MCPS Middle School writing: do you think expectations are in line with state standards

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I sent my child to a Catholic middle school. The writing in public school leaves a lot to be desired. STEM is better at his Catholic school too.

Not at the high school level. Only large public school systems with lots of funds can offer the variety they have.

My kids went to a public magnet. The variety of STEM classes was amazing and I appreciate the incredible opportunities they were given. However, I'm not sure that variety is the only determinant for "better".

I have no direct experience, whatsoever with private schools. My thoughts are therefore conjecture based on heresay.

I believe that MCPS is weak in it's general math, and to a lesser degree, science instruction. My understanding is that private schools tend to provide a stronger background. If a student can't pass an Algebra final (which many MCPS students couldn't - at least before finals were eliminated), they're not going to be ready for Physics, let alone Optics, Thermodynamics, Quantum Mechanics, etc. For those students, getting a solid foundation that allowed them to tackle a rigorous course might be better, even if there were less courses for them to choose from.

[Anonymous]

I agree with this and it’s true for writing mechanics too. Better to be able to solidly communicate — to be able
to produce any document in the service of your work in any field— than to be able to write a complex thesis. Kids need to be grounded in that before worrying about critiquing a work of literature in an AP lit class. More isn’t necessarily better for most kids. I went to a deficient public school and didn’t learn how to properly use a comma until grad school. I didn’t even know there was a right way!

[Anonymous]

It depends on the teacher. My daughter has had the same English teacher for two years now (7-8), and she's wonderful. Her 6th grade teacher was also good.

But if kids enter MS with no knowledge of basic skills - grammar, punctuation, spelling, and organizational patterns, thesis/claim statements - there's nothing a MS teacher can do, as too much time was lost. I don't ever blame schools for this; I blame the system for not allowing teachers to use their professional judgment to determine what's best for individual kids.

With h all 8th grade English classes as "advanced," it becomes even more difficult to 1) identify and help struggling students and 2) keep the truly advanced students from becoming bored.

My daughter sees the difference from one year to the next, as her peer group has shrunk. However, as an English teacher, I can help her stay on a high-level honors track.

bottom line - The system has a "one size fits all" mentality even though it claims it doesn't. It's simply too large to address the needs of all kids. Smaller areas with community schools would be best, as this structure would hopefully allow teachers to step back into a more autonomous role. Sadly, with the need to control every step, I don't see this happening.

Moving out of area is next on the list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now though... Well, now we don't have any alternatives except leaving the system. MCPS has one point of entry for the magnets and only that. "Advanced English" and "advanced world studies" seem to focus on making the students regurgitate one page essays in a precise format for structure, but not for grammar. My kid had "could of" and "ment" on the last paper and they weren't marked wrong. But points were taken off putting the explanatory quotes after the points they were supporting and not before.

I don't think those are errors of grammar; they are spelling errors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not the poster you're responding to, but I am another grammar supporter.

I agree that good writing goes far beyond grammar. However, I think that good grammar is a vital foundation that the other skills build on and allow a writer's talents to be displayed for best effect. Errors can distract from the message the author is trying to convey. In extreme cases, such errors can make it difficult to even understand the author's intent.

Here's an essay written by a college professor, Tina Blue, about the importance of grammar and the modern student's general lack of proficiency. (MCPS is not alone in it's neglect of grammar.)

http://irascibleprofessor.com/comments-06-30-04.htm

Here's a link that gives some background about Tina Blue.

http://grammartips.homestead.com/whoami.html

It seems to me to be mainly about the author's opinion that, based on her personal experience, schools were better in the 1950s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now though... Well, now we don't have any alternatives except leaving the system. MCPS has one point of entry for the magnets and only that. "Advanced English" and "advanced world studies" seem to focus on making the students regurgitate one page essays in a precise format for structure, but not for grammar. My kid had "could of" and "ment" on the last paper and they weren't marked wrong. But points were taken off putting the explanatory quotes after the points they were supporting and not before.

I don't think those are errors of grammar; they are spelling errors.

"Could of" instead of "could have" is a grammar error. I am sorry you are enough of a pedant to think that spelling errors are their own separate category. I'm sure that was very helpful at Vassar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then we'll keep our daughter in public school, but I'm doubtful he'll think it's fine. When I mentioned to him that MCPS doesn't include grammar in the curriculum, he was dumbstruck. He keeps thinking that maybe MCPS will change things in the next few years ... haha.

Given that your child hasn't even started school yet, you seem quite certain about what it's going to be like. Maybe consider keeping an open mind?

The kids are learning where to put periods and commas somehow. If it's not in the curriculum, how are they learning it?

learning where to put periods and commas is the bare minimum to ensure basic literacy. kids should be learning the full array of grammar rules.

Which grammar rules? I mean this sincerely. Which grammar rules do you think kids should learn, when should they learn them, and how should the teachers teach them?

NP, and I am also being sincere. I think kids should explicitly learn most, if not all, rules pertaining to their language. Parts of speech, types of verbs, subject-verb agreement, main and subordinate clauses, etc, etc. My child has always been an ES/P/A student with high MAP and PARCC scores but in 5th grade she still can't name all parts of speech and is having trouble with more complex punctuation. Yes, the school did tell them to put a period at the end of the sentence, but anything more complex than that?

They don't do that anymore and it shows in our kids' writing, or whatever passes for writing these days.

I'm the PP who was pushing grammar rules (and to whom the other PP's question was directed): thank you! It's astonishing to me how many people don't understand basic English grammar rules, including how to use a semi-colon, the difference between its and it's, how to use who and whom, etc. This isn't about sounded like a pretentious douche; it's about learning the rules of the primary language we all speak in this country. The first impression most people make in work and social settings is shaped significantly by how they speak and write. Our kids need to learn how to present themselves in their best light; learning to speak and write correctly is a huge part of that.

DD's English teacher does cover those things (7th grade MCPS). DD actually spent much of the weekend doing online quizzes that tested use of semicolons, its vs it's, affect vs effect, in to vs into, your vs you're, whose vs who's, etc. When I asked if it was assigned homework, she said it was stuff covered in class that she missed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then we'll keep our daughter in public school, but I'm doubtful he'll think it's fine. When I mentioned to him that MCPS doesn't include grammar in the curriculum, he was dumbstruck. He keeps thinking that maybe MCPS will change things in the next few years ... haha.

Given that your child hasn't even started school yet, you seem quite certain about what it's going to be like. Maybe consider keeping an open mind?

The kids are learning where to put periods and commas somehow. If it's not in the curriculum, how are they learning it?

learning where to put periods and commas is the bare minimum to ensure basic literacy. kids should be learning the full array of grammar rules.

MCPS is doing a great job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then we'll keep our daughter in public school, but I'm doubtful he'll think it's fine. When I mentioned to him that MCPS doesn't include grammar in the curriculum, he was dumbstruck. He keeps thinking that maybe MCPS will change things in the next few years ... haha.

Given that your child hasn't even started school yet, you seem quite certain about what it's going to be like. Maybe consider keeping an open mind?

The kids are learning where to put periods and commas somehow. If it's not in the curriculum, how are they learning it?

learning where to put periods and commas is the bare minimum to ensure basic literacy. kids should be learning the full array of grammar rules.

Which grammar rules? I mean this sincerely. Which grammar rules do you think kids should learn, when should they learn them, and how should the teachers teach them?

NP, and I am also being sincere. I think kids should explicitly learn most, if not all, rules pertaining to their language. Parts of speech, types of verbs, subject-verb agreement, main and subordinate clauses, etc, etc. My child has always been an ES/P/A student with high MAP and PARCC scores but in 5th grade she still can't name all parts of speech and is having trouble with more complex punctuation. Yes, the school did tell them to put a period at the end of the sentence, but anything more complex than that?

They don't do that anymore and it shows in our kids' writing, or whatever passes for writing these days.

I'm the PP who was pushing grammar rules (and to whom the other PP's question was directed): thank you! It's astonishing to me how many people don't understand basic English grammar rules, including how to use a semi-colon, the difference between its and it's, how to use who and whom, etc. This isn't about sounded like a pretentious douche; it's about learning the rules of the primary language we all speak in this country. The first impression most people make in work and social settings is shaped significantly by how they speak and write. Our kids need to learn how to present themselves in their best light; learning to speak and write correctly is a huge part of that.

DD's English teacher does cover those things (7th grade MCPS). DD actually spent much of the weekend doing online quizzes that tested use of semicolons, its vs it's, affect vs effect, in to vs into, your vs you're, whose vs who's, etc. When I asked if it was assigned homework, she said it was stuff covered in class that she missed.

Where are there online tests for this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then we'll keep our daughter in public school, but I'm doubtful he'll think it's fine. When I mentioned to him that MCPS doesn't include grammar in the curriculum, he was dumbstruck. He keeps thinking that maybe MCPS will change things in the next few years ... haha.

Given that your child hasn't even started school yet, you seem quite certain about what it's going to be like. Maybe consider keeping an open mind?

The kids are learning where to put periods and commas somehow. If it's not in the curriculum, how are they learning it?

learning where to put periods and commas is the bare minimum to ensure basic literacy. kids should be learning the full array of grammar rules.

Which grammar rules? I mean this sincerely. Which grammar rules do you think kids should learn, when should they learn them, and how should the teachers teach them?

NP, and I am also being sincere. I think kids should explicitly learn most, if not all, rules pertaining to their language. Parts of speech, types of verbs, subject-verb agreement, main and subordinate clauses, etc, etc. My child has always been an ES/P/A student with high MAP and PARCC scores but in 5th grade she still can't name all parts of speech and is having trouble with more complex punctuation. Yes, the school did tell them to put a period at the end of the sentence, but anything more complex than that?

They don't do that anymore and it shows in our kids' writing, or whatever passes for writing these days.

I'm the PP who was pushing grammar rules (and to whom the other PP's question was directed): thank you! It's astonishing to me how many people don't understand basic English grammar rules, including how to use a semi-colon, the difference between its and it's, how to use who and whom, etc. This isn't about sounded like a pretentious douche; it's about learning the rules of the primary language we all speak in this country. The first impression most people make in work and social settings is shaped significantly by how they speak and write. Our kids need to learn how to present themselves in their best light; learning to speak and write correctly is a huge part of that.

DD's English teacher does cover those things (7th grade MCPS). DD actually spent much of the weekend doing online quizzes that tested use of semicolons, its vs it's, affect vs effect, in to vs into, your vs you're, whose vs who's, etc. When I asked if it was assigned homework, she said it was stuff covered in class that she missed.

Where are there online tests for this?

I will ask DD. The teacher had the link in google classroom, but I don't recall the name of the site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Then we'll keep our daughter in public school, but I'm doubtful he'll think it's fine. When I mentioned to him that MCPS doesn't include grammar in the curriculum, he was dumbstruck. He keeps thinking that maybe MCPS will change things in the next few years ... haha.

Given that your child hasn't even started school yet, you seem quite certain about what it's going to be like. Maybe consider keeping an open mind?

The kids are learning where to put periods and commas somehow. If it's not in the curriculum, how are they learning it?

learning where to put periods and commas is the bare minimum to ensure basic literacy. kids should be learning the full array of grammar rules.

Which grammar rules? I mean this sincerely. Which grammar rules do you think kids should learn, when should they learn them, and how should the teachers teach them?

NP, and I am also being sincere. I think kids should explicitly learn most, if not all, rules pertaining to their language. Parts of speech, types of verbs, subject-verb agreement, main and subordinate clauses, etc, etc. My child has always been an ES/P/A student with high MAP and PARCC scores but in 5th grade she still can't name all parts of speech and is having trouble with more complex punctuation. Yes, the school did tell them to put a period at the end of the sentence, but anything more complex than that?

They don't do that anymore and it shows in our kids' writing, or whatever passes for writing these days.

I'm the PP who was pushing grammar rules (and to whom the other PP's question was directed): thank you! It's astonishing to me how many people don't understand basic English grammar rules, including how to use a semi-colon, the difference between its and it's, how to use who and whom, etc. This isn't about sounded like a pretentious douche; it's about learning the rules of the primary language we all speak in this country. The first impression most people make in work and social settings is shaped significantly by how they speak and write. Our kids need to learn how to present themselves in their best light; learning to speak and write correctly is a huge part of that.

DD's English teacher does cover those things (7th grade MCPS). DD actually spent much of the weekend doing online quizzes that tested use of semicolons, its vs it's, affect vs effect, in to vs into, your vs you're, whose vs who's, etc. When I asked if it was assigned homework, she said it was stuff covered in class that she missed.

Where are there online tests for this?

Here is the site. I am not sure if it is available to individual parents, or only teachers. https://www.noredink.com/about/product

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC was shocked when he started MS English class. The books assigned were the same books they read in 4th and 5th gtader. Only two book reports were assigned during the entire year. My impression for MS was MCPS has minimun expectation for its students.

Here are the books: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzpjEw_DrUViMzRiaVlZOG9mSXM/view

It seems quite appropriate to me for sixth grade.

We come from the CES program, and I have to tell you my kid read this book in 4th grade. So for those who came from the former HGC, I sure hope MCPS has something in place for these kids.

My 7th grader former HGC student did have to read a book in 6th grade that DC had already read in 4th, however, in some cases (most?) they have choices and have to pick a book based on their own lexile level. My DC is not a self starter, so DC needs to be "pushed" to read something more challenging, otherwise DC will pick the easiest way out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC was shocked when he started MS English class. The books assigned were the same books they read in 4th and 5th gtader. Only two book reports were assigned during the entire year. My impression for MS was MCPS has minimun expectation for its students.

Here are the books: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzpjEw_DrUViMzRiaVlZOG9mSXM/view

It seems quite appropriate to me for sixth grade.

We come from the CES program, and I have to tell you my kid read this book in 4th grade. So for those who came from the former HGC, I sure hope MCPS has something in place for these kids.

I didn't see any Shakespeare on this list. DD read two Shakespeare play sin 6th grade last year, a tragedy and a comedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all do know that in the rest of the world (outside the DC-area bubble) people bemoan the common core standards because they are too hard, right?

You all do know that in the rest of the country,people believed Trump’s lies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the teacher. My daughter has had the same English teacher for two years now (7-8), and she's wonderful. Her 6th grade teacher was also good.

But if kids enter MS with no knowledge of basic skills - grammar, punctuation, spelling, and organizational patterns, thesis/claim statements - there's nothing a MS teacher can do, as too much time was lost. I don't ever blame schools for this; I blame the system for not allowing teachers to use their professional judgment to determine what's best for individual kids.

With h all 8th grade English classes as "advanced," it becomes even more difficult to 1) identify and help struggling students and 2) keep the truly advanced students from becoming bored.

My daughter sees the difference from one year to the next, as her peer group has shrunk. However, as an English teacher, I can help her stay on a high-level honors track.

bottom line - The system has a "one size fits all" mentality even though it claims it doesn't. It's simply too large to address the needs of all kids. Smaller areas with community schools would be best, as this structure would hopefully allow teachers to step back into a more autonomous role. Sadly, with the need to control every step, I don't see this happening.

Moving out of area is next on the list.

Curious - which cluster are you in / where do you live? Where will you move?