
Isn't the point that if there are 12.7% legacy slots at Princeton, then the kids from top DC schools, who are legacy kids, are getting these slots? Which is why Sidwell asks where you went to school? |
The legacy kids face, say, a 1/3 or 1/4 chance of getting into Princeton (according to stats in the Price of Admission for another Ivy). Non-legacy kids face a 1/12 or whatever chance of getting in. (And don't forget that this 1/12 is an average of all kids, including the legacy kids, so non legacies' chances are worse than the average admissions rate figures you see cited.)
Not rocket science. And not a surprise that high schools that have lots of legacies send lots of kids to the Ivies. |
My personal take-away from all this is that certain kids (legacies, high-caliber athletes, kids from extremely wealthy families with a history of donations, etc) might get admitted to colleges despite weaknesses in other areas of their applications. The same balancing probably applies to every characteristic the admission committee considers -- for example, a kid with an amazing musical talent might get a slight pass on her verbal SAT weakness. We could debate forever with no conclusion (and really no solid evidence) about how much or how little each factor matters at each school and for each child. My final belief is that a smart and well-rounded kid will get into a good college. Much like the constant refrain around here about "fit" for elementary schools, there is a "fit" issue for colleges -- not every kid will thrive at Harvard, so who cares how much a certain school might improve his chances of admission to Harvard? |
Actually, the Price of Admission has tons of well-rounded, high-SAT, straight-A kids who were turned down by "good"colleges in favor of less qualified legacies. I get what you're trying to do, which is spread comfort around. But the point of the book was that there's actually a lot of unfairness in college admissions, and I don't want to paper that over.
The comment about Harvard not being a good "fit" for every kid is spot on. |
Two points: 1) We were really turned off that Sidwell asked where we (i.e., the parents) went to school (and I went to an Ivy). I could not think of any reason other than improving their students' college admissions odds. I was very favorably impressed by GDS, which did not ask for this information. 2) Most everyone on this board seems highly intelligent, and, I'll wager, quite successful in whatever field they've chosen. Yet many are upset that they are not legacies and that therefore their kids won't benefit from legacy status and possibly won't get into some highly competitive university. Where did most of you go to college, and would you be upset if your child chose to go there? |
I went to a 7 sisters for undergrad, and an Ivy for grad. The problem is that we haven't donated much to my Ivy or to DH's. So presumably were in the same boat as the non-Ivy families. |
Interesting piece from the Post's education writer, Jay Matthews, earlier this month: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/class-struggle/2009/09/in_demystifying_college_admiss.html
He writes: "Princeton researchers Thomas J. Espenshade and Chang Y. Chung calculated that the legacy factor is worth on average 160 extra points on the 1600-point SAT. I have noticed that the students admitted to Harvard from the selective private high school my daughter attended usually have a Harvard connection. I have been privy to the give and take over applicants to some colleges, and if a student is a legacy, it is mentioned and has great weight. (Although it will not guarantee the admission of a so-so student.) ... But there is absolutely no sign that the colleges who give preference to legacies, and consider it an important way to win alumni support, are going to stop doing that. " His daughter went to Sidwell, BTW. |
It definitely gives several examples. I'm sure there also are many examples of well-rounded, high-SAT, straight-A kids who are turned down in favor of "less qualified" athletes, or "less qualified" musicians, or "less qualified" class presidents, etc. There are plenty of non-legacy spots at these schools. Sure, the legacy students get some bump, but they clearly don't take all the slots, or even half of them. |
I don't think Sidwell is the only school that asks where applicants' parents went to school. Doesn't Maret as well? |
Most schools ask - at least the ones we applied to last year. GDS was the only one that didn't.
I think they do it for a number of reasons - establishing networking ties and also assisting students with college acceptances. It also gives the college counselors an idea of how to discuss college placements with the kids and their parents. In high school, I remember being asked where my parents went as well as my siblings. It gives them an idea of where to start in college placement. My prep school was very closely tied to both Yale and Smith and sent alot of kids to those schools. I'm sure this information was used in part to establish these ties. Much as Exeter is known as a feeder to Yale, Andover to Harvard and Deerfield to Dartmouth. |
Asking during the admissions process, and asking after the kid has been admitted and is now applying to college, would seem to serve two different purposes. The former helps the school with it's exmissions stars, the latter helps the school help the kid decide where to apply. |
Exactly. That's why we were SO impressed by GDS. That and the amazing kids we encountered at every turn. |
What I find interesting about this is, most of the kids from Sidwell who got into Harvard already had family connections there. Which underscores why the ask about parents' colleges during admissions. But it also gets back to the question, what does the school do for non-legacy kids ( in terms of admissions, I mean besides a great education). |
Ironically, just heard last night from parents with these school connections about a kid not too long ago who was at STA and got kicked out for dealing drugs. Father very famous and both STA and Harvard alum. Son then accepted at Sidwell where he graduates and it was well-known that he was not the smartest of the bunch. Gets into Harvard. SATs and everything else didn't matter. Then again, the Harvard education didn't really help as we were told. |
write good recommendations if a kid is a good student, leader [elected by peers], good character, has real commitments, valued member of student body, main contributor on team [football, basketball, baseball, lacrosse] ? there are a lot of kids at these schools vying for the same positions and then the same colleges. |