Canadian Universities - What's the value?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Thank you for the cheap and condescending moralizing -- we will both agree that US students excel there.

What a well-rounded person would do is to look for data to either corroborate or refute my point -- look, I just did it for you:
http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/top_performers/2016/03/us_workforce_skills_even_worse_than_we_thought.html

Supposedly better-rounded Americans are worse at Problem-solving, Numeracy AND Literacy than adults in the majority of other industrialized nations.

I read the article. I've seen others over time (pretty much all of the past 20 years or so) and it's always putting down US education. However, in those 20 years, I have not seen any other country produce the amount of business or innovation as the US. Something does not compute. Where's the gap in my understanding?

Fair question.

First I could challenge the premise (over the last 20 years China has certainly created more business and innovation than the US or anyone else) but let's see through that

The real answer to your "gap" is that the US has the largest, most sophisticated and (in the private sector) most meritocrac system to allocate human and financial capital, combined with the right incentives to create and to innovate.

Which is why so many top foreign professionals want to come here (rarely at the undergrad level, often for postgrad and beyond)

What great innovations have come out of China in the past 20 years?

Copy&pasteology, IPtheftheftocraft, childlabor

Of late though, i've been reading articles about how they are now actually getting ahead of the US in the innovation business, a big shift from the IP theft they are so known for. Their inflection point is fast approaching. For the west, it was through theft of physical assets from other countries over centuries. For China, the inflection point is being enabled by theft of IP over a few decades..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canadian here. My McGill undergrad degree cost me $3k/yr in tuition and about $900/m in living expenses--that's in CAD, about 12 years ago. Foreign student tuition is higher, but not anywhere close to US levels. American friends who were in my cohort were paying about $10k/yr in tuition, same living expenses, still in CAD.

I had absolutely zero issues finding a job in the US--my degree is viewed as very prestigious. I also had zero issues getting a (top) Ivy grad degree.

It's a big school, but it really is great. A lot less coddling. Challenging courses, very bright peers (Canada has one of the top public school systems in the world). Montreal is a fantastic city.

This is not true any more. My kids are in university in Toronto. Tuition is $10k, residence and meal plan is another 10k.

You must be canadian. For non-canadians, tuition is about $45K CAD. Only McGill seems to have a variable tuition depending on the course of study. The rest follow the US model. You pay the same whether you go there to learn toilet cleaning or spaceship building.

[Anonymous]

What about grading at mcgill or uoft - is there a gpa hit compared to top us schools that would affect frad school entry back in the u. Does uoft kill your gpa? In arts amd scie ce or in engineering?

[Anonymous]

Correcting typos:

What about grading at mcgill or uoft - is there a gpa hit compared to top us schools that would affect grad school entry back in the us? Does uoft kill your gpa? In arts amd science or in engineering?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother never came back (and at this point, who could blame him .

This is one of the main advantages IMO of getting a degree in CA or UK. Options.

I'm not so sure most US employers have a favorable view of UK and CA universities. There seems to be this huge stigma in the US against foreign universities. I've known several people who went to college in Europe and South America. One person was able to get into a very good MBA program, but the others basically started over. But these schools were not at the level of Oxford or McGill. And Canada isnt all that great. The weather sucks, legal system is a nightmare, health care has major issues, but it's great if you love playing hockey!

Curious- in what way is the legal system a nightmare?

Probate was a nightmare, though this was a long time ago. I was just pointing out that Canada isn't exactly the cat's meow.

I think probate is a nightmare here too. And try navigating health insurance bills here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother never came back (and at this point, who could blame him .

This is one of the main advantages IMO of getting a degree in CA or UK. Options.

I'm not so sure most US employers have a favorable view of UK and CA universities. There seems to be this huge stigma in the US against foreign universities. I've known several people who went to college in Europe and South America. One person was able to get into a very good MBA program, but the others basically started over. But these schools were not at the level of Oxford or McGill. And Canada isnt all that great. The weather sucks, legal system is a nightmare, health care has major issues, but it's great if you love playing hockey!

Curious- in what way is the legal system a nightmare?

Probate was a nightmare, though this was a long time ago. I was just pointing out that Canada isn't exactly the cat's meow.

I think probate is a nightmare here too. And try navigating health insurance bills here.

And at least in CA you can get healthcare for free. And before someone claims CA healthcare sucks, our's is terrible too. Both my mother and sister had to wait over a month to see an Oncologist after they were diagnosed with cancer, and this is with expensive insurance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Correcting typos:

What about grading at mcgill or uoft - is there a gpa hit compared to top us schools that would affect grad school entry back in the us? Does uoft kill your gpa? In arts amd science or in engineering?

They don't inflate grades (unlike at many US schools). At McGill, when I was there, a 3.5 cumulative GPA was considered First Class Honours.

I had zero issues getting into an Ivy for grad, though. They seem to be aware that Canadian schools grade more harshly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother never came back (and at this point, who could blame him .

This is one of the main advantages IMO of getting a degree in CA or UK. Options.

I'm not so sure most US employers have a favorable view of UK and CA universities. There seems to be this huge stigma in the US against foreign universities. I've known several people who went to college in Europe and South America. One person was able to get into a very good MBA program, but the others basically started over. But these schools were not at the level of Oxford or McGill. And Canada isnt all that great. The weather sucks, legal system is a nightmare, health care has major issues, but it's great if you love playing hockey!

Curious- in what way is the legal system a nightmare?

Probate was a nightmare, though this was a long time ago. I was just pointing out that Canada isn't exactly the cat's meow.

I think probate is a nightmare here too. And try navigating health insurance bills here.

And at least in CA you can get healthcare for free. And before someone claims CA healthcare sucks, our's is terrible too. Both my mother and sister had to wait over a month to see an Oncologist after they were diagnosed with cancer, and this is with expensive insurance.

Then go move there if you think it's so great. I've dealt with both systems, and the frozen tundra is no Shangri la like posters are suggesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother never came back (and at this point, who could blame him .

This is one of the main advantages IMO of getting a degree in CA or UK. Options.

I'm not so sure most US employers have a favorable view of UK and CA universities. There seems to be this huge stigma in the US against foreign universities. I've known several people who went to college in Europe and South America. One person was able to get into a very good MBA program, but the others basically started over. But these schools were not at the level of Oxford or McGill. And Canada isnt all that great. The weather sucks, legal system is a nightmare, health care has major issues, but it's great if you love playing hockey!

Curious- in what way is the legal system a nightmare?

Probate was a nightmare, though this was a long time ago. I was just pointing out that Canada isn't exactly the cat's meow.

I think probate is a nightmare here too. And try navigating health insurance bills here.

And at least in CA you can get healthcare for free. And before someone claims CA healthcare sucks, our's is terrible too. Both my mother and sister had to wait over a month to see an Oncologist after they were diagnosed with cancer, and this is with expensive insurance.

Then go move there if you think it's so great. I've dealt with both systems, and the frozen tundra is no Shangri la like posters are suggesting.

No one has said their weather was fantastic, dummy. And if you hate it, then you don't have to go. No one is forcing you. Why are you even on this thread.

[Anonymous]

As a Canadian living in the US and working for 10 years with thousands of students in their college selection process, I came to a few conclusions on this subject. 1) There are around 4000 universities in the US, surely one of them should do the trick. 2. Americans have almost a religious passion for the US News rankings, and are impervious to facts that contradict this annual report. 3. I think at least 70% of students could benefit from at least applying to 1 Canadian university. 4. Very few US Universities have any meaningful alumni reach which would help you get a job after graduation, Canadian universities have zero. 5. US graduate schools have a long and clear understanding of Canadian U's and acceptance of qualified applicants is not a problem. There is no difference in classroom quality for things like accounting, engineering between Canada and the US. 6. Small private Liberal arts colleges in the US provide a uniquely high level of quality in the "arts." 7. Two noteworthy US weaknesses in higher education are: Lack of co-op $$$ and the cost of going to an out of state institution. Canada can help here. 8. Here are 2 picks for Washington area parents: U of Ottawa (lots of co-op), and Western U (American spirit in the canadian system). All the best..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother never came back (and at this point, who could blame him .

This is one of the main advantages IMO of getting a degree in CA or UK. Options.

I'm not so sure most US employers have a favorable view of UK and CA universities. There seems to be this huge stigma in the US against foreign universities. I've known several people who went to college in Europe and South America. One person was able to get into a very good MBA program, but the others basically started over. But these schools were not at the level of Oxford or McGill. And Canada isnt all that great. The weather sucks, legal system is a nightmare, health care has major issues, but it's great if you love playing hockey!

Curious- in what way is the legal system a nightmare?

Probate was a nightmare, though this was a long time ago. I was just pointing out that Canada isn't exactly the cat's meow.

I think probate is a nightmare here too. And try navigating health insurance bills here.

And at least in CA you can get healthcare for free. And before someone claims CA healthcare sucks, our's is terrible too. Both my mother and sister had to wait over a month to see an Oncologist after they were diagnosed with cancer, and this is with expensive insurance.

Then go move there if you think it's so great. I've dealt with both systems, and the frozen tundra is no Shangri la like posters are suggesting.

Ah, then you never made it to British Columbia. Avg winter temps are 45-50 F.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it really that much cheaper than the US? $40 McGill for Internationals and $45-50K at U Toronto?

A BA at McGill for an international student costs $19K Canadian, which is $14.5K US. Throw in another $900 US per month for room and board, and you're still under $25K.

Absolutely. Canada is a steal right now. We just attended accepted students night for McGill last night; DC was accepted for this fall. For the current year (17-18; new costs not out yet but their guess is 2.7% increase), a BA with room and board and all the health care and immigration fees (worst case for all we think) is still going to cost us only about $27.6K -- cheaper than UVa instate. Exchange rate definitely works in our favor. Plus they gave merit money. And we believe that McGill is certainly prestigious enough for what DC wants to do.

BTW, rankings for McGill and UofT vary depending on which one you look at; they struck us as equally rigorous overall (DC looked at, applied, and was accepted at both). UofT is in Toronto (which DC liked) and has twice as many students (which DC didn't). But both are excellent universities and compare very well for both cost and diversity to US schools.

Reviving this thread because I have a DC who is interested in McGill.

I know that U Toronto has an excellent undergrad math program. Is that also the case for McGill? And if so, I assume the degree would be a BA?

One of my concerns about McGill relates to room and board, because so many of the students live off-campus. Is that a potential problem, after freshman year?

I would be very grateful for anyone who has experience with McGill and/or U Toronto.

[Anonymous]

^^ To answer the recent poster, about McGill versus Toronto, I believe they both jocky for the #1 position at the top of the top 10 Canadian universities list and it has been this way for some time.

[Anonymous]

I had a series of interns working in my office from nearly all the universities in Quebec. They were consistently fabulous. Bilingual. Good writers, self starters (no handholding in the office - figured everything out themselves), creative, strong interpersonal skills. They went to Concordia, McGill, UQAM, Sherbrooke, Bishops, UdeM and Laval. The French speaking schools in Quebec will let you sit exams in English your first year if I am not mistaken, too.

I am a big fan. I've never sat in on a class at any of these schools - what I can tell you is that all these kids came out of them well prepared to succeed.

[Anonymous]

No affirmative action in the same sense as the us

That alone is a huge plus