Did the Takoma MS magnet got MORE white this year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. There is real evidence that Asians need to score higher to get into these programs. Just like they have to score higher to get into the same colleges, or medical schools.

No, not just like. Unlike colleges or medical schools, MCPS is not allowed to use race as a factor in admissions decisions. And the people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions did not know the racial/ethnic categories of the applicants.

They could guess. If you used to accept 15 kids from Cold Spring into Takoma and all of them were Asian in the past you could guess that if you only accepted 1-2 of them this year by claiming there is a "strong peer cohort" then you would have 13-14 additional slots for non-Asian kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. There is real evidence that Asians need to score higher to get into these programs. Just like they have to score higher to get into the same colleges, or medical schools.

No, not just like. Unlike colleges or medical schools, MCPS is not allowed to use race as a factor in admissions decisions. And the people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions did not know the racial/ethnic categories of the applicants.

They could guess. If you used to accept 15 kids from Cold Spring into Takoma and all of them were Asian in the past you could guess that if you only accepted 1-2 of them this year by claiming there is a "strong peer cohort" then you would have 13-14 additional slots for non-Asian kids.

The people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions also did not know which elementary schools the applicants attended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. There is real evidence that Asians need to score higher to get into these programs. Just like they have to score higher to get into the same colleges, or medical schools.

No, not just like. Unlike colleges or medical schools, MCPS is not allowed to use race as a factor in admissions decisions. And the people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions did not know the racial/ethnic categories of the applicants.

They could guess. If you used to accept 15 kids from Cold Spring into Takoma and all of them were Asian in the past you could guess that if you only accepted 1-2 of them this year by claiming there is a "strong peer cohort" then you would have 13-14 additional slots for non-Asian kids.

The people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions also did not know which elementary schools the applicants attended.

Overall I thought the county took a big step in the right direction with its changes to the admissions. Sure, it may not be perfect but more kids benefit even ones with a strong cohort at their home schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. There is real evidence that Asians need to score higher to get into these programs. Just like they have to score higher to get into the same colleges, or medical schools.

No, not just like. Unlike colleges or medical schools, MCPS is not allowed to use race as a factor in admissions decisions. And the people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions did not know the racial/ethnic categories of the applicants.

They could guess. If you used to accept 15 kids from Cold Spring into Takoma and all of them were Asian in the past you could guess that if you only accepted 1-2 of them this year by claiming there is a "strong peer cohort" then you would have 13-14 additional slots for non-Asian kids.

The people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions also did not know which elementary schools the applicants attended.

could you cite all the sources that claim this? If they didn't where the students' home schools were, then how would they know whether that student had a cohort in the home school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. There is real evidence that Asians need to score higher to get into these programs. Just like they have to score higher to get into the same colleges, or medical schools.

No, not just like. Unlike colleges or medical schools, MCPS is not allowed to use race as a factor in admissions decisions. And the people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions did not know the racial/ethnic categories of the applicants.

They could guess. If you used to accept 15 kids from Cold Spring into Takoma and all of them were Asian in the past you could guess that if you only accepted 1-2 of them this year by claiming there is a "strong peer cohort" then you would have 13-14 additional slots for non-Asian kids.

The people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions also did not know which elementary schools the applicants attended.

Overall I thought the county took a big step in the right direction with its changes to the admissions. Sure, it may not be perfect but more kids benefit even ones with a strong cohort at their home schools.

If that is your metric sure, but it still doesn't negate that the bar was lowered and again, if I'm wrong, then MCPS should publish the median test scores of accepted students.

But, I disagree that kids from strong cohort schools are better off with this method. The added one or two classes won't be as high a caliber as those in the magnet schools. One or two "enriched" classes doesn't make a magnet program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. There is real evidence that Asians need to score higher to get into these programs. Just like they have to score higher to get into the same colleges, or medical schools.

No, not just like. Unlike colleges or medical schools, MCPS is not allowed to use race as a factor in admissions decisions. And the people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions did not know the racial/ethnic categories of the applicants.

They could guess. If you used to accept 15 kids from Cold Spring into Takoma and all of them were Asian in the past you could guess that if you only accepted 1-2 of them this year by claiming there is a "strong peer cohort" then you would have 13-14 additional slots for non-Asian kids.

The people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions also did not know which elementary schools the applicants attended.

could you cite all the sources that claim this? If they didn't where the students' home schools were, then how would they know whether that student had a cohort in the home school?

NP: Do your research and search other threads: there was an info memo from AEI that explained the process and it was also stated at the recent meeting about magnets. They didn't look at the home ES school, they looked at the home MS school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone else take a look at the numbers on the slides from the AEI meeting? It looks like the pool of students tested was 31% white. Of those invited to Takoma, 39% were white. That compares to 35% white in 2017. How did we just spend millions of dollars on trying to create more diversity and end up with this? Am I missing something?

How does one "spend millions to create more diversity?" You mean millions on some silly study to try to justify lowering standards and racially and ethnically diversifying admittance into special bespoke programs for gifted children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. There is real evidence that Asians need to score higher to get into these programs. Just like they have to score higher to get into the same colleges, or medical schools.

No, not just like. Unlike colleges or medical schools, MCPS is not allowed to use race as a factor in admissions decisions. And the people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions did not know the racial/ethnic categories of the applicants.

They could guess. If you used to accept 15 kids from Cold Spring into Takoma and all of them were Asian in the past you could guess that if you only accepted 1-2 of them this year by claiming there is a "strong peer cohort" then you would have 13-14 additional slots for non-Asian kids.

The people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions also did not know which elementary schools the applicants attended.

could you cite all the sources that claim this? If they didn't where the students' home schools were, then how would they know whether that student had a cohort in the home school?

This has been covered, but let us cover it again. They knew what middle school those children WOULD BE attending based on their address, but not which elementary school they were leaving.

So, since you insist on focusing on Cold Spring, the evaluators knew that Child Y was slated for Cabin John MS. Since Cabin John is plurality white, it seems like a hard case to make that kids slated to attend Cabin John were discriminated against for being Asian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Less interested in YOY change. How does TPMS magnet demographics compare to the county’s?

Wrong question. Like asking how many people ran 100m in less than 10 seconds to a group of runners consisting of gifted athletes + everyone else.

How does TPMS magnet demographics compare to the county's test score distribution by demographic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone else take a look at the numbers on the slides from the AEI meeting? It looks like the pool of students tested was 31% white. Of those invited to Takoma, 39% were white. That compares to 35% white in 2017. How did we just spend millions of dollars on trying to create more diversity and end up with this? Am I missing something?

How does one "spend millions to create more diversity?" You mean millions on some silly study to try to justify lowering standards and racially and ethnically diversifying admittance into special bespoke programs for gifted children?

I don't think that bespoke means what you think it means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. There is real evidence that Asians need to score higher to get into these programs. Just like they have to score higher to get into the same colleges, or medical schools.

No, not just like. Unlike colleges or medical schools, MCPS is not allowed to use race as a factor in admissions decisions. And the people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions did not know the racial/ethnic categories of the applicants.

They could guess. If you used to accept 15 kids from Cold Spring into Takoma and all of them were Asian in the past you could guess that if you only accepted 1-2 of them this year by claiming there is a "strong peer cohort" then you would have 13-14 additional slots for non-Asian kids.

The people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions also did not know which elementary schools the applicants attended.

could you cite all the sources that claim this? If they didn't where the students' home schools were, then how would they know whether that student had a cohort in the home school?

This has been covered, but let us cover it again. They knew what middle school those children WOULD BE attending based on their address, but not which elementary school they were leaving.

So, since you insist on focusing on Cold Spring, the evaluators knew that Child Y was slated for Cabin John MS. Since Cabin John is plurality white, it seems like a hard case to make that kids slated to attend Cabin John were discriminated against for being Asian.

What does it matter whether they knew the home ES or MS? Hoover and Frost have a high Asian/white population and very low URM one. Not hard to figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the correct question to ask is if the achievement gap was mystically closed this year. I think not.

No, that's not the correct question. Closing the achievement gap was not the purpose of the pilot change to the MS gifted magnet admissions process.

good joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
no.. all it did was lower the bar. If you really think it didn't, then you are ignoring the fact that MCPS no longer releases the median test scores of accepted students. One doesn't have to be gifted to figure out why that is. If I'm wrong, and those URM identified students have really high test scores, then why doesn't MCPS release the stats? It would prove to all the naysayers how this new method works better.

And the change was about "cohort" at home school. I don't think anyone is against testing more students. They are against lowering the bar and looking at "cohort".

No matter how many times you repeat that the new way didn't lower the bar, MCPS' own statistics will always prove you wrong.

The new method is pretty much just looking at cohort, and the test scores in relation to the cohort. You can argue that this is a better method or not, but if the method is admitting students with much lower scores than before, then yes, the new method has lowered the bar.

Back to the "the only way to increase the numbers of poor, black, and Hispanic kids is to admit dumber kids" line of argument.

Exactly - their argument isn't based on known facts but hinges on speculation.

As stated, if I'm wrong, why doesn't MCPS release those numbers. It's a bit like Trump and his tax returns. He doesn't want to release them because there's something in there that he doesn't want you to know about. Same with MCPS.

If this wasn't the only way to increase URM participation then why change the methodology? Why not just to implement the wider testing without changing the methodology or looking at the cohort? Seriously, you guys are ignoring the obvious.

Wasn't someone on another thread just bullying someone by saying prove that MCPS is not transparent? yet there are layers and layers of examples of no transparency with significant ramifications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This has been covered, but let us cover it again. They knew what middle school those children WOULD BE attending based on their address, but not which elementary school they were leaving.

So, since you insist on focusing on Cold Spring, the evaluators knew that Child Y was slated for Cabin John MS. Since Cabin John is plurality white, it seems like a hard case to make that kids slated to attend Cabin John were discriminated against for being Asian.

Right. The Cold Spring CES is for students in the Wootton and Churchill clusters. The middle schools in those clusters are: Hoover, Cabin John, Robert Frost. In each of these middle schools, the largest group in the MCPS race/ethnicity classification system is white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yep. There is real evidence that Asians need to score higher to get into these programs. Just like they have to score higher to get into the same colleges, or medical schools.

No, not just like. Unlike colleges or medical schools, MCPS is not allowed to use race as a factor in admissions decisions. And the people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions did not know the racial/ethnic categories of the applicants.

They could guess. If you used to accept 15 kids from Cold Spring into Takoma and all of them were Asian in the past you could guess that if you only accepted 1-2 of them this year by claiming there is a "strong peer cohort" then you would have 13-14 additional slots for non-Asian kids.

The people who made the Takoma/Eastern admissions decisions also did not know which elementary schools the applicants attended.

could you cite all the sources that claim this? If they didn't where the students' home schools were, then how would they know whether that student had a cohort in the home school?

This has been covered, but let us cover it again. They knew what middle school those children WOULD BE attending based on their address, but not which elementary school they were leaving.

So, since you insist on focusing on Cold Spring, the evaluators knew that Child Y was slated for Cabin John MS. Since Cabin John is plurality white, it seems like a hard case to make that kids slated to attend Cabin John were discriminated against for being Asian.

What does it matter whether they knew the home ES or MS? Hoover and Frost have a high Asian/white population and very low URM one. Not hard to figure it out.

It matters because MCPS applied the same "cohort" standard to Hoover, Frost, Cabin John, Westland, Silver Lake, and every other middle school with a large number of high performing kids. Now, you may disagree with the idea of a cohort, or that kids who are outliers at their schools *need* the curriculum more than kids who have a large group of similarly high fliers, but you cannot argue that kids zoned for Hoover were subject to a different standard than another middle school with similarly high-scoring kids.