So Ivies and top colleges are ALWAYS REACH?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a sense of entitlement, OP. You think nobody else's kid is accomplished? There are thousands of kids with similar stats and it is a reach for all of them. Your child is obviously very accomplished and will succeed whether he hits the Ivy lottery or not.

Correction - legacy admissions that are not based on such excellent stats are the ones with the unearned sense of entitlement. It is the elitist manipulation of the educational system, that gives us grossly under qualified people like Trump in the WH. Or maybe merit no longer matters.

For the non-legacy, non-hook, people with the excellent stats? it's just a lament on an anon board.

I'm the one you quoted. I agree that legacy admissions are the height of entitlement. However, OP seems to think great grades and test scores entitles one to Ivy when it does not. There are not enough Ivy seats to go around for all of the kids like that. It's the baseline (unless you have some other hook) and they are looking for more. It's the same story for all of our kids. That's life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 36 ACT DS with Hispanic ethnicity did not apply to any Ivies (did not want to). He got into his first choice, but DH wanted bragging rights. Oh well.

Congrats to your son he will be fine

Ivies are vastly overrated

[Anonymous]

This article focuses on Harvard, but its lessons are applicable to any highly selective universities or colleges.

"Getting Into Harvard Is Hard. Here Are 4 Ways Applicants Get an Edge" https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/us/getting-into-harvard.html

[Anonymous]

OP, I would recommend your son really think about which teachers can give him the best recommendations and really work on his essays. From what I have read various places, those things really matter and the kids that assume they are high scoring so they can get in do not spend the time they need on them. That is how he can stand out from the sea of "perfect" applicants. But Ivy is not a sure thing for anyone,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:black or Hispanic much better chance with those stats

Is it fair personally I don't think so but it is what it is

same with white athletes and white legacy applicants.

Legacy is not the advantage that you think it is. I have twice had kids strike out at my alma mater despite scores within their middle 50%. Perhaps if I gave more.

+1. Legacy advantage is vastly overstated.

Except at Harvard -- which accepts way more legacies as a percentage of admits than anyplace else.

However, they have so many alums, legacy is no guarantee.

Legacy as a percent of admissions is the wrong metric. It discounts that many legacy applicants are good candidates. It also discounts increased interest among legacies (e.g. a top applicant who grew up hearing about Harvard is more likely to choose Harvard than Yale). Average test score of legacy admissions vs. non-legacy is a much better metric.

Agreed and I believe I saw reference to this in the data that was released pursuant to the lawsuit......there was a negative delta but is was minimal compared to athlete and URM admits.

[Anonymous]

Those stats are really just "so-so" OP. If you're going to go to the trouble of making up a story, at least make the stats more compelling to match your rage.

You failed to mention SAT scores, for example. Even kids w/ perfect SATs are no guarantee at Ivies. Why do you think your made up person is so special?

[Anonymous]

The good news is that if your kids ends up at a school like UVA, Michigan, Tufts (he's bound to get into one with those states) he will probably get into an elite grad school. I went to Duke for grad school & my classmates came from a range of schools from Princeton to NC State.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:black or Hispanic much better chance with those stats

Is it fair personally I don't think so but it is what it is

same with white athletes and white legacy applicants.

Legacy is not the advantage that you think it is. I have twice had kids strike out at my alma mater despite scores within their middle 50%. Perhaps if I gave more.

+1. Legacy advantage is vastly overstated.

Except at Harvard -- which accepts way more legacies as a percentage of admits than anyplace else.

However, they have so many alums, legacy is no guarantee.

And H legacies kids tend to have done the type of activities that are valued by admin and make them hyper competitive in the process. Following the common wisdom on DCUM will lead directly to UVA or UMD for a smart kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am getting pissed now. High achieving Asian-American male student in magnet STEM program. 4.0 GPA, NMF, 10 APs, 1 state level EC, hundreds of hours of community service, member of a number of honor societies, started two clubs, research experience....and Ivies are just reach for him? FU%K IT!!!!!!!

I've been a Harvard interviewer for decades. In this area, a high GPA in the school's most rigorous courseload, several 5's on APs taken as a junior with several more in progress as a senior, and 1500 plus M+V SAT's, gets you into the top 30-40 percent of the applicant pool. The school has freshman dorm space for 4.5 percent of the applicant pool. So that top group still has to be reduced by 80%.

Once you have established that a student is academically prepared, what the universities like to see is that a student is getting off the sofa and doing things. They would rather have a 1500 SAT scorer who gets things done, than a 1600 whose hasn't contributed much. The 1500 who gets things done is far more likely to be successful, and either give a wad o' cash to the university, or make the university look good by creating something.

With a state level EC, lots of community service, and starting clubs, your son has demonstrated that he is proactive. If the research was designed by him and yielded some results that he wrote up, he will demonstrate original/scientific thinking (We see kids at the STEM magnets publishing in scientific journals every year). He will get in somewhere good. Can he count on a particular Ivy? No. This country has 330 million people. At this moment, a kid on Bainbridge Island off of Seattle with 1600 SATS is observing wildlife for the 330th day in a row, and is writing up the results or recording them for a research team at UW. A kid in the Berkshires is composing a concerto. A kid in Minnesota will be written up in the local rag for taking the most APs of anyone in the county. All of this is really good for us as a nation. It means we have a lot of centers of academic excellence around the country. Meeting these kids gives me hope, They, their scientific training, and their motivation will outlive Trump and his pile of old angry white guys.

Thank you for this post. I had near-identical stats to OP's child (although I'm a white female), and I did not get into Princeton, my Ivy "reach". Getting that rejection letter stung, sure...but not as much as the decades of student loan bills would have

[Anonymous]

Wait. That is presumably a 4.0 weighted since the student is taking AP courses. If so, yes, they are all a reach. It takes a 4.12 to 4.24 to hit just the bottom 25 median percentile of UVA and W&M. Applicant needs something more like a 4.5+ to get into an Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait. That is presumably a 4.0 weighted since the student is taking AP courses. If so, yes, they are all a reach. It takes a 4.12 to 4.24 to hit just the bottom 25 median percentile of UVA and W&M. Applicant needs something more like a 4.5+ to get into an Ivy.

Unweighted GPA. All A's. APs are all 5s. Magnet STEM courses in a program that is highly competitive to get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait. That is presumably a 4.0 weighted since the student is taking AP courses. If so, yes, they are all a reach. It takes a 4.12 to 4.24 to hit just the bottom 25 median percentile of UVA and W&M. Applicant needs something more like a 4.5+ to get into an Ivy.

Unweighted GPA. All A's. APs are all 5s. Magnet STEM courses in a program that is highly competitive to get in.

If your schools offers weighted APs, your GPA is weighed.

[Anonymous]

Honors College at UMD has lots of kids like this. So many smart kids all over the country. Definitely a new baseline.

[Anonymous]

And in addition to the great points above about the fact that there are far more kids in this country with comparable profiles, do not forget that there are also a ton of kids applying from overseas with comparable profiles -- many of whom will be full pay. So your kid (and mine) is in competition with all of those kids, in an environment where schools now want a well-rounded and diverse student body that includes geographic diversity. So kids from the DC-MD-VA area with those stats are a dime a dozen (if not less), while kids from less populated states with those stats might have an edge if the incoming class needs students from underrepresented states (or countries).

It is what it is, and as Frank Bruni says, where you go is not who'll you be.

[Anonymous]

Not at our private for development kids $$$, high achieving legacies esp those w siblings already at school, family legacies where at least 3 generations, athletes and URM