Bethesda vs Kensington

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP
If you want actual data on the schools you are considering here are two resources:

Schools at a glance reports are available here:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/

Detailed report on SAT scores and participation rate broken down by high school and also by various groups within each school is available here. It is a long report but worth paying attention to some of the tables, notably the appendix starting page 13:

https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

I remember a discussion about this topic a few months back. Here was the gist of it.

The PP's intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate by cohort which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools.

For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

Blair 1326
B-CC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257
Wheaton 1173
Einstein 1148

The data is for the largest cohort common to the aforementioned schools on page 16.
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

That list isn't quite honest, The actually ratios of those demographics matter. There simply aren't as many middle class white kids at a school like blair and many of those are magnet kids for other districts. Where BCC is almost all of these types of kids so the stat means a little more. Blair's scores as a whole even counting the mag kids are much much lower.

This was previously covered too, and it was shown there were roughly only 32 out of boundary magnet students in that cohort.

Here’s a ballpark attempt to eliminate the out of boundary magnet scores from Blair’s SAT average for the largest common cohort.

1526 Blair Magnet SAT average
1326 Blair SAT average score for common cohort
250 total number of kids from cohort that took SAT
32 number of out of boundary magnet kids from cohort that took the SAT
where “x” is Blair’s in boundary SAT average for largest common cohort

(250 - 32) / 250 = 87% non-magnet cohort total
13% magnet % of cohort total

0.85x + 0.13 * 1526 = 1326
0.87x + 198 = 1326
0.9x = 1326 – 198
x = (1326 – 198) / 0.87 = 1296 SAT average without

Blair’s SAT average for the largest cohort common to those schools even without magnet scores is still respectable, but mostly aside the point that these schools are pretty much the same when looking at similar cohorts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP

I remember a discussion about this topic a few months back. Here was the gist of it.

The PP's intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate by cohort which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools.

For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

Blair 1326
B-CC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257
Wheaton 1173
Einstein 1148

The data is for the largest cohort common to the aforementioned schools on page 16.
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

This data really sheds some light on the subject. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

When you look at something like SATs as opposed to raw averages, it quickly becomes clear the Great Schools narrative is just propaganda used to sew fear and prop up real estate prices. When people realize a college-bound student will end up with a strong education at any of these schools, there's no reason to overpay for a place in Potomac.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you look at something like SATs as opposed to raw averages, it quickly becomes clear the Great Schools narrative is just propaganda used to sew fear and prop up real estate prices. When people realize a college-bound student will end up with a strong education at any of these schools, there's no reason to overpay for a place in Potomac.

Unless you want the very best schools. I do; do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP
If you want actual data on the schools you are considering here are two resources:

Schools at a glance reports are available here:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/

Detailed report on SAT scores and participation rate broken down by high school and also by various groups within each school is available here. It is a long report but worth paying attention to some of the tables, notably the appendix starting page 13:

https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

I remember a discussion about this topic a few months back. Here was the gist of it.

The PP's intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate by cohort which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools.

For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

Blair 1326
B-CC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257
Wheaton 1173
Einstein 1148

The data is for the largest cohort common to the aforementioned schools on page 16.
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

That list isn't quite honest, The actually ratios of those demographics matter. There simply aren't as many middle class white kids at a school like blair and many of those are magnet kids for other districts. Where BCC is almost all of these types of kids so the stat means a little more. Blair's scores as a whole even counting the mag kids are much much lower.

This was previously covered too, and it was shown there were roughly only 32 out of boundary magnet students in that cohort.

Here’s a ballpark attempt to eliminate the out of boundary magnet scores from Blair’s SAT average for the largest common cohort.

1526 Blair Magnet SAT average
1326 Blair SAT average score for common cohort
250 total number of kids from cohort that took SAT
32 number of out of boundary magnet kids from cohort that took the SAT
where “x” is Blair’s in boundary SAT average for largest common cohort

(250 - 32) / 250 = 87% non-magnet cohort total
13% magnet % of cohort total

0.85x + 0.13 * 1526 = 1326
0.87x + 198 = 1326
0.9x = 1326 – 198
x = (1326 – 198) / 0.87 = 1296 SAT average without

Blair’s SAT average for the largest cohort common to those schools even without magnet scores is still respectable, but mostly aside the point that these schools are pretty much the same when looking at similar cohorts.

Agree. The teachers and students in my magnet child's non magnet honors and AP classes has been great.
If you look at page 19 on the report you see a table which evaluates the number and percentage of students who meet college readiness benchmarks wrt SAT scores. For MCPS the % of FARMs students who took the SAT test and met the benchmark was 32%.
The schools that have more than 50 FARMs students taking the SAT are:
Blair, Blake, Clarksburg, Einstein, Gaithersburg, Kennedy, Richard Montgomery, Northwest, Northwood, PaintBranch, Springbrook and Wheaton.
Of these only Blair, Clarksburg, Richard Montgomery, Northwest and Paintbranch showed this group of students exceeding the average (ie more than 32% meeting the college readiness benchmark). I remember from another thread that Blair, Clarksburg and Richard Montgomery also had this same group doing well wrt AP scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looking at Kensington, I read that a new HS may open and may not be as good. I know we have many years and a lot of things may change, but in general, I want to get a feeling of the community and neighborhood. As I think if other like-minded people live in the neighborhood they may have this as their priority and somehow keep the school quality high.

I live in Wheaton and there are loads of parents at the school who value education and community. There has beens some concern expressed here and on the Real Estate forums about some of us leaking into Woodard. If you want to pay a 150-300k premium to segregate your children from mine...by all means go do it.

The biggest challenge for us parents outside of the W school zones is actually the occasional teacher who shares your mindset and either conciously or subconsciously imposes a ceiling on the expectations of students in the classroom as they assume that we don’t hold education as a priority because of the neighborhood where we live. The curriculum is the same, but the fidelity of implementing it is not often the case if the teacher approaches the class with a preconceived notion that the students will only have only low wage outcomes post education. Ultimately we are not “buying into” a good school, but rather rolling up our sleeves and working hard to make sure the teachers are providing the learning environment all students deserve regardless of SES.

Best wishes with your move wherever you choose to buy.

W zones - have you been paying attention? Whitman is a 4. BCC is a 7. Churchill students can barely count. W are overrated by any factual measure.

What are your "factual measures"? I thought so. Jealous moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - You are looking at some of the most segregated parts of the county, and seem determined to limit your search to those schools. That's fine, although it will be a stretch to get what you are looking for at that cost point with that level of segregation.

But your casual invocation of conventional wisdom like "The new high school won't be as good" belies your stated desire for a school that is diverse and values hard work.

You are either a troll and not really moving to the area, or you have been reading WAY too much DCUM. Woodward will be FINE, and the only reason people think it might not be is that it would bve slightly Blacker and browner than other schools in that part of the county.

Oh, and take care when folks talk about their schools as a "mini United Nations" and know what that means. It means a very small subset of tolerable People of Color, all of whom were educated at the same 5 universities, and have therefore proven they are allowed to hang out with the white folks.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP
If you want actual data on the schools you are considering here are two resources:

Schools at a glance reports are available here:
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/glance/

Detailed report on SAT scores and participation rate broken down by high school and also by various groups within each school is available here. It is a long report but worth paying attention to some of the tables, notably the appendix starting page 13:

https://montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2017/1771102HS%20Princ_SAT%20Partic_Perf%20Class%20of%202017.pdf

I remember a discussion about this topic a few months back. Here was the gist of it.

The PP's intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate by cohort which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools.

For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

Blair 1326
B-CC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257
Wheaton 1173
Einstein 1148

The data is for the largest cohort common to the aforementioned schools on page 16.
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

That list isn't quite honest, The actually ratios of those demographics matter. There simply aren't as many middle class white kids at a school like blair and many of those are magnet kids for other districts. Where BCC is almost all of these types of kids so the stat means a little more. Blair's scores as a whole even counting the mag kids are much much lower.

This was previously covered too, and it was shown there were roughly only 32 out of boundary magnet students in that cohort.

Here’s a ballpark attempt to eliminate the out of boundary magnet scores from Blair’s SAT average for the largest common cohort.

1526 Blair Magnet SAT average
1326 Blair SAT average score for common cohort
250 total number of kids from cohort that took SAT
32 number of out of boundary magnet kids from cohort that took the SAT
where “x” is Blair’s in boundary SAT average for largest common cohort

(250 - 32) / 250 = 87% non-magnet cohort total
13% magnet % of cohort total

0.85x + 0.13 * 1526 = 1326
0.87x + 198 = 1326
0.9x = 1326 – 198
x = (1326 – 198) / 0.87 = 1296 SAT average without

Blair’s SAT average for the largest cohort common to those schools even without magnet scores is still respectable, but mostly aside the point that these schools are pretty much the same when looking at similar cohorts.

Only 250 gifted kids out of a school of 3200 and you wonder why people look down on it? Unless you are in one of the magnet classes well you get the real blair flavor. But go ahead and be proud, I get it you didn’t have a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you look at something like SATs as opposed to raw averages, it quickly becomes clear the Great Schools narrative is just propaganda used to sew fear and prop up real estate prices. When people realize a college-bound student will end up with a strong education at any of these schools, there's no reason to overpay for a place in Potomac.

Unless you want the very best schools. I do; do you?

I don’t believe that the schools in Potomac are the “very best” because I don’t think high test scores tell us anything about a school other than that it’s students test high.

[Anonymous]

Reconcile that everyone in the W’s for the most part could live not only live in any school zone in the DCC but live in the nicest neighborhoods or have their picks of houses or schools. Most if not all in the DCC are simply doing the best they can and everything is out of reach. Do you really think you are smarter or privy to some insight about the cheaper part of town that all the highest functioning and resource flush residents of the county aren’t aware of?

But cling to your speculative and confused statistics, it’s all just sour grapes. If really was that great people would move there and price you out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you look at something like SATs as opposed to raw averages, it quickly becomes clear the Great Schools narrative is just propaganda used to sew fear and prop up real estate prices. When people realize a college-bound student will end up with a strong education at any of these schools, there's no reason to overpay for a place in Potomac.

Unless you want the very best schools. I do; do you?

Last I knew Whitman was a GS 4, but if that sounds great to you, by all means, get less for more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember a discussion about this topic a few months back. Here was the gist of it.

The PP's intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate by cohort which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools.

For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

Blair 1326
B-CC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257
Wheaton 1173
Einstein 1148

The data is for the largest cohort common to the aforementioned schools on page 16.
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Here’s a ballpark attempt to eliminate the out of boundary magnet scores from Blair’s SAT average for the largest common cohort.

1526 Blair Magnet SAT average
1326 Blair SAT average score for common cohort
250 total number of kids from cohort that took SAT
32 number of out of boundary magnet kids from cohort that took the SAT
where “x” is Blair’s in boundary SAT average for largest common cohort

(250 - 32) / 250 = 87% non-magnet cohort total
13% magnet % of cohort total

0.85x + 0.13 * 1526 = 1326
0.87x + 198 = 1326
0.9x = 1326 – 198
x = (1326 – 198) / 0.87 = 1296 SAT average without

Blair’s SAT average for the largest cohort common to those schools even without magnet scores is still respectable, but mostly aside the point that these schools are pretty much the same when looking at similar cohorts.

So what if non-magnet Blair tops the W's, at least we don't live near poor people!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you look at something like SATs as opposed to raw averages, it quickly becomes clear the Great Schools narrative is just propaganda used to sew fear and prop up real estate prices. When people realize a college-bound student will end up with a strong education at any of these schools, there's no reason to overpay for a place in Potomac.

Unless you want the very best schools. I do; do you?

Last I knew Whitman was a GS 4, but if that sounds great to you, by all means, get less for more.

You are woefully ignorant, dream on.

[Anonymous]

Hi,

OP here. This is my first reply after the original question.
First of all, thank you, everyone, for your comments, links for extra reading and resources.
I asked this question in the real-estate forum and someone told me this topic was up a few months back and I also found her question and read through the comments. (http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/736911.page)

I really appreciate your engagement and was not expecting to stir the pot this much. The reason we're choosing this location was that based on our work location, metro and highway system on the Google Maps this area (Red line from Bethesda to Grosvenor and White Flint) is kind of in the middle of our daily commute. And based on initial reviews and pricing on the online real estate websites (RedFin/Zillow) we saw we can find houses in our price range.

Considering the age of our daughter it seems all of these schools and potentially future high schools are "good enough". And per someone's comment, it would be best for us to come here and walk around each neighborhood and get a feeling of which one we like more to live in.

I certainly don't want our daughter to be the token international student at their school, rather feel she's studying among friends. When I mentioned we value education and hard work, I meant that we will make sure she studies hard and understands the benefits of it. But at the same time, I like her friends to be like her.
Both of us grew up in an environment that going to college was normal and all of our friends and family thought that way. So I don't want her to go to a school that majority don't think that way. Additionally, I found it great that many people mentioned some of the schools value art as much as STEM.

Moreover, we look at this house purchase (as this is a lot of money for us) as a VERY big financial decision and prefer to live here for a very long time but also don't lose a lot on the value of the house. So part of the reason for looking for a good school district is to make sure the house value doesn't drop. From what I read, I don't see how the new high school would be bad (or good for that matter) the current evidence shows that there is a dire need for more high schools in the area and with the price of housing and engaging parents that school would be a good one in the long term.

I have one more question. I saw people mentioned Magnet schools. Are those charter schools or some form of it? Is there an entrance exam or lottery of some sort to enter those schools?