Forum Index
»
Political Discussion
Ft. Hood
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
Well, I'm not going that far. I really didn't think he did it for relgious reasons, that's all. I thought he was sick in the head, mental disorders, bullied/unresilient, etc. He probably still is all that, but I hadn't seen a leap to religious fanaticism without more facts. How is making sure we don't "jump to conclusions" a disservice to Muslims? We need to focus on aberrant behavior that is most likely to lead to violence. But being Muslim, even being a fundamentalist Muslim, is not aberrant behavior. |
Anonymous
|
fundamentlists Muslims are of course free to do whatever they want, so long as it is not to incite murder (or in fact, murder). fanatical extremist Muslim does not equal "fundamentalist Muslim".
that would be like saying every Mormon is tied to the wacky LDS-offshoot cults. |
jsteele
Site Admin Offline
Site Admin Offline
I would caution against reading too much into this report at this time. The article is very vague. It says he "attempted to make contact" with people "associated" with Al-Qaida. That's a pretty broad statement. We don't know whether he was successful in his attempts or who it was that he was trying to contact. There are all kinds of people "associated" to various degrees with al-Qaida (including, at one time, our CIA). More importantly, we don't know why he was trying to contact them. If he was trying to contact them to tell them the government had implanted electrodes in his head, that would not be very good evidence that he is a terrorist (and I have had people contact me with exactly that allegation multiple times). As Army Chief of Staff George Casey said this weekend, "We have to be careful because we can't jump to conclusions now based on little snippets of information that have come out." He also said that he was "concerned that this increased speculation could cause a backlash against some of our Muslim soldiers” http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/11/08/casey-im-concerned-about-possible-backlash-against-muslim-soldiers/ |
Anonymous
NP here. Coincidence does not mean causality. Murderous + muslim (even shouting muslim) does not equal murderous BECAUSE he's muslim. The guy was crazy. He could have been crazy in any faith. He could have used any religion to, in his sick mind, justify his actions. Just like the recent shooter at the Holocaust museum was found to have extreme Christian literature in his vehicle. Christianity didn't make him kill; the fact that he is a sociopath did. Crazy people get into all kinds of weird stuff as they go down the path of darker and darker behavior. for the Columbine killers, it was violent video games. For Hassan, the idea of Jihad perhaps captured his imagination. He may have been angered into action by what he saw as unjust American actions against muslims. But I think it's a person's pre-existing.... insanity that makes them a murderer, or not. Religion is just a veneer, icing on the poison cake. |
Anonymous
I do generally agree with you. It's a complex issue by all accounts. I guess I was thinking of it from a sane perspective. I'm the one whose husband is Arab Muslim and I do know his life has changed dramatically since 9/11. He, as well as most Muslims I know, are cautious not to engage in behavior that would seem somehow suspicious. So the very idea of trying to contact al Qaeda is just complete lunacy. Having said that, he would be the exact type of person al Qaeda would use. |
Anonymous
It may not equal causality, but that does not mean that one has to pussy-foot around the coincidence. And the people who should have been noting that he was a loner, given to aberrant statements, a poor performer at work could have investigated further, discovered he was noodling around al qaeda literature and then legitimately suggested a potential for causality based on the coincidence that he was weird and interested in fanatical materials? I wonder why they backed off him before getting to that point when he was such a poor performer and instead transferred him to Ft. Hood? I wonder why the FBI investigation went nowhere?? |
Anonymous
Because it will require traveling and involve some degree of risk during times of war. |
Anonymous
I'm sorry but I would disagree with you. I am Muslim. Wahabism is a form of fundamentalist Islam and it produces many hard-liners, people with a fanatical mindset. Most Muslims think the Quran is the word of God. Most Muslims are supposed to regard the Hadith as a supportive text to the Quran, it is secondary to the Quran. But fundamentalists sometimes confuse the Hadith with Quran and put enormous credence in Hadith, even if there is not direct support for a particular Hadith in the primary source, the Quran. The Quran is a general guide. The Hadith is so specific at times that one is left to wonder how much is based on the true word of God. A true Muslim has a peaceful manner, a calm nature. A true Muslim does not think he is better than others, or that he is more likely to enter Heaven than others, simply because he is a Muslim and they are Christians or Jews or even disbelievers. No one person knows who is better except God. There is one hadith that my father used to tell me about. I'm paraphrasing here - It is the story of a drunkard Muslim and a pious Muslim. The drunkard lives in the city and gets drunk each weekend. The pious Muslim lives on top of a mountain, in seclusion, because he wishes to pray all the time. One day God sends an angel in disguise to the pious Muslim and asks him, "Is it possible to fit an elephant through the eye of a needle?" Pious Muslim tells angel he's crazy and of course not, no way. The angel asks the same question of the drunkard. The drunkard is intoxicated when the angel approaches him with this question. He answers, "Yes, anything is possible if it is the will of God." The moral of the story is that in Islam, God doesn't always look at the outside exhibition of piety. He is more interested in inner piety - the condition of one's heart and depth of his belief in God. A fundamentalist Muslim always has a hard time with the above hadith. He is often judgmental and spends more time putting down others for their trangressions than in introspection. Many fanaticals are born out of fundmentalist communities. |
Anonymous
Tevya the dairyman: "If it were the will of God that that one should answer the question in that fashion, that is the answer everyone would give, no?" Tevya's friend: "No, God endowed us with free will to decide for ourselves how to answer." Tevya: "So, presumably the elephant has free will to decide not to squeeze through the needle's eye!" 
|
Anonymous
Tevya's friend: "Yes, if you and the elephant could have the same mother." |
Anonymous
I guess I don't understand the travel drawback. If he truly wanted to get married, I'm sure his extended family in Palestine would know many eligible women who would love to come live in America, get citizenship, and be able to provide her future children with everything America offers. He would have been an extremely attractive marriage prospect to many. The country my husband is from has seen various wars over the years and military life is a way of life for many. As long as the wife and children are provided for financially, things are good. Is it the life "I" would want? No. But many would. And as marriage is half the religion, I still find it very puzzling he wasn't married and still think it says a lot about his underlying mental state. Of course I'm just speculating, because that's all we are doing at this point. |
Anonymous
My brother was a successful businessman. For all I know, he might have voted Republican. |
Anonymous
|
Well, it looks like the doctor has provided his own diagnosis. And it appears that his act is motivated by Islam. And yet it is not a political act as much as a psychological breakdown.
His own analysis of Muslims in the military is that they should be allowed to bow out of the war as conscientious objectors because of the moral dilemma they face and thus their presence is a risk to troop morale and for adverse events. In other words, he's basically saying that some Muslims might snap under the pressure if deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan and it's better to give them the option of staying home. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33819877/ns/us_news-washington_post/ |
jsteele
Site Admin Offline
Site Admin Offline
His entire presentation is online here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2009/11/10/GA2009111000920.html Those in attendance must have been completely baffled. He paints a picture of why an observant Muslim would face inner conflict by participating in the two current wars. He also attempts to provide some insight into the minds of the Muslims we are fighting. What I notice is that this is a very theoretical analysis that ignores some of the more brutal realities of real life. For instance, he stresses that Muslims should not kill one another. That ignores the fact that Muslims are fighting and killing each other all the time. He describes the justification for suicide bombing in purely religious terms, ignoring the various levels of coercion that are generally also involved (i.e. "if you blow yourself up we will provide for your family" or "if you don't blow yourself up, you must not be a believer and we will kill you".) It does seem to describe his own psychological dilemma. Sort of a self-fullfilling prophesy. |
Anonymous
| Islam has nothing to do with these loonies.The Hispanic guy in Orlando,florida shooting was not motivated by his religion to start shooting.Similarly Hassan happened to be a Muslim but a sick person too.The sad part is he was dealing with a lot of post traumatic stress patients and I think he just snapped!! |