New Great Schools Ratings Released for FCPS/APS High Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adding the limited English number to the F/R Lunch number provides the following (by the sum of those two numbers - highest to lowest). It might provide a better picture of the burden some schools have relative to others. For example, Stuart has an ESL number of 32.29 percent and a F/R lunch number of 64.47 percent, for a total of 96.76. At the opposite end of the spectrum, Jefferson has an ESL number of 0 percent and a F/R lunch number of 2.11 percent, for a total of 2.11. The numbers come from the FCPS website. The Great School rating is in parentheses:

Stuart - 96.76 (3)
Falls Church - 82.34 (4)
Annandale - 81.28 (4)
Lee - 81.16 (3)
Mt. Vernon - 73.27 (2)
Herndon - 61.29 (4)
West Potomac - 58.46 (4)
Edison - 52.59 (5)
South Lakes - 40.33 (6)
Hayfield - 38.15 (5)
Westfield - 36.71 (6)
Fairfax - 36.18 (6)
Centreville - 35.57 (6)
Marshall - 26.36 (9)
Chantilly - 23.85 (8)
South County - 21.93 (6)
Lake Braddock - 21.83 (8)
Oakton - 18.79 (8)
Madison - 17.01 (8)
Woodson - 16.33 (8)
McLean - 15.25 (9)
West Springfield - 13.89 (9)
Robinson - 13.23 (8)
Langley - 3.48 (9)
Thomas Jefferson - 2.11 (10)


Some schools appear to have fallen outside expectations: Mt. Vernon, Hayfield, and South County should probably do a bit better; Marshall does a bit better than one would expect (and maybe Annandale and Falls Church as well).

Things of note: 8 schools have broken away from the rest with high ESL numbers and F/R lunch numbers (>50 combined, starting at Edison and running up through Stuart). FCPS has a serious problem in this regard because education focused families with money moving to the area will see these numbers and run to the other schools, making the problem worse for the low rated schools.

Some schools (Marshall, Lake Braddock ) benefit from inbound transfers of education focused students. Others, like Mt. Vernon, Falls Church, and Lee suffer the opposite problem - they lose education focused students via transfer.

You don't get accurate data by adding ESOL and FARMS numbers. That will overstate the numbers. There is significant overlap between ESOL and FARMS, so you're double counting. 64 percent at Stuart is still extremely high and a burden.

I was just about to write that. That's counting the same students twice.

Stated differently, it's just a number, not a percentage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adding the limited English number to the F/R Lunch number provides the following (by the sum of those two numbers - highest to lowest). It might provide a better picture of the burden some schools have relative to others. For example, Stuart has an ESL number of 32.29 percent and a F/R lunch number of 64.47 percent, for a total of 96.76. At the opposite end of the spectrum, Jefferson has an ESL number of 0 percent and a F/R lunch number of 2.11 percent, for a total of 2.11. The numbers come from the FCPS website. The Great School rating is in parentheses:

Stuart - 96.76 (3)
Falls Church - 82.34 (4)
Annandale - 81.28 (4)
Lee - 81.16 (3)
Mt. Vernon - 73.27 (2)
Herndon - 61.29 (4)
West Potomac - 58.46 (4)
Edison - 52.59 (5)
South Lakes - 40.33 (6)
Hayfield - 38.15 (5)
Westfield - 36.71 (6)
Fairfax - 36.18 (6)
Centreville - 35.57 (6)
Marshall - 26.36 (9)
Chantilly - 23.85 (8)
South County - 21.93 (6)
Lake Braddock - 21.83 (8)
Oakton - 18.79 (8)
Madison - 17.01 (8)
Woodson - 16.33 (8)
McLean - 15.25 (9)
West Springfield - 13.89 (9)
Robinson - 13.23 (8)
Langley - 3.48 (9)
Thomas Jefferson - 2.11 (10)


Some schools appear to have fallen outside expectations: Mt. Vernon, Hayfield, and South County should probably do a bit better; Marshall does a bit better than one would expect (and maybe Annandale and Falls Church as well).

Things of note: 8 schools have broken away from the rest with high ESL numbers and F/R lunch numbers (>50 combined, starting at Edison and running up through Stuart). FCPS has a serious problem in this regard because education focused families with money moving to the area will see these numbers and run to the other schools, making the problem worse for the low rated schools.

Some schools (Marshall, Lake Braddock ) benefit from inbound transfers of education focused students. Others, like Mt. Vernon, Falls Church, and Lee suffer the opposite problem - they lose education focused students via transfer.

You don't get accurate data by adding ESOL and FARMS numbers. That will overstate the numbers. There is significant overlap between ESOL and FARMS, so you're double counting. 64 percent at Stuart is still extremely high and a burden.

I was just about to write that. That's counting the same students twice.

Stated differently, it's just a number, not a percentage.

I am the poster of those numbers. Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't trying to say that was a total percentage (you obviously can't add them up like that). But adding them up, a fairly rudimentary method, does give a 'score' of sorts to the schools for their overall burden. For the most part the ESL and the F/R lunch numbers correlate pretty strongly. There is no doubt that Stuart has it harder because it has many poor students who also don't speak English as their first language. Or Herndon and Edison - almost the same F/R lunch rate, but Herndon's ESL is almost 7 percent higher than Edison's. Edison scores higher on Great Schools by 1 point. Same with West Springfield and Madison (though the difference in ESL number is not quite as big). All the schools with GS ratings of 4 or lower have ESL numbers higher than 15%. Just wanted to point out that F/R lunch numbers are not the only factor.

[Anonymous]

So to summarize:

Performing above expectations
Marshall (by a lot)
Falls Church
Annandale
Stuart

Performing roughly as expected
TJ
Langley
West Springfield
McLean
Woodson
Madison
Oakton
Robinson
Lake Braddock
Chantilly
Centreville
South Lakes
Fairfax
Westfield
Hayfield
Edison
West Potomac
Herndon

Performing below expectations
South County (by quite a bit)
Mt. Vernon
Lee

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So to summarize:

Performing above expectations
Marshall (by a lot)
Falls Church
Annandale
Stuart

Performing roughly as expected
TJ
Langley
West Springfield
McLean
Woodson
Madison
Oakton
Robinson
Lake Braddock
Chantilly
Centreville
South Lakes
Fairfax
Westfield
Hayfield
Edison
West Potomac
Herndon

Performing below expectations
South County (by quite a bit)
Mt. Vernon
Lee

I would only say that Marshall is truly performing above and South County below (and maybe Mt. Vernon). The rest are probably still performing about where you would expect (Falls Church, Annandale, Stuart, and Lee) - one point variation on the scale could involve lots of factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So to summarize:

Performing above expectations
Marshall (by a lot)
Falls Church
Annandale
Stuart

Performing roughly as expected
TJ
Langley
West Springfield
McLean
Woodson
Madison
Oakton
Robinson
Lake Braddock
Chantilly
Centreville
South Lakes
Fairfax
Westfield
Hayfield
Edison
West Potomac
Herndon

Performing below expectations
South County (by quite a bit)
Mt. Vernon
Lee

I would only say that Marshall is truly performing above and South County below (and maybe Mt. Vernon). The rest are probably still performing about where you would expect (Falls Church, Annandale, Stuart, and Lee) - one point variation on the scale could involve lots of factors.

I'd probably be inclined to give Lee the benefit of a doubt. Annandale and Falls Church (with 52 and 53% FARMS rates respectively) performed as well as Herndon with only a 36% FARMS rate. That's strikes me as fairly impressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Adding the limited English number to the F/R Lunch number provides the following (by the sum of those two numbers - highest to lowest). It might provide a better picture of the burden some schools have relative to others. For example, Stuart has an ESL number of 32.29 percent and a F/R lunch number of 64.47 percent, for a total of 96.76. At the opposite end of the spectrum, Jefferson has an ESL number of 0 percent and a F/R lunch number of 2.11 percent, for a total of 2.11. The numbers come from the FCPS website. The Great School rating is in parentheses:

Stuart - 96.76 (3)
Falls Church - 82.34 (4)
Annandale - 81.28 (4)
Lee - 81.16 (3)
Mt. Vernon - 73.27 (2)
Herndon - 61.29 (4)
West Potomac - 58.46 (4)
Edison - 52.59 (5)
South Lakes - 40.33 (6)
Hayfield - 38.15 (5)
Westfield - 36.71 (6)
Fairfax - 36.18 (6)
Centreville - 35.57 (6)
Marshall - 26.36 (9)
Chantilly - 23.85 (8)
South County - 21.93 (6)
Lake Braddock - 21.83 (8)
Oakton - 18.79 (8)
Madison - 17.01 (8)
Woodson - 16.33 (8)
McLean - 15.25 (9)
West Springfield - 13.89 (9)
Robinson - 13.23 (8)
Langley - 3.48 (9)
Thomas Jefferson - 2.11 (10)


Some schools appear to have fallen outside expectations: Mt. Vernon, Hayfield, and South County should probably do a bit better; Marshall does a bit better than one would expect (and maybe Annandale and Falls Church as well).

Things of note: 8 schools have broken away from the rest with high ESL numbers and F/R lunch numbers (>50 combined, starting at Edison and running up through Stuart). FCPS has a serious problem in this regard because education focused families with money moving to the area will see these numbers and run to the other schools, making the problem worse for the low rated schools.

Some schools (Marshall, Lake Braddock ) benefit from inbound transfers of education focused students. Others, like Mt. Vernon, Falls Church, and Lee suffer the opposite problem - they lose education focused students via transfer.

You don't get accurate data by adding ESOL and FARMS numbers. That will overstate the numbers. There is significant overlap between ESOL and FARMS, so you're double counting. 64 percent at Stuart is still extremely high and a burden.

I was just about to write that. That's counting the same students twice.

Stated differently, it's just a number, not a percentage.

I am the poster of those numbers. Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't trying to say that was a total percentage (you obviously can't add them up like that). But adding them up, a fairly rudimentary method, does give a 'score' of sorts to the schools for their overall burden. For the most part the ESL and the F/R lunch numbers correlate pretty strongly. There is no doubt that Stuart has it harder because it has many poor students who also don't speak English as their first language. Or Herndon and Edison - almost the same F/R lunch rate, but Herndon's ESL is almost 7 percent higher than Edison's. Edison scores higher on Great Schools by 1 point. Same with West Springfield and Madison (though the difference in ESL number is not quite as big). All the schools with GS ratings of 4 or lower have ESL numbers higher than 15%. Just wanted to point out that F/R lunch numbers are not the only factor.

As you note, the GS ratings don't track exactly to your 'overall burden' number. One explanation is that this is due to differences in school choices/performance. The other is that there is a hidden variable. The latter is my guess. It is probably AA population. Hayfield, for example, is slightly more AA than the county as a whole. It does slightly worse than your index would suggest it would. I think that's not a coincidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your neighbors are smart you will have a high gs rating. We lived in a 7 zone and many of the neighbors cleaned houses, mowed lawns and were blue collar. Now in my gs 9 neighborhood it's all white collars. Always ackward trying to drum up small talk with the guy who worked on your house.

I have no trouble talking to my handyman, plumber/hvac guy or my mechanic even though I have an adv. degree. I guess I just like normal people who know lots of useful stuff.

Seriously. PP's comment says more about their lack of social skills than their former neighbors. We live in a 9/10 boundary, and our neighbors are still diverse in every manner, including profession. (And our school also sucks unless you're AAP-bound. They do not know how to help the kids that are struggling at all, and I'm not sure they care.)

[Anonymous]

I wonder why Marshall is doing so much better than better than expected? Any theories?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why Marshall is doing so much better than better than expected? Any theories?

Draws IB kids from four surrounding AP schools and has an administration very focused on SOLs and ratings. The first thing you see when you enter the school are charts tracking SOL scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why Marshall is doing so much better than better than expected? Any theories?

I know IB is hated on this board, but IB. Marshall and SLHS are the two schools where IB has worked at pulling "desireable" kids in. Marshall has the strongest IB IB program in the county, and pull in affluent kids from highly educated families that believe in the IB diploma. Ditto South Lakes. Robinson is the other IB program that works, but based on it's location the IB transfers don't seem to change the SES of the school. SLHS and Marshall IB are pulling in high SES kids to lower SES schools. And managing to hang onto the high SES kids that are zoned there, rather than having them transfer out for AP. Very different dynamic than how IB played out in the eastern county school, where they put a lot of programs in low SES schools without enough high SES kids.

[Anonymous]

Great schools also does a seperate GS ranking solely for the low income population.
Marshall is scoring a 5 out of 10 where must of these schools ( and I mean all of them) are scoring 2/3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great schools also does a seperate GS ranking solely for the low income population.
Marshall is scoring a 5 out of 10 where must of these schools ( and I mean all of them) are scoring 2/3.

I think this is a legacy of Marshall once being a much smaller school with a larger FARMS/ESOL enrollment than nearby schools. They focused on all the kids when wealthier schools like Madison were more likely to let their lower-income kids sink or swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why Marshall is doing so much better than better than expected? Any theories?

I know IB is hated on this board, but IB. Marshall and SLHS are the two schools where IB has worked at pulling "desireable" kids in. Marshall has the strongest IB IB program in the county, and pull in affluent kids from highly educated families that believe in the IB diploma. Ditto South Lakes. Robinson is the other IB program that works, but based on it's location the IB transfers don't seem to change the SES of the school. SLHS and Marshall IB are pulling in high SES kids to lower SES schools. And managing to hang onto the high SES kids that are zoned there, rather than having them transfer out for AP. Very different dynamic than how IB played out in the eastern county school, where they put a lot of programs in low SES schools without enough high SES kids.

I wish they would keep those three IB schools and one more and do away with the rest.

[Anonymous]

And what's up with South County doing so poorly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why Marshall is doing so much better than better than expected? Any theories?

I know IB is hated on this board, but IB. Marshall and SLHS are the two schools where IB has worked at pulling "desireable" kids in. Marshall has the strongest IB IB program in the county, and pull in affluent kids from highly educated families that believe in the IB diploma. Ditto South Lakes. Robinson is the other IB program that works, but based on it's location the IB transfers don't seem to change the SES of the school. SLHS and Marshall IB are pulling in high SES kids to lower SES schools. And managing to hang onto the high SES kids that are zoned there, rather than having them transfer out for AP. Very different dynamic than how IB played out in the eastern county school, where they put a lot of programs in low SES schools without enough high SES kids.

I wish they would keep those three IB schools and one more and do away with the rest.

It allows people to transfer out, so that will be hard.