son to thank for your frustration.

Actually he probably has less qualified white kids to thank for his son’s situation.

I wasn't referring to race. I was referring to the competition. OP's son doesn't seem special because of the pressure high-achieving kids put themselves under and insane workaholism.

No actually the real reason we are in this situation is that the national level tests - like the SAT SAT subject tests and the APs are too easy at the top levels of scoring - they dont have enough challenging sections to differentiate peformance at the top levels of academic prowess. So all smart kids look like they have 5s on their APs when really there should be a level 6 and 7 of performance so that the test really does select the truly super-"smart" kids from the merely smart. That is what the British A-levels A* versus A score gives you and what the IB 7 / 7scores give compared to 5or6/7. Only 3% of kids in IB score 7s and 5% of A-level kids get A*s. But for APs about 15% get 5s so these tests dont allow enough selection of the true top-level kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am getting pissed now. High achieving Asian-American male student in magnet STEM program. 4.0 GPA, NMF, 10 APs, 1 state level EC, hundreds of hours of community service, member of a number of honor societies, started two clubs, research experience....and Ivies are just reach for him? FU%K IT!!!!!!!

If this is a real post--you have other kids like your son to thank for your frustration.

Actually he probably has less qualified white kids to thank for his son’s situation.

I wasn't referring to race. I was referring to the competition. OP's son doesn't seem special because of the pressure high-achieving kids put themselves under and insane workaholism.

No actually the real reason we are in this situation is that the national level tests - like the SAT SAT subject tests and the APs are too easy at the top levels of scoring - they dont have enough challenging sections to differentiate peformance at the top levels of academic prowess. So all smart kids look like they have 5s on their APs when really there should be a level 6 and 7 of performance so that the test really does select the truly super-"smart" kids from the merely smart. That is what the British A-levels A* versus A score gives you and what the IB 7 / 7scores give compared to 5or6/7. Only 3% of kids in IB score 7s and 5% of A-level kids get A*s. But for APs about 15% get 5s so these tests dont allow enough selection of the true top-level kids.

Well put! I completely agree. The College Board is a bunch of morons. Who would take an instrument and deliberately make it less precise?! Getting rid of the vocab section and analogies was a ridiculous move. I wonder if colleges are asking for better tests.

[Anonymous]

You can always try to get your kid into Cambridge or Oxford if you think that system is better. The rest of the world is trying to get access to the American educational institutions because our univerisities are considered the gold standard. Most top schools in the world are American and have holistic admissions. It’s so odd that foreigners come to America for education or job opportunities and then are furious that our educational system does not follow the rigid testing structure that forced them to leave in the first place. They come for the opportunity in America but want to change it to a rigid testing culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can always try to get your kid into Cambridge or Oxford if you think that system is better. The rest of the world is trying to get access to the American educational institutions because our univerisities are considered the gold standard. Most top schools in the world are American and have holistic admissions. It’s so odd that foreigners come to America for education or job opportunities and then are furious that our educational system does not follow the rigid testing structure that forced them to leave in the first place. They come for the opportunity in America but want to change it to a rigid testing culture.

Well I am the poster who made the point about the ceiling effect of our national tests and I am an American so I am not sure what made you assume I was a foreigner


In any case I will admit that I am a professor at a top 20 university and value academic accomplishment in my students. And also I have written test questions for national tests and understand the psychometric criteria used in constructing national test instruments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can always try to get your kid into Cambridge or Oxford if you think that system is better. The rest of the world is trying to get access to the American educational institutions because our univerisities are considered the gold standard. Most top schools in the world are American and have holistic admissions. It’s so odd that foreigners come to America for education or job opportunities and then are furious that our educational system does not follow the rigid testing structure that forced them to leave in the first place. They come for the opportunity in America but want to change it to a rigid testing culture.

Well I am the poster who made the point about the ceiling effect of our national tests and I am an American so I am not sure what made you assume I was a foreigner


In any case I will admit that I am a professor at a top 20 university and value academic accomplishment in my students. And also I have written test questions for national tests and understand the psychometric criteria used in constructing national test instruments.

Having a clearer signal on Academic performance through harder national tests doesnt prevent or obviate the holistic admissions approach or the ability to bias admissions in favor of underrepresented groups. It just allows a much better fine-tuned process that is able to signal to potential applicants why they were or were not admitted. Having noise in the criteria just makes the process more random. Even a rational holistic admissions process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can always try to get your kid into Cambridge or Oxford if you think that system is better. The rest of the world is trying to get access to the American educational institutions because our univerisities are considered the gold standard. Most top schools in the world are American and have holistic admissions. It’s so odd that foreigners come to America for education or job opportunities and then are furious that our educational system does not follow the rigid testing structure that forced them to leave in the first place. They come for the opportunity in America but want to change it to a rigid testing culture.

Well I am the poster who made the point about the ceiling effect of our national tests and I am an American so I am not sure what made you assume I was a foreigner


In any case I will admit that I am a professor at a top 20 university and value academic accomplishment in my students. And also I have written test questions for national tests and understand the psychometric criteria used in constructing national test instruments.

Curious. Do you oppose holistic admissions? I’m curious about an academic’s opinion.

[Anonymous]

I do not oppose holistic admissions but numerous other posters on this chain place a heavy emphasis on testing. There are no top 20 schools in the DMV area so ...’you are probably a troll