America's Most Challenging High Schools

[Anonymous]

I almost posted this on the thread about hiring H1-Bs as teachers thread (http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/638317.page) but never got a chance to.

But it's kind of funny how some people complain about the education system and try to suggest things like importing teachers to try to improve it.

If anything that Washington Post article linked in that thread shows that the biggest factor in a student's success is what goes on at home.

On the other hand you have these posters talking about their children's happiness and how the driven students are also depressed. And knocking on the students who do those extracurricular activities at a young age. Just the other day someone mentioned how in some college com sci programs the students were programming long before they got into college.

Then there are some theories floating around on how a student's math track is determined in the third grade. I'm not a big fan of it but in MCPS's previous seven keys to college readiness (not sure if they're pushing for it), one of the factors is to be in 6th grade math by grade 5:
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2009/2009collegereadiness_03-19.pdf

So it really does start early and influenced on what goes on at home.

As previous poster mentioned, there is a big gap between those driven students with 10 APs and the lower performing students. And the kids that fall in between probably will do well too. But there's no reason to attack people who try to enrich their kids at an early age or the ones who don't want their kids to just focus on books.

[Anonymous]

Nobody is saying that parents are irrelevant. Or that all "driven" students are depressed. The questions for "driven" students are

1. who is driving them? themselves or their parents?
2. what is driving them? love of learning, desire for success, fear of failure?
3. what are they driving towards?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is saying that parents are irrelevant. Or that all "driven" students are depressed. The questions for "driven" students are

1. who is driving them? themselves or their parents?
2. what is driving them? love of learning, desire for success, fear of failure?
3. what are they driving towards?

Dumb questions but i'll bite.

1. my kids are driving themselves. i provide support/guidance when needed
2. all of the above
3. better future - having the option of what they WANT to do with their life, not what they HAVE to do

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is saying that parents are irrelevant. Or that all "driven" students are depressed. The questions for "driven" students are

1. who is driving them? themselves or their parents?
2. what is driving them? love of learning, desire for success, fear of failure?
3. what are they driving towards?

Dumb questions but i'll bite.

1. my kids are driving themselves. i provide support/guidance when needed
2. all of the above
3. better future - having the option of what they WANT to do with their life, not what they HAVE to do

Why do you think they're dumb questions? Do you think that all kids are like your kids? Or that it doesn't matter whether it's coming from the parents or the kids, or what the motivations or goals are?

[Anonymous]

NP. I don't think they are dumb questions at all. I was extremely driven growing up and especially in high school. The drive came from pressure from my parents and pressure to succeed for the sake of success. I ended up having a nervous breakdown in my first year at a prestigious college. My goal with my kids is to ensure that they have balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is saying that parents are irrelevant. Or that all "driven" students are depressed. The questions for "driven" students are

1. who is driving them? themselves or their parents?
2. what is driving them? love of learning, desire for success, fear of failure?
3. what are they driving towards?

Dumb questions but i'll bite.

1. my kids are driving themselves. i provide support/guidance when needed
2. all of the above
3. better future - having the option of what they WANT to do with their life, not what they HAVE to do

It's not a dumb question. Talk to the wealthy parents from Palo Alto and other wealthy school districts whose kids have committed suicide from too much pressure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is saying that parents are irrelevant. Or that all "driven" students are depressed. The questions for "driven" students are

1. who is driving them? themselves or their parents?
2. what is driving them? love of learning, desire for success, fear of failure?
3. what are they driving towards?

Dumb questions but i'll bite.

1. my kids are driving themselves. i provide support/guidance when needed
2. all of the above
3. better future - having the option of what they WANT to do with their life, not what they HAVE to do

Why do you think they're dumb questions? Do you think that all kids are like your kids? Or that it doesn't matter whether it's coming from the parents or the kids, or what the motivations or goals are?

Because I think you are trying to generalize entire group of high performing kids. Each child is different in terms of interest, goals, and abilities..etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is saying that parents are irrelevant. Or that all "driven" students are depressed. The questions for "driven" students are

1. who is driving them? themselves or their parents?
2. what is driving them? love of learning, desire for success, fear of failure?
3. what are they driving towards?

Dumb questions but i'll bite.

1. my kids are driving themselves. i provide support/guidance when needed
2. all of the above
3. better future - having the option of what they WANT to do with their life, not what they HAVE to do

Why do you think they're dumb questions? Do you think that all kids are like your kids? Or that it doesn't matter whether it's coming from the parents or the kids, or what the motivations or goals are?

Because I think you are trying to generalize entire group of high performing kids. Each child is different in terms of interest, goals, and abilities..etc.

I think these are incredibly important questions for all kids. I don't think there are any presumptions, but just information seeking.

Are some kids self-motivated? Sure. Are some kids motivated because they want to succeed and not disappoint their parents? Sure. Do parents always know this? I don't think do. Are some kids pushed by their parents? Sure. Are parents always right at guessing where this motivation comes from? No.

The question is if they are resilient enough to handle the pressure and failure. I don't think it always matters where the motivation is coming from. This DC bubble is a pressure cooker. Achievements and enrichments are fabulous. But so is learning to deal with disappointment and adversity, and there is not enough of that happening, imo, for these kids. Time would be well spent on those skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is saying that parents are irrelevant. Or that all "driven" students are depressed. The questions for "driven" students are

1. who is driving them? themselves or their parents?
2. what is driving them? love of learning, desire for success, fear of failure?
3. what are they driving towards?

Dumb questions but i'll bite.

1. my kids are driving themselves. i provide support/guidance when needed
2. all of the above
3. better future - having the option of what they WANT to do with their life, not what they HAVE to do

It's not a dumb question. Talk to the wealthy parents from Palo Alto and other wealthy school districts whose kids have committed suicide from too much pressure.

Pressure without support can break a kid. The high pressure and suicide comes from absentee parents, dysfunctional families where there may be wealth but the parents do not have time for their kids.

I think most of us are talking about parental support and balance for kids from a young age and also a long term strategy that requires the parents to sacrifice their leisure time to expose the children to various activities from the very beginning and then being committed to providing 100% support when the kid excels in something.

So, yes, what is happening at home will impact what the kids can achieve and the schools can only do so much.

The students who take 10-15 APs are doing it be self-studying at home. The parents are making sure that there is support for them at home. These are kids who are also excelling in EC activities. All this is happening because of some strategy and a 100% support at home.

If your kid cannot achieve this by just doing what the school expects them then I can understand why you are frustrated and lashing out to the other parents whose kids are super achievers. The schools are at best churning out above average kids. The home environment is allowing these students to reach for the stars. Yes, it is a lot of work but the parents are also shouldering the work and expense. They are curtailing their own leisure and social time too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Pressure without support can break a kid. The high pressure and suicide comes from absentee parents, dysfunctional families where there may be wealth but the parents do not have time for their kids.

I think most of us are talking about parental support and balance for kids from a young age and also a long term strategy that requires the parents to sacrifice their leisure time to expose the children to various activities from the very beginning and then being committed to providing 100% support when the kid excels in something.

So, yes, what is happening at home will impact what the kids can achieve and the schools can only do so much.

The students who take 10-15 APs are doing it be self-studying at home. The parents are making sure that there is support for them at home. These are kids who are also excelling in EC activities. All this is happening because of some strategy and a 100% support at home.

If your kid cannot achieve this by just doing what the school expects them then I can understand why you are frustrated and lashing out to the other parents whose kids are super achievers. The schools are at best churning out above average kids. The home environment is allowing these students to reach for the stars. Yes, it is a lot of work but the parents are also shouldering the work and expense. They are curtailing their own leisure and social time too.

PP, you seem to think of raising children as an input-output process, with the parent's investment as the input and the child's measured success (AP classes, college admissions, gold models) as the output. But children are people, not output.

If you want to interpret this comment as my jealousy of your high-achieving children and the home environment you've provided for them, then go right ahead, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is saying that parents are irrelevant. Or that all "driven" students are depressed. The questions for "driven" students are

1. who is driving them? themselves or their parents?
2. what is driving them? love of learning, desire for success, fear of failure?
3. what are they driving towards?

Dumb questions but i'll bite.

1. my kids are driving themselves. i provide support/guidance when needed
2. all of the above
3. better future - having the option of what they WANT to do with their life, not what they HAVE to do

It's not a dumb question. Talk to the wealthy parents from Palo Alto and other wealthy school districts whose kids have committed suicide from too much pressure.

Pressure without support can break a kid. The high pressure and suicide comes from absentee parents, dysfunctional families where there may be wealth but the parents do not have time for their kids.

I think most of us are talking about parental support and balance for kids from a young age and also a long term strategy that requires the parents to sacrifice their leisure time to expose the children to various activities from the very beginning and then being committed to providing 100% support when the kid excels in something.

So, yes, what is happening at home will impact what the kids can achieve and the schools can only do so much.

The students who take 10-15 APs are doing it be self-studying at home. The parents are making sure that there is support for them at home. These are kids who are also excelling in EC activities. All this is happening because of some strategy and a 100% support at home.

If your kid cannot achieve this by just doing what the school expects them then I can understand why you are frustrated and lashing out to the other parents whose kids are super achievers. The schools are at best churning out above average kids. The home environment is allowing these students to reach for the stars. Yes, it is a lot of work but the parents are also shouldering the work and expense. They are curtailing their own leisure and social time too.

Bolded is wrong. Some of the parents of the kids who committed suicide due to pressure were very present, at *every* tournament, competition, etc... and overly involved in their kids' achievements and activities. The pressure comes from the fact that the parents are so invested in their achievements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is saying that parents are irrelevant. Or that all "driven" students are depressed. The questions for "driven" students are

1. who is driving them? themselves or their parents?
2. what is driving them? love of learning, desire for success, fear of failure?
3. what are they driving towards?

Dumb questions but i'll bite.

1. my kids are driving themselves. i provide support/guidance when needed
2. all of the above
3. better future - having the option of what they WANT to do with their life, not what they HAVE to do

It's not a dumb question. Talk to the wealthy parents from Palo Alto and other wealthy school districts whose kids have committed suicide from too much pressure.

Pressure without support can break a kid. The high pressure and suicide comes from absentee parents, dysfunctional families where there may be wealth but the parents do not have time for their kids.

I think most of us are talking about parental support and balance for kids from a young age and also a long term strategy that requires the parents to sacrifice their leisure time to expose the children to various activities from the very beginning and then being committed to providing 100% support when the kid excels in something.

So, yes, what is happening at home will impact what the kids can achieve and the schools can only do so much.

The students who take 10-15 APs are doing it be self-studying at home. The parents are making sure that there is support for them at home. These are kids who are also excelling in EC activities. All this is happening because of some strategy and a 100% support at home.

If your kid cannot achieve this by just doing what the school expects them then I can understand why you are frustrated and lashing out to the other parents whose kids are super achievers. The schools are at best churning out above average kids. The home environment is allowing these students to reach for the stars. Yes, it is a lot of work but the parents are also shouldering the work and expense. They are curtailing their own leisure and social time too.

Bolded is wrong. Some of the parents of the kids who committed suicide due to pressure were very present, at *every* tournament, competition, etc... and overly involved in their kids' achievements and activities. The pressure comes from the fact that the parents are so invested in their achievements.

And that is the dysfunction that I also wrote about. In the past few years I have heard a lot about suicides in Whitman, Churchill and Wootton. I don't recall hearing about suicides in Poolsville magnet, Blair Magnet or RMIB magnet. Do we have any stats about suicide in the magnet population?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is saying that parents are irrelevant. Or that all "driven" students are depressed. The questions for "driven" students are

1. who is driving them? themselves or their parents?
2. what is driving them? love of learning, desire for success, fear of failure?
3. what are they driving towards?

Dumb questions but i'll bite.

1. my kids are driving themselves. i provide support/guidance when needed
2. all of the above
3. better future - having the option of what they WANT to do with their life, not what they HAVE to do

It's not a dumb question. Talk to the wealthy parents from Palo Alto and other wealthy school districts whose kids have committed suicide from too much pressure.

Pressure without support can break a kid. The high pressure and suicide comes from absentee parents, dysfunctional families where there may be wealth but the parents do not have time for their kids.

I think most of us are talking about parental support and balance for kids from a young age and also a long term strategy that requires the parents to sacrifice their leisure time to expose the children to various activities from the very beginning and then being committed to providing 100% support when the kid excels in something.

So, yes, what is happening at home will impact what the kids can achieve and the schools can only do so much.

The students who take 10-15 APs are doing it be self-studying at home. The parents are making sure that there is support for them at home. These are kids who are also excelling in EC activities. All this is happening because of some strategy and a 100% support at home.

If your kid cannot achieve this by just doing what the school expects them then I can understand why you are frustrated and lashing out to the other parents whose kids are super achievers. The schools are at best churning out above average kids. The home environment is allowing these students to reach for the stars. Yes, it is a lot of work but the parents are also shouldering the work and expense. They are curtailing their own leisure and social time too.

Bolded is wrong. Some of the parents of the kids who committed suicide due to pressure were very present, at *every* tournament, competition, etc... and overly involved in their kids' achievements and activities. The pressure comes from the fact that the parents are so invested in their achievements.

And that is the dysfunction that I also wrote about. In the past few years I have heard a lot about suicides in Whitman, Churchill and Wootton. I don't recall hearing about suicides in Poolsville magnet, Blair Magnet or RMIB magnet. Do we have any stats about suicide in the magnet population?

Total of 12 years (8 at RMIB and 4 at PHS) of HS magnet experience for my 3 kids, there was none.

[Anonymous]

When they say most challenging does it mean the hardest to succeed because it seems that many are high esol/farms and mediocre to low sol and sats

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Once again Blair sucks

Notice that Blair has a lowly rating even though the rating methodology includes the performance of the magnet kids ... and CAP. Imagine where Blair would rank without the highly tutored magnet kids.

We could always argue that this rating system is meaningless. The reality is that MCPS and the school tout these ratings when it makes them look good. If you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

Blair is on a downward spiral.