Does it seem like all anti-elite college folks never actually attended an elite?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Graduates of elite colleges DO make more money over time than their counterparts at less elite schools. By itself, this statistic would lead you to believe that it was the college that gave them the earnings boost. But if you control for the colleges students apply to and were accepted to, the differences in compensation disappear. For example, a student who attends Penn State, but who also had applied and been accepted to the more prestigious University of Pennsylvania earns as much over time, on average, as a student who attended U Penn.

Nobody that gets into Penn ends up at Penn State. These absurd hypotheticals you anti-elite folks try to pitch are absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing I notice more often is how many Ivy-obsessed people didn't go to an Ivy. Could also substitute Harvard for Ivy in that sentence. Probably more people think "my life would have been different if only...." than think "I am where/who I am because of my college."

Or maybe it just stands out more to me because I see elite obsession as more irrational than anti-elitism.

Marissa Mayer and Sheryl Sandberg were both hyper-aggressive 4.0 GPA involved-in-everything, president-of-every-club pushy high schools kids who ended up at Harvard and Stanford. Their obsession paid off, handsomely. And of course they can't claim it publicly, but both are elitist snobs who surrounded themselves with elite lettered colleagues.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I didn't go to an Ivy. I went to state school, and BU for law school. I'm a partner in a law firm. The partner in the office next to me went to Harvard and Duke. Yet we both wound up at the same place at the same age. Tell me again about how it matters?

You must have better critical reasoning skills to be a successful attorney. On the whole, alumni of elite schools have more prestigious and lucrative careers than alumni of less prestigious schools. There are exceptions to every general trend.

Well, yes. But that doesn't mean it's the school that did that.

The research is very clear that students who get into elite schools but don't attend do just as well as those who DO attend. Which, again, shows that it's not really the school, it's the students themselves.

+1

This.

Graduates of elite colleges DO make more money over time than their counterparts at less elite schools. By itself, this statistic would lead you to believe that it was the college that gave them the earnings boost. But if you control for the colleges students apply to and were accepted to, the differences in compensation disappear. For example, a student who attends Penn State, but who also had applied and been accepted to the more prestigious University of Pennsylvania earns as much over time, on average, as a student who attended U Penn.

You keep posting this, let's see a cite.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w17159
http://wws.princeton.edu/faculty-research/research/item/estimating-return-college-selectivity-over-career-using

"When we adjust for unobserved student ability by controlling for the average SAT score of the colleges that students applied to, our estimates of the return to college selectivity fall substantially and are generally indistinguishable from zero."

I thought this was common knowledge, but I guess not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Graduates of elite colleges DO make more money over time than their counterparts at less elite schools. By itself, this statistic would lead you to believe that it was the college that gave them the earnings boost. But if you control for the colleges students apply to and were accepted to, the differences in compensation disappear. For example, a student who attends Penn State, but who also had applied and been accepted to the more prestigious University of Pennsylvania earns as much over time, on average, as a student who attended U Penn.

Nobody that gets into Penn ends up at Penn State. These absurd hypotheticals you anti-elite folks try to pitch are absurd.

It's not PP's hypothetical. It is a real life scenario detailed in Stacy Dale and Alan B Krueger's (who, might I add, are both graduates of "elites") widely referenced study on the value of elite colleges. If you want to ignore the research, that's fine, but don't act like people are just making this up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Marc Koplik - fraud
Henderson and Koplik
Education - elite
Brown University and Yale Law School

told 60 minutes how to move money off shore to shelter from taxes

Aside from that one exception, 12 out of the 13 law firms, including 15 out of the 16 lawyers, not only heard Ralph Kayser out, they suggested ways that the suspicious funds could be moved into the U.S. without compromising the minister’s identity.

Attorney James Silkenat was selected by Global Witness because at the time, he was president of the American Bar Association. Yet he and his colleague, Hugh Finnegan, provided what former prosecutors told us was a roadmap of how to conceal the source of the funds using layers of anonymous, interconnected shell companies in multiple jurisdictions.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hidden-camera-investigation-money-laundering-60-minutes/

Yes, Dear, all the bad people in the world attended elite colleges. You win. Now please stop the ridiculous cut and paste.

when I hear Ivy League I think of sleazy lawyer. Since the 80's, it has become synonymous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Graduates of elite colleges DO make more money over time than their counterparts at less elite schools. By itself, this statistic would lead you to believe that it was the college that gave them the earnings boost. But if you control for the colleges students apply to and were accepted to, the differences in compensation disappear. For example, a student who attends Penn State, but who also had applied and been accepted to the more prestigious University of Pennsylvania earns as much over time, on average, as a student who attended U Penn.

Nobody that gets into Penn ends up at Penn State. These absurd hypotheticals you anti-elite folks try to pitch are absurd.

Not Penn State, but my sister got into U of Penn and ended up going to one of our state colleges because she wanted to be a nurse and my parents said no way they would pay for a Penn degree for a nursing career. She's done very well, ultimately got a masters in nursing and is now managing all training for the nursing staff for a large hospital while also teaching a nursing program. U of Penn would have given her a lot of debt but likely not impacted her career. Going to the affordable in-state college was a good choice.

I have an intern right now who turned down Yale to go to U. of Alabama for free. He's great and I'm sure will have a great career.

There are a lot of reasons people would choose a public university over an Ivy but for the most part it will come down to the cost.

[Anonymous]

Have a number of friends who do not think they had a good undergrad learning experience at Harvard. But it's difficult to say in hindsight whether or not it was the right choice. Most people leave college with friends for life and it's hard to look back and wish you'd done something different when you think about friends made... not even as "connections." Those in areas like finance are more dependent on their networks than those in arts and sciences.

[Anonymous]

Pp again. One post up reminds me of neighbor who got full ride to UPenn, didn't like the atmosphere when she visited and chose to pay for Penn State in state. She was in science.

[Anonymous]

I earned my bachelor's degree from Cornell and my master's from Harvard. I'm not anti-elite. I AM against:
-the pressure parents and teens put on themselves to get into these schools, as if they are the be-all end-all of career success and personal satisfaction.

-the notion that elite schools are the only place where one can surround him/herself with driven peers, or be taught by excellent professors.

-the idea that attending an elite school is somehow going to get you into the monied East Coast "elite." If you're not born into that world, four years at an Ivy League school isn't going to get you there.

-the notion that going six figures in debt for a name-brand undergraduate degree is EVER a good idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Graduates of elite colleges DO make more money over time than their counterparts at less elite schools. By itself, this statistic would lead you to believe that it was the college that gave them the earnings boost. But if you control for the colleges students apply to and were accepted to, the differences in compensation disappear. For example, a student who attends Penn State, but who also had applied and been accepted to the more prestigious University of Pennsylvania earns as much over time, on average, as a student who attended U Penn.

Nobody that gets into Penn ends up at Penn State. These absurd hypotheticals you anti-elite folks try to pitch are absurd.

Not Penn State, but my sister got into U of Penn and ended up going to one of our state colleges because she wanted to be a nurse and my parents said no way they would pay for a Penn degree for a nursing career. She's done very well, ultimately got a masters in nursing and is now managing all training for the nursing staff for a large hospital while also teaching a nursing program. U of Penn would have given her a lot of debt but likely not impacted her career. Going to the affordable in-state college was a good choice.

I have an intern right now who turned down Yale to go to U. of Alabama for free. He's great and I'm sure will have a great career.

There are a lot of reasons people would choose a public university over an Ivy but for the most part it will come down to the cost.

Too bad about your sister! University of Pennsylvania has the #1 nursing program in the country! I think it well could have impacted her career - you can't know one way or the other.

[Anonymous]

If my child got into an Ivy (except maybe Cornell), I would move heaven and earth to make sure she could attend. It is just the way it is. You can be 80 years old and people will still be impressed that you went to Harvard or Yale. Sorry - that is just the way it is. Plus the Ivy's are all so beautiful and well-endowed. All merit based financial aid - even for athletes. A class valedictorian we know couldn't afford to go to a state school but gt a free ride from Dartmouth due to the generous financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Graduates of elite colleges DO make more money over time than their counterparts at less elite schools. By itself, this statistic would lead you to believe that it was the college that gave them the earnings boost. But if you control for the colleges students apply to and were accepted to, the differences in compensation disappear. For example, a student who attends Penn State, but who also had applied and been accepted to the more prestigious University of Pennsylvania earns as much over time, on average, as a student who attended U Penn.

Nobody that gets into Penn ends up at Penn State. These absurd hypotheticals you anti-elite folks try to pitch are absurd.

Not Penn State, but my sister got into U of Penn and ended up going to one of our state colleges because she wanted to be a nurse and my parents said no way they would pay for a Penn degree for a nursing career. She's done very well, ultimately got a masters in nursing and is now managing all training for the nursing staff for a large hospital while also teaching a nursing program. U of Penn would have given her a lot of debt but likely not impacted her career. Going to the affordable in-state college was a good choice.

I have an intern right now who turned down Yale to go to U. of Alabama for free. He's great and I'm sure will have a great career.

There are a lot of reasons people would choose a public university over an Ivy but for the most part it will come down to the cost.

Too bad about your sister! University of Pennsylvania has the #1 nursing program in the country! I think it well could have impacted her career - you can't know one way or the other.

Hey - congrats - you were trying to sound like an asshole and you succeeded. Way to go schmuck...

[Anonymous]

What's wrong with Cornell? Cornell engineering is a lot better than nonexistent engineering at another Ivy, for example, if you want to be an engineer....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Graduates of elite colleges DO make more money over time than their counterparts at less elite schools. By itself, this statistic would lead you to believe that it was the college that gave them the earnings boost. But if you control for the colleges students apply to and were accepted to, the differences in compensation disappear. For example, a student who attends Penn State, but who also had applied and been accepted to the more prestigious University of Pennsylvania earns as much over time, on average, as a student who attended U Penn.

Nobody that gets into Penn ends up at Penn State. These absurd hypotheticals you anti-elite folks try to pitch are absurd.

Not Penn State, but my sister got into U of Penn and ended up going to one of our state colleges because she wanted to be a nurse and my parents said no way they would pay for a Penn degree for a nursing career. She's done very well, ultimately got a masters in nursing and is now managing all training for the nursing staff for a large hospital while also teaching a nursing program. U of Penn would have given her a lot of debt but likely not impacted her career. Going to the affordable in-state college was a good choice.

I have an intern right now who turned down Yale to go to U. of Alabama for free. He's great and I'm sure will have a great career.

There are a lot of reasons people would choose a public university over an Ivy but for the most part it will come down to the cost.

Too bad about your sister! University of Pennsylvania has the #1 nursing program in the country! I think it well could have impacted her career - you can't know one way or the other.

Hey - congrats - you were trying to sound like an asshole and you succeeded. Way to go schmuck...

LOL. My sister now hires and trains nurses. She should know if any ivy degree matters in her field. It doesn't if you want to work in patient care. Maybe if you want to move into policy and administration? But a state U program didn't hurt her ability to get into the masters' program she wanted to go to. She's gotten any job she's wanted. A floor nurse isn't going to be paid more because she went to Penn. That's now how it works. If we were low-income and it was free, then sure, she'd have gone there but no way is any marginal, possible benefit worth the debt that it would have required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Graduates of elite colleges DO make more money over time than their counterparts at less elite schools. By itself, this statistic would lead you to believe that it was the college that gave them the earnings boost. But if you control for the colleges students apply to and were accepted to, the differences in compensation disappear. For example, a student who attends Penn State, but who also had applied and been accepted to the more prestigious University of Pennsylvania earns as much over time, on average, as a student who attended U Penn.

Nobody that gets into Penn ends up at Penn State. These absurd hypotheticals you anti-elite folks try to pitch are absurd.

Not Penn State, but my sister got into U of Penn and ended up going to one of our state colleges because she wanted to be a nurse and my parents said no way they would pay for a Penn degree for a nursing career. She's done very well, ultimately got a masters in nursing and is now managing all training for the nursing staff for a large hospital while also teaching a nursing program. U of Penn would have given her a lot of debt but likely not impacted her career. Going to the affordable in-state college was a good choice.

I have an intern right now who turned down Yale to go to U. of Alabama for free. He's great and I'm sure will have a great career.

There are a lot of reasons people would choose a public university over an Ivy but for the most part it will come down to the cost.

Too bad about your sister! University of Pennsylvania has the #1 nursing program in the country! I think it well could have impacted her career - you can't know one way or the other.

Nurse here. Paying $300K for a nursing degree from Penn is an absolute colossal waste of money. The Penn nurse gets the e x a c t same job as the Penn State nurse.