Cogat culturally biased?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused.. People are complaining that these tests are "culturally biased" on the one hand and yet, Asians are doing extremely well on these tests. Are the Asians creating these tests? Do they have pictures of Samosas and Elephants?

Uffff! Your face is a samosa! Asians do not make excuses!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused.. People are complaining that these tests are "culturally biased" on the one hand and yet, Asians are doing extremely well on these tests. Are the Asians creating these tests? Do they have pictures of Samosas and Elephants?

And Asians never complain about anything - go figure!

Asians complain about the "Asian penalty" in college admissions. The problem is that the schools keep insisting that the only prep necessary is a good night's sleep and breakfast. Unfortunately, nonAsians listen to that. The schools have stigmatized prepping for the CogAT and the NNAT. Most Asians come from a culture where prepping and prepping some more is the norm. They ignore the schools and prep, as should everyone else.

It's common sense to prep, I don't know if you need to be Asian to realize this. I mean, I'm not Asian and it never occurred to me NOT to prep. I will also say that schools don't really tell you much on the subject so I don't think it's fair to describe it as stigmatization. They simply don't give the subject much attention at all. I never heard anyone say explicitly "please don't prep".

FCPS says on it's website that the only prep that's necessary is a good breakfast and a good night's sleep. Ask your AART about prepping and see what they say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused.. People are complaining that these tests are "culturally biased" on the one hand and yet, Asians are doing extremely well on these tests. Are the Asians creating these tests? Do they have pictures of Samosas and Elephants?

And Asians never complain about anything - go figure!

Asians complain about the "Asian penalty" in college admissions. The problem is that the schools keep insisting that the only prep necessary is a good night's sleep and breakfast. Unfortunately, nonAsians listen to that. The schools have stigmatized prepping for the CogAT and the NNAT. Most Asians come from a culture where prepping and prepping some more is the norm. They ignore the schools and prep, as should everyone else.

"Good night's rest and breakfast" is traditional advice for ALL tests. When did that become code for "Fairfax county says no prepping"? Who are they afraid of offending? If they really man "don't prep", I'm sure they will say just that. You guys are killing me..

No one says that's all that is necessary for the SATs or PSATs, for example. They encourage those things, but they also encourage prepping. The school even offer prep classes. You can pretend that you don't know that FCPS is trying to discourage prepping all you want, but you know they are. The CogAT, unlike the SAT, cannot be taken more than once within a certain time period because of the bias in scores based on recent exposure to the test. Having said that, I don't care if people prep, I just think it's disingenuous for highly intelligent people to pretend that they don't know that the test is supposed to be based on natural responses rather than having done similar problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused.. People are complaining that these tests are "culturally biased" on the one hand and yet, Asians are doing extremely well on these tests. Are the Asians creating these tests? Do they have pictures of Samosas and Elephants?

And Asians never complain about anything - go figure!

Asians complain about the "Asian penalty" in college admissions. The problem is that the schools keep insisting that the only prep necessary is a good night's sleep and breakfast. Unfortunately, nonAsians listen to that. The schools have stigmatized prepping for the CogAT and the NNAT. Most Asians come from a culture where prepping and prepping some more is the norm. They ignore the schools and prep, as should everyone else.

"Good night's rest and breakfast" is traditional advice for ALL tests. When did that become code for "Fairfax county says no prepping"? Who are they afraid of offending? If they really man "don't prep", I'm sure they will say just that. You guys are killing me..

No one says that's all that is necessary for the SATs or PSATs, for example. They encourage those things, but they also encourage prepping. The school even offer prep classes. You can pretend that you don't know that FCPS is trying to discourage prepping all you want, but you know they are. The CogAT, unlike the SAT, cannot be taken more than once within a certain time period because of the bias in scores based on recent exposure to the test. Having said that, I don't care if people prep, I just think it's disingenuous for highly intelligent people to pretend that they don't know that the test is supposed to be based on natural responses rather than having done similar problems.

Only loons prep for the PSAT and once upon a time, prepping for the SATs was not a thing. There is absolutely no reason to ruin the Cogat, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Only loons prep for the PSAT and once upon a time, prepping for the SATs was not a thing. There is absolutely no reason to ruin the Cogat, too.

Yeah, well, once upon a time I was told that US was a land of merit and opportunity. That is no longer the case. In fact you can be a complete loon, a person who sexually assaults women, serial adulterer, racist, misogynist and utterly lacking in any brainpower and can be elected to the highest office in this land. So merit is not important but race and gender is.

Also, this kind of no-prep bullshit can work for a White male but it sure is not going to work for an Asian female. We are still expected to outperform all groups.

God, what I would not give for a plate of hot samosas and gulab jamuns right now with my coffee...

[Anonymous]

FCPS says on it's website that the only prep that's necessary is a good breakfast and a good night's sleep. Ask your AART about prepping and see what they say.

It is telling that people who advocate "prepping" will typically bristle when the suggestion is made to discuss prepping for these first and second grade tests with the child's teacher or AART. They will declare that that is private information and there is no need to share those details with anyone at the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How hard is it to figure out that a shoemaker is a person who makes shoes? That one seems pretty obvious.

To a 4 year old?

Only if his genes are white, obviously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Only loons prep for the PSAT and once upon a time, prepping for the SATs was not a thing. There is absolutely no reason to ruin the Cogat, too.

Yeah, well, once upon a time I was told that US was a land of merit and opportunity. That is no longer the case. In fact you can be a complete loon, a person who sexually assaults women, serial adulterer, racist, misogynist and utterly lacking in any brainpower and can be elected to the highest office in this land. So merit is not important but race and gender is.

Also, this kind of no-prep bullshit can work for a White male but it sure is not going to work for an Asian female. We are still expected to outperform all groups.

God, what I would not give for a plate of hot samosas and gulab jamuns right now with my coffee...

If you leave there for here, why are you bringing there here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Only loons prep for the PSAT and once upon a time, prepping for the SATs was not a thing. There is absolutely no reason to ruin the Cogat, too.

Yeah, well, once upon a time I was told that US was a land of merit and opportunity. That is no longer the case. In fact you can be a complete loon, a person who sexually assaults women, serial adulterer, racist, misogynist and utterly lacking in any brainpower and can be elected to the highest office in this land. So merit is not important but race and gender is.

Also, this kind of no-prep bullshit can work for a White male but it sure is not going to work for an Asian female. We are still expected to outperform all groups.

God, what I would not give for a plate of hot samosas and gulab jamuns right now with my coffee...

If you leave there for here, why are you bringing there here?

You brought your bratwurst and coleslaw, dincha?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused.. People are complaining that these tests are "culturally biased" on the one hand and yet, Asians are doing extremely well on these tests. Are the Asians creating these tests? Do they have pictures of Samosas and Elephants?

And Asians never complain about anything - go figure!

Asians complain about the "Asian penalty" in college admissions. The problem is that the schools keep insisting that the only prep necessary is a good night's sleep and breakfast. Unfortunately, nonAsians listen to that. The schools have stigmatized prepping for the CogAT and the NNAT. Most Asians come from a culture where prepping and prepping some more is the norm. They ignore the schools and prep, as should everyone else.

It's common sense to prep, I don't know if you need to be Asian to realize this. I mean, I'm not Asian and it never occurred to me NOT to prep. I will also say that schools don't really tell you much on the subject so I don't think it's fair to describe it as stigmatization. They simply don't give the subject much attention at all. I never heard anyone say explicitly "please don't prep".

FCPS says on it's website that the only prep that's necessary is a good breakfast and a good night's sleep. Ask your AART about prepping and see what they say.

Do you ask your AART what color underwear your kid should wear? Do you discuss all your kids activiities with their school teacher or AART? If so, why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused.. People are complaining that these tests are "culturally biased" on the one hand and yet, Asians are doing extremely well on these tests. Are the Asians creating these tests? Do they have pictures of Samosas and Elephants?

And Asians never complain about anything - go figure!

Asians complain about the "Asian penalty" in college admissions. The problem is that the schools keep insisting that the only prep necessary is a good night's sleep and breakfast. Unfortunately, nonAsians listen to that. The schools have stigmatized prepping for the CogAT and the NNAT. Most Asians come from a culture where prepping and prepping some more is the norm. They ignore the schools and prep, as should everyone else.

"Good night's rest and breakfast" is traditional advice for ALL tests. When did that become code for "Fairfax county says no prepping"? Who are they afraid of offending? If they really man "don't prep", I'm sure they will say just that. You guys are killing me..

No one says that's all that is necessary for the SATs or PSATs, for example. They encourage those things, but they also encourage prepping. The school even offer prep classes. You can pretend that you don't know that FCPS is trying to discourage prepping all you want, but you know they are. The CogAT, unlike the SAT, cannot be taken more than once within a certain time period because of the bias in scores based on recent exposure to the test. Having said that, I don't care if people prep, I just think it's disingenuous for highly intelligent people to pretend that they don't know that the test is supposed to be based on natural responses rather than having done similar problems.

You are confusing things here. Most school districts want their kids to score real high on the PSAT and SATs. PSATs results in national scholarships, SATs results in good college admissions. The credit goes to the school district and someone else (scholarship providers, colleges, etc) bear the cost (of scholarships, etc). They are also national level tests, difficult for most people and therefore they encourage you to prep. However, this advice starts way before the test. On the night before the test, the advice is always "rest and good breakfast", not "prep some more".

With the COGAT, the school district couldn't care less whether 10 kids qualify or 1000. They will get the money needed to fund the program. It's actually more work for them in a way if too many kids qualify. As well, these are easier tests. So there is no explicit advice to prep. The night before the test, advice is always "rest and good breakfast".

I have honestly never come across anyone within FCPS tell me EXPLICITLY that prepping is discouraged. On DCUM on the other hand..

[Anonymous]

Doesn’t a school lose money when kids leave for the center school. It seems like a disincentive to have kids score high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

FCPS says on it's website that the only prep that's necessary is a good breakfast and a good night's sleep. Ask your AART about prepping and see what they say.

It is telling that people who advocate "prepping" will typically bristle when the suggestion is made to discuss prepping for these first and second grade tests with the child's teacher or AART. They will declare that that is private information and there is no need to share those details with anyone at the school.

Do you ask your AART what color underwear your kid should wear? Do you discuss all your kids activiities with their school teacher or AART? If so, why?

See, this is the type of reply that is posted when someone suggests discussing prepping with the child's teachers or AART.

And, as a matter of fact, I did always discuss my children's activities with their teachers when they were in elementary school because I thought it was helpful for the teacher to know what they were involved in outside of school. Many of the teachers asked about what the kids liked to do outside of school at conferences. A teacher can do more to help a child learn when the teacher knows more about the child's likes and dislikes and what the child enjoys spending time doing.

[Anonymous]

It's not cheating if you don't get caught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
"Good night's rest and breakfast" is traditional advice for ALL tests. When did that become code for "Fairfax county says no prepping"? Who are they afraid of offending? If they really man "don't prep", I'm sure they will say just that. You guys are killing me..

It's not a fairfax county thing at all. Ability tests have been normed with kids who did not prep and have never seen the questions, other than the sample questions from the test manufacturer. Prepping for the test makes the result invalid. If your kid preps for the CogAT and scores at the 98th percentile, your child is not truly at the 98th percentile. If that same child's scores had been normed against a sample of kids who did prep, the percentile rank would be much lower. The creator of the CogAT pretty much states that prepping makes the scores invalid. http://faculty.education.uiowa.edu/docs/default-source/dlohman/thoughts-on-policies-to-mitigate-effects-of-practice-tests-and-coaching.pdf?sfvrsn=2

That being said, a "no prepping" policy is completely unenforceable. So, FCPS should just urge everyone to prep, recommend some prep workbooks, and hope that the artificial score inflation will be more or less equal for all students so they can correctly identify the true top 15-20%.