Luther Jackson MS Enrollment Plunges as Expected

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'd be furious if the school board was basing decisions on property values rather than the education and education setting of the students. You really, really need to move,get a hobby, find a new focus, talk to a therapist, etc. The decision is done and we are SO glad we picked LJ and we are also SO glad others did not.



What's funny is that the people who are at LJ are happy. The people who are at TMS are happy. So, pretty much it's just the people who are looking to find some victims and to claim moral outrage who start threads like this and go on about lawsuits and injustice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LJMS was seriously and dangerously overcrowded. There was no reasonable way to balance out FARMS numbers while reducing overcrowding. Hopefully they were able to anticipate staffing needs and not lose any of the great staff members. Thoreau would be better able to handle overcrowding after their renovation and due to their demographics.

On what planet do you think a school in FCPS loses that much of its enrollment without destaffing?

PP referenced keeping the great staff members, not necessarily all the staff members. A good principal learns to play the enrollment/destaffing game to his/her advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the long term prospects for Luther Jackson are good. The Mosaic District and the other building in the area will eventually have more middle class students to balance it out. Kilmer and Longfellow have neighborhoods that could easily be moved to LJ to help with their overcrowding.

Agree! We are very happy to ease the crowding at LJMS and I think it is ridiculously to preach this doom and glum with all the growth from Mosaic and Inova. We've had several doctors recently buy in our area - OP, does that make you feel better? We are at a very diverse school and love it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'd be furious if the school board was basing decisions on property values rather than the education and education setting of the students. You really, really need to move,get a hobby, find a new focus, talk to a therapist, etc. The decision is done and we are SO glad we picked LJ and we are also SO glad others did not.

What's funny is that the people who are at LJ are happy. The people who are at TMS are happy. So, pretty much it's just the people who are looking to find some victims and to claim moral outrage who start threads like this and go on about lawsuits and injustice.

As someone at a school that FCPS has segregated over the past decade, we are not happy with it, but it’s not an easy topic to raise publicly and the people who wanted to attend the rich schools always try to drown out our voices anyway.

[Anonymous]

There hasn't been one person who has kids at LJMS make specific complaints about LJ. On the contrary, several PPs who have kids there have said they are happy with it. Not one TMS parent has posted complaints about the rapid growth at the school. So as much as some would like to bash this rezoning decision...they don't have anything but conjecture and imagined catastrophe. Come back with some evidence or give it a chance until you have some proof.

[Anonymous]

The issues won't necessarily be visible the first year or two, but knowing what has happened in other FCPS schools, a change for the worse will creep in over the next five years. You just can't raise the F/R lunch percentage a bunch and expect there to be no consequences. The wild card for Jackson is the AAP program - that could keep it from falling off too far. It really depends on how many of the Thoreau AAP students choose the Jackson center over staying at Thoreau. So - rising F/R lunch numbers and a shrinking AAP program means the school will be different and test scores will eventually reflect that.

And why did the FCPS stop reporting the AAP numbers on the membership page? That could have provided some key information. It will also be interesting to see the F/R lunch rates when VDOE releases them. Jackson's enrollment dropped quite dramatically and much of that was likely non-F/R students - so the rate at Jackson will have jumped quite a bit.

And it is true, the decision has been made and it will never be reversed. So anybody upset about this can just drop it. Not trying to be rude, but FCPS would never go back.

I wouldn't get too excited about the Mosaic District helping out. Looks like that falls into the Fairhill ES school district. Fairhill has the lowest F/R rate (24.3%) of the schools feeding Falls Church, but the other elementary schools are Camelot (36.7%), Graham Road (86.1%), Pine Spring (65.2%), Westlawn (71.0%), and Woodburn (66.9%). Not seeing how the numbers at Jackson (43.4%) or Falls Church (57.6%) improve with those feeders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issues won't necessarily be visible the first year or two, but knowing what has happened in other FCPS schools, a change for the worse will creep in over the next five years. You just can't raise the F/R lunch percentage a bunch and expect there to be no consequences. The wild card for Jackson is the AAP program - that could keep it from falling off too far. It really depends on how many of the Thoreau AAP students choose the Jackson center over staying at Thoreau. So - rising F/R lunch numbers and a shrinking AAP program means the school will be different and test scores will eventually reflect that.

And why did the FCPS stop reporting the AAP numbers on the membership page? That could have provided some key information. It will also be interesting to see the F/R lunch rates when VDOE releases them. Jackson's enrollment dropped quite dramatically and much of that was likely non-F/R students - so the rate at Jackson will have jumped quite a bit.

And it is true, the decision has been made and it will never be reversed. So anybody upset about this can just drop it. Not trying to be rude, but FCPS would never go back.

I wouldn't get too excited about the Mosaic District helping out. Looks like that falls into the Fairhill ES school district. Fairhill has the lowest F/R rate (24.3%) of the schools feeding Falls Church, but the other elementary schools are Camelot (36.7%), Graham Road (86.1%), Pine Spring (65.2%), Westlawn (71.0%), and Woodburn (66.9%). Not seeing how the numbers at Jackson (43.4%) or Falls Church (57.6%) improve with those feeders.

Conjecture and hyperbole.

[Anonymous]

It is understood that the FARMS/ESOL percentages are going to increase -- not because there are more FARMS/ESOL kids, but because there are fewer non-FARMS/non-ESOL kids. The FARMS/ESOL kids are the same ones would would have been there even if no re-zoning took place.

Jackson is going to look more like Falls Church HS. Not exactly like FCHS b/c Jackson will still draw kids for AAP. But, it is going to be lean more towards FCHS's numbers --- of course, that is to be expected b/c Jackson is, in fact, THE ONLY middle school feeder for FCHS. So, it really should be a reflection of FCHS!

Even with that demographic outcome -- which is really who FCHS kids are --- you will still have people who are very supportive and excited about LJMS b/c their kids are getting good teachers and they are doing very well (especially b/c of the AAP influence). Do you really think the reputation that has been built over the years is going to suddenly tank? It is not.

When you buy in FCHS pyramid, you are getting the FCHS-pyramid experience from MS on.

FWIW - regarding SATs, the white kids at Falls Church (which would be the same demographic as you will now see at Jackson) have average SAT scores on par with Hayfield, Centerville, Edison and others. It's not super great, but not bad either. (based on the scores posted on FCPS profiles).

So, yes, the school as a whole will seem more ESOL/FARMS, but those who aren't dealing with those challenges are doing o.k. Contrast that with the white kids at Lee -- who are scoring a full 100+ points lower (on average). It's not the same thing. Falls Church HS IS what you can expect at Jackson (after rezoning). You don't need to imagine doom and gloom. Jackson will be no worse than Falls Church HS for the non-AAP kids.... and on the whole, it will still look better than Falls Church HS b/c of the AAP bump.

[Anonymous]

You don't understand how tied in neighborhoods are to schools. This has been studied over and over again all over America. The only way to improve scores for low income children over a long term is to integrate high and low income children together.

To the PP making a false issue over considering property values as part of education, please read the statement about. It is because of this evidence based understanding, that it is imperative that demographics, property values and incomes be studied when determining school boundaries and school cohorts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issues won't necessarily be visible the first year or two, but knowing what has happened in other FCPS schools, a change for the worse will creep in over the next five years. You just can't raise the F/R lunch percentage a bunch and expect there to be no consequences. The wild card for Jackson is the AAP program - that could keep it from falling off too far. It really depends on how many of the Thoreau AAP students choose the Jackson center over staying at Thoreau. So - rising F/R lunch numbers and a shrinking AAP program means the school will be different and test scores will eventually reflect that.

And why did the FCPS stop reporting the AAP numbers on the membership page? That could have provided some key information. It will also be interesting to see the F/R lunch rates when VDOE releases them. Jackson's enrollment dropped quite dramatically and much of that was likely non-F/R students - so the rate at Jackson will have jumped quite a bit.

And it is true, the decision has been made and it will never be reversed. So anybody upset about this can just drop it. Not trying to be rude, but FCPS would never go back.

I wouldn't get too excited about the Mosaic District helping out. Looks like that falls into the Fairhill ES school district. Fairhill has the lowest F/R rate (24.3%) of the schools feeding Falls Church, but the other elementary schools are Camelot (36.7%), Graham Road (86.1%), Pine Spring (65.2%), Westlawn (71.0%), and Woodburn (66.9%). Not seeing how the numbers at Jackson (43.4%) or Falls Church (57.6%) improve with those feeders.

Conjecture and hyperbole.

With a proven record from the past. Just look at Annandale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issues won't necessarily be visible the first year or two, but knowing what has happened in other FCPS schools, a change for the worse will creep in over the next five years. You just can't raise the F/R lunch percentage a bunch and expect there to be no consequences. The wild card for Jackson is the AAP program - that could keep it from falling off too far. It really depends on how many of the Thoreau AAP students choose the Jackson center over staying at Thoreau. So - rising F/R lunch numbers and a shrinking AAP program means the school will be different and test scores will eventually reflect that.

And why did the FCPS stop reporting the AAP numbers on the membership page? That could have provided some key information. It will also be interesting to see the F/R lunch rates when VDOE releases them. Jackson's enrollment dropped quite dramatically and much of that was likely non-F/R students - so the rate at Jackson will have jumped quite a bit.

And it is true, the decision has been made and it will never be reversed. So anybody upset about this can just drop it. Not trying to be rude, but FCPS would never go back.

I wouldn't get too excited about the Mosaic District helping out. Looks like that falls into the Fairhill ES school district. Fairhill has the lowest F/R rate (24.3%) of the schools feeding Falls Church, but the other elementary schools are Camelot (36.7%), Graham Road (86.1%), Pine Spring (65.2%), Westlawn (71.0%), and Woodburn (66.9%). Not seeing how the numbers at Jackson (43.4%) or Falls Church (57.6%) improve with those feeders.

Conjecture and hyperbole.

With a proven record from the past. Just look at Annandale.

You have no idea what will happen with the aap kids. Conjecture. That “wild card” Makes other analogies wrong.

You have zero idea if the free and reduced lunch kids are the ones who left or stayed at LJ. Conjecture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is understood that the FARMS/ESOL percentages are going to increase -- not because there are more FARMS/ESOL kids, but because there are fewer non-FARMS/non-ESOL kids. The FARMS/ESOL kids are the same ones would would have been there even if no re-zoning took place.

Jackson is going to look more like Falls Church HS. Not exactly like FCHS b/c Jackson will still draw kids for AAP. But, it is going to be lean more towards FCHS's numbers --- of course, that is to be expected b/c Jackson is, in fact, THE ONLY middle school feeder for FCHS. So, it really should be a reflection of FCHS!

Even with that demographic outcome -- which is really who FCHS kids are --- you will still have people who are very supportive and excited about LJMS b/c their kids are getting good teachers and they are doing very well (especially b/c of the AAP influence). Do you really think the reputation that has been built over the years is going to suddenly tank? It is not.

When you buy in FCHS pyramid, you are getting the FCHS-pyramid experience from MS on.

FWIW - regarding SATs, the white kids at Falls Church (which would be the same demographic as you will now see at Jackson) have average SAT scores on par with Hayfield, Centerville, Edison and others. It's not super great, but not bad either. (based on the scores posted on FCPS profiles).

So, yes, the school as a whole will seem more ESOL/FARMS, but those who aren't dealing with those challenges are doing o.k. Contrast that with the white kids at Lee -- who are scoring a full 100+ points lower (on average). It's not the same thing. Falls Church HS IS what you can expect at Jackson (after rezoning). You don't need to imagine doom and gloom. Jackson will be no worse than Falls Church HS for the non-AAP kids.... and on the whole, it will still look better than Falls Church HS b/c of the AAP bump.

This is incorrect. Poe is a split feeder to Annandale and Falls Church.

FCPS has turned Poe/Annandale from stable schools to schools where the poverty rates are shooting through the roof. It's crazy they've decided to replicate that at Jackson (the only difference being that Jackson will get a dwindling number of AAP kids from Thoreau, while Poe sends AAP kids to Frost and Glasgow).

Through its boundaries and AAP program, Jackson had shored up Falls Church HS, but that will come to an end. The only positives are the close-in location (Mosaic is less important than the proximity to Tysons and the Dunn Loring metro) and the fact that Falls Church HS is scheduled for a major renovation soon. Otherwise FCPS is killing that pyramid, just like it did to Annandale.

[Anonymous]

The Falls Church renovation will help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is understood that the FARMS/ESOL percentages are going to increase -- not because there are more FARMS/ESOL kids, but because there are fewer non-FARMS/non-ESOL kids. The FARMS/ESOL kids are the same ones would would have been there even if no re-zoning took place.

Jackson is going to look more like Falls Church HS. Not exactly like FCHS b/c Jackson will still draw kids for AAP. But, it is going to be lean more towards FCHS's numbers --- of course, that is to be expected b/c Jackson is, in fact, THE ONLY middle school feeder for FCHS. So, it really should be a reflection of FCHS!

Even with that demographic outcome -- which is really who FCHS kids are --- you will still have people who are very supportive and excited about LJMS b/c their kids are getting good teachers and they are doing very well (especially b/c of the AAP influence). Do you really think the reputation that has been built over the years is going to suddenly tank? It is not.

When you buy in FCHS pyramid, you are getting the FCHS-pyramid experience from MS on.

FWIW - regarding SATs, the white kids at Falls Church (which would be the same demographic as you will now see at Jackson) have average SAT scores on par with Hayfield, Centerville, Edison and others. It's not super great, but not bad either. (based on the scores posted on FCPS profiles).

So, yes, the school as a whole will seem more ESOL/FARMS, but those who aren't dealing with those challenges are doing o.k. Contrast that with the white kids at Lee -- who are scoring a full 100+ points lower (on average). It's not the same thing. Falls Church HS IS what you can expect at Jackson (after rezoning). You don't need to imagine doom and gloom. Jackson will be no worse than Falls Church HS for the non-AAP kids.... and on the whole, it will still look better than Falls Church HS b/c of the AAP bump.

This is incorrect. Poe is a split feeder to Annandale and Falls Church.

FCPS has turned Poe/Annandale from stable schools to schools where the poverty rates are shooting through the roof. It's crazy they've decided to replicate that at Jackson (the only difference being that Jackson will get a dwindling number of AAP kids from Thoreau, while Poe sends AAP kids to Frost and Glasgow).

Through its boundaries and AAP program, Jackson had shored up Falls Church HS, but that will come to an end. The only positives are the close-in location (Mosaic is less important than the proximity to Tysons and the Dunn Loring metro) and the fact that Falls Church HS is scheduled for a major renovation soon. Otherwise FCPS is killing that pyramid, just like it did to Annandale.

Genuinely curious, what evidence do you have that Jackson had shored up Falls Church HS?

I've lived in this area a very long time, and back in the day Jackson had an absolutely terrible reputation, much worse than that of Falls Church. Jackson's boundary was much the same as it was prior to the recent boundary changes, and it included the Oakton, Mosby Woods, and Marshall Road areas. Having those areas attend Jackson didn't help its reputation at all. What finally improved Jackson's reputation was adding the AAP center. I don't really feel like Falls Church's reputation has changed at all. If there are changes in Falls Church's reputation, they seem to depend on how strong the current principal is, not anything going on at Jackson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is understood that the FARMS/ESOL percentages are going to increase -- not because there are more FARMS/ESOL kids, but because there are fewer non-FARMS/non-ESOL kids. The FARMS/ESOL kids are the same ones would would have been there even if no re-zoning took place.

Jackson is going to look more like Falls Church HS. Not exactly like FCHS b/c Jackson will still draw kids for AAP. But, it is going to be lean more towards FCHS's numbers --- of course, that is to be expected b/c Jackson is, in fact, THE ONLY middle school feeder for FCHS. So, it really should be a reflection of FCHS!

Even with that demographic outcome -- which is really who FCHS kids are --- you will still have people who are very supportive and excited about LJMS b/c their kids are getting good teachers and they are doing very well (especially b/c of the AAP influence). Do you really think the reputation that has been built over the years is going to suddenly tank? It is not.

When you buy in FCHS pyramid, you are getting the FCHS-pyramid experience from MS on.

FWIW - regarding SATs, the white kids at Falls Church (which would be the same demographic as you will now see at Jackson) have average SAT scores on par with Hayfield, Centerville, Edison and others. It's not super great, but not bad either. (based on the scores posted on FCPS profiles).

So, yes, the school as a whole will seem more ESOL/FARMS, but those who aren't dealing with those challenges are doing o.k. Contrast that with the white kids at Lee -- who are scoring a full 100+ points lower (on average). It's not the same thing. Falls Church HS IS what you can expect at Jackson (after rezoning). You don't need to imagine doom and gloom. Jackson will be no worse than Falls Church HS for the non-AAP kids.... and on the whole, it will still look better than Falls Church HS b/c of the AAP bump.

This is incorrect. Poe is a split feeder to Annandale and Falls Church.

FCPS has turned Poe/Annandale from stable schools to schools where the poverty rates are shooting through the roof. It's crazy they've decided to replicate that at Jackson (the only difference being that Jackson will get a dwindling number of AAP kids from Thoreau, while Poe sends AAP kids to Frost and Glasgow).

Through its boundaries and AAP program, Jackson had shored up Falls Church HS, but that will come to an end. The only positives are the close-in location (Mosaic is less important than the proximity to Tysons and the Dunn Loring metro) and the fact that Falls Church HS is scheduled for a major renovation soon. Otherwise FCPS is killing that pyramid, just like it did to Annandale.

Genuinely curious, what evidence do you have that Jackson had shored up Falls Church HS?

I've lived in this area a very long time, and back in the day Jackson had an absolutely terrible reputation, much worse than that of Falls Church. Jackson's boundary was much the same as it was prior to the recent boundary changes, and it included the Oakton, Mosby Woods, and Marshall Road areas. Having those areas attend Jackson didn't help its reputation at all. What finally improved Jackson's reputation was adding the AAP center. I don't really feel like Falls Church's reputation has changed at all. If there are changes in Falls Church's reputation, they seem to depend on how strong the current principal is, not anything going on at Jackson.

Yes, the AAP center did bolster it, however it is now becoming diluted because of Thoreau's program. About 10 years ago, they shifted the Madison AAP kids from Kilmer to Jackson in order to bolster the school, so it's pretty obvious that Jackson needs a strong AAP center to have a decent reputation or the neighborhoods need to improve. I don't understand why they would move AAP children over to that school to bolster it only later to allow them to attend their more segregated base school.

Falls Church is a prime location, so at some point if the schools remain stable, the house prices should increase and we'll see Falls Church High improve as well. Hopefully the renovation will be a catalyst.