Gifted and talented test prep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My nieces and nephews have always been in magnet schools and Ivy league colleges. They always prepped. They are now in highly successful careers and really enjoying the fruits of their labor because in real life they do not have to have genius brains. They just need to work hard and get ahead.

Are most successful people in the world, the people in position of power also the smartest people with innate abilities? No. So, don't worry if someone tells you that your kids do not have innate abilities if they have to prep. If they can prep and get ahead at least they have worked hard and studied hard to reach where they need to reach.

Some kids have innate abilities, some were breastfed and have superior brains, some had SAHMs parenting them and some were not allowed to CIO. There are so many advantages that a child can have, how can we say that one advantage helped more than another?

Some kids have innate abilities, some kids work really hard, some kids have parents who can afford to buy them inside information...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My nieces and nephews have always been in magnet schools and Ivy league colleges. They always prepped. They are now in highly successful careers and really enjoying the fruits of their labor because in real life they do not have to have genius brains. They just need to work hard and get ahead.

Are most successful people in the world, the people in position of power also the smartest people with innate abilities? No. So, don't worry if someone tells you that your kids do not have innate abilities if they have to prep. If they can prep and get ahead at least they have worked hard and studied hard to reach where they need to reach.

Some kids have innate abilities, some were breastfed and have superior brains, some had SAHMs parenting them and some were not allowed to CIO. There are so many advantages that a child can have, how can we say that one advantage helped more than another?

Some kids have innate abilities, some kids work really hard, some kids have parents who can afford to buy them inside information...

I guess they love their kids more...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

This. If MoCo did a better job meeting the needs of above average students, this wouldn't even be an issue. But MCPS does not and has this crazy system so parents do what they need to do.

I also agree with the PP. Innate ability will only get you so far in life. In sports, at work. Anywhere. Better off learning that you need to prepare for things. I'll take an average IQ hard-worker over a lazy genius any day on my team at work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

This. If MoCo did a better job meeting the needs of above average students, this wouldn't even be an issue. But MCPS does not and has this crazy system so parents do what they need to do.

I also agree with the PP. Innate ability will only get you so far in life. In sports, at work. Anywhere. Better off learning that you need to prepare for things. I'll take an average IQ hard-worker over a lazy genius any day on my team at work.

I'd take the genius in my field given the two choices, but I'd definitely take a smart-but-not-genius hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

This. If MoCo did a better job meeting the needs of above average students, this wouldn't even be an issue. But MCPS does not and has this crazy system so parents do what they need to do.

I also agree with the PP. Innate ability will only get you so far in life. In sports, at work. Anywhere. Better off learning that you need to prepare for things. I'll take an average IQ hard-worker over a lazy genius any day on my team at work.

I'd take the genius in my field given the two choices, but I'd definitely take a smart-but-not-genius hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

However, in most cases this is rarely an either or proposition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

This. If MoCo did a better job meeting the needs of above average students, this wouldn't even be an issue. But MCPS does not and has this crazy system so parents do what they need to do.

I also agree with the PP. Innate ability will only get you so far in life. In sports, at work. Anywhere. Better off learning that you need to prepare for things. I'll take an average IQ hard-worker over a lazy genius any day on my team at work.

I'd take the genius in my field given the two choices, but I'd definitely take a smart-but-not-genius hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

depends on nature of work. for routine/normal day to day work, yes, I agree. for the work that requires innovation, i'd take the lazy genius.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

This. If MoCo did a better job meeting the needs of above average students, this wouldn't even be an issue. But MCPS does not and has this crazy system so parents do what they need to do.

I also agree with the PP. Innate ability will only get you so far in life. In sports, at work. Anywhere. Better off learning that you need to prepare for things. I'll take an average IQ hard-worker over a lazy genius any day on my team at work.

I'd take the genius in my field given the two choices, but I'd definitely take a smart-but-not-genius hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

depends on nature of work. for routine/normal day to day work, yes, I agree. for the work that requires innovation, i'd take the lazy genius.

Very little work out there requires true innovation and genius; for the small amount that does I would agree. IMO it's more about innovative thinking, and that's something that some people are simply born with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

This. If MoCo did a better job meeting the needs of above average students, this wouldn't even be an issue. But MCPS does not and has this crazy system so parents do what they need to do.

I also agree with the PP. Innate ability will only get you so far in life. In sports, at work. Anywhere. Better off learning that you need to prepare for things. I'll take an average IQ hard-worker over a lazy genius any day on my team at work.

I'd take the genius in my field given the two choices, but I'd definitely take a smart-but-not-genius hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

depends on nature of work. for routine/normal day to day work, yes, I agree. for the work that requires innovation, i'd take the lazy genius.

Really? Like what? I can't think of any business where I'd want the lazy genius!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

This. If MoCo did a better job meeting the needs of above average students, this wouldn't even be an issue. But MCPS does not and has this crazy system so parents do what they need to do.

I also agree with the PP. Innate ability will only get you so far in life. In sports, at work. Anywhere. Better off learning that you need to prepare for things. I'll take an average IQ hard-worker over a lazy genius any day on my team at work.

I'd take the genius in my field given the two choices, but I'd definitely take a smart-but-not-genius hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

depends on nature of work. for routine/normal day to day work, yes, I agree. for the work that requires innovation, i'd take the lazy genius.

Really? Like what? I can't think of any business where I'd want the lazy genius!

Lazy genius here. Regardless of sector, if you're looking for any kind of innovation or disruption, you're better off with me. You'll have a superior concept, flaws and risks will have been anticipated and addressed, leaving you with a significant competitive advantage.

That said, you're certainly better off hiring a hard-worker to bring said innovation to fruition and to maintain it going forward. The idea and launch are the interesting parts and the balance mere tedium. After 2 years at the outside, I'm worthless and it's off the to next project.

We're complementary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^For what it's worth, if parents want to spend the money and time on test prep classes, that's fine with me. I think it's wasted money and mis-spent time, but it's not my money or time, and people get to make their own choices.

The only thing I would find problematic is if the test prep organizations get test-takers to tell them what was on the test, and then basically sell that information to the next year's group of test preppers. That would be cheating -- not because of the studying, but because people who paid for test prep classes would have inside information that other people would not have.

The test prep centers are making a whole lot of money by teaching from COGAT, PSAT and SAT workbooks. They have NO CLUE of what the real MCPS tests are like. My own child has prepped with one of the test centers for two tests and each time he came out saying that the real test did not in any shape or form resemble what was taught at prep centers.

For what it is worth, the students who get into the programs usually would have gotten into the programs without prep too. There are many who go to the prep classes and do not get into the programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^For what it's worth, if parents want to spend the money and time on test prep classes, that's fine with me. I think it's wasted money and mis-spent time, but it's not my money or time, and people get to make their own choices.

The only thing I would find problematic is if the test prep organizations get test-takers to tell them what was on the test, and then basically sell that information to the next year's group of test preppers. That would be cheating -- not because of the studying, but because people who paid for test prep classes would have inside information that other people would not have.

The test prep centers are making a whole lot of money by teaching from COGAT, PSAT and SAT workbooks. They have NO CLUE of what the real MCPS tests are like. My own child has prepped with one of the test centers for two tests and each time he came out saying that the real test did not in any shape or form resemble what was taught at prep centers.

For what it is worth, the students who get into the programs usually would have gotten into the programs without prep too. There are many who go to the prep classes and do not get into the programs.

Sorry, PP, but I find this hard to believe. In no shape or form? Care to share what tests you're talking about??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

This. If MoCo did a better job meeting the needs of above average students, this wouldn't even be an issue. But MCPS does not and has this crazy system so parents do what they need to do.

I also agree with the PP. Innate ability will only get you so far in life. In sports, at work. Anywhere. Better off learning that you need to prepare for things. I'll take an average IQ hard-worker over a lazy genius any day on my team at work.

I'd take the genius in my field given the two choices, but I'd definitely take a smart-but-not-genius hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

depends on nature of work. for routine/normal day to day work, yes, I agree. for the work that requires innovation, i'd take the lazy genius.

Really? Like what? I can't think of any business where I'd want the lazy genius!

Lazy genius here. Regardless of sector, if you're looking for any kind of innovation or disruption, you're better off with me. You'll have a superior concept, flaws and risks will have been anticipated and addressed, leaving you with a significant competitive advantage.

That said, you're certainly better off hiring a hard-worker to bring said innovation to fruition and to maintain it going forward. The idea and launch are the interesting parts and the balance mere tedium. After 2 years at the outside, I'm worthless and it's off the to next project.

We're complementary.

Most of the geniuses I met are intrinsically curious. They cannot stop thinking. What exactly do you mean by lazy genius?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

This. If MoCo did a better job meeting the needs of above average students, this wouldn't even be an issue. But MCPS does not and has this crazy system so parents do what they need to do.

I also agree with the PP. Innate ability will only get you so far in life. In sports, at work. Anywhere. Better off learning that you need to prepare for things. I'll take an average IQ hard-worker over a lazy genius any day on my team at work.

I'd take the genius in my field given the two choices, but I'd definitely take a smart-but-not-genius hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

depends on nature of work. for routine/normal day to day work, yes, I agree. for the work that requires innovation, i'd take the lazy genius.

Really? Like what? I can't think of any business where I'd want the lazy genius!

Lazy genius here. Regardless of sector, if you're looking for any kind of innovation or disruption, you're better off with me. You'll have a superior concept, flaws and risks will have been anticipated and addressed, leaving you with a significant competitive advantage.

That said, you're certainly better off hiring a hard-worker to bring said innovation to fruition and to maintain it going forward. The idea and launch are the interesting parts and the balance mere tedium. After 2 years at the outside, I'm worthless and it's off the to next project.

We're complementary.

Valid points. But I'm wondering how 'lazy' you actually are. Maybe not exactly as 'lazy' as I was thinking!

When I say 'lazy' genius, I'm more thinking of the kids who show immense potential in school, score super well on tests, but don't have the discipline and will power to pay attention in school and end up not doing well. I was in our GT program growing up and saw this happen with several kids. Smart kids with potential, but not enough motivation. They get labeled 'smart' and assume that means things should come easy. Then they don't know how to move forward when there is a challenge.

I'm more saying that I'd take the hard-working smart kid in this case. Who knows the value of preparation and hard work.

If you are in business, then I'm going to guess you're not as lazy as you think!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

This. If MoCo did a better job meeting the needs of above average students, this wouldn't even be an issue. But MCPS does not and has this crazy system so parents do what they need to do.

I also agree with the PP. Innate ability will only get you so far in life. In sports, at work. Anywhere. Better off learning that you need to prepare for things. I'll take an average IQ hard-worker over a lazy genius any day on my team at work.

I'd take the genius in my field given the two choices, but I'd definitely take a smart-but-not-genius hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

depends on nature of work. for routine/normal day to day work, yes, I agree. for the work that requires innovation, i'd take the lazy genius.

Really? Like what? I can't think of any business where I'd want the lazy genius!

Lazy genius here. Regardless of sector, if you're looking for any kind of innovation or disruption, you're better off with me. You'll have a superior concept, flaws and risks will have been anticipated and addressed, leaving you with a significant competitive advantage.

That said, you're certainly better off hiring a hard-worker to bring said innovation to fruition and to maintain it going forward. The idea and launch are the interesting parts and the balance mere tedium. After 2 years at the outside, I'm worthless and it's off the to next project.

We're complementary.

Most of the geniuses I met are intrinsically curious. They cannot stop thinking. What exactly do you mean by lazy genius?

I've found that curiousity is a double-edged sword.

I'm immensely curious. For example, on a typical day, I'll read 6-8 newspapers, 2-3 news magazines, and substantial portions of 1-2 books.

The problem, such as it is, is that I'd much rather indulge my curiousity than diligently review the fourth round of revisions to a proposal.

Conceptualizing the proposal? Interesting. Overseeing the first draft and refining the idea? Interesting.

Dealing with the subsequent minutiae? I'm not the guy.

I'm sufficiently conscientious that I'll slog through in the short run if necessary, but my clients would most assuredly be better off having someone else do the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

This. If MoCo did a better job meeting the needs of above average students, this wouldn't even be an issue. But MCPS does not and has this crazy system so parents do what they need to do.

I also agree with the PP. Innate ability will only get you so far in life. In sports, at work. Anywhere. Better off learning that you need to prepare for things. I'll take an average IQ hard-worker over a lazy genius any day on my team at work.

I'd take the genius in my field given the two choices, but I'd definitely take a smart-but-not-genius hard worker over a lazy genius any day.

depends on nature of work. for routine/normal day to day work, yes, I agree. for the work that requires innovation, i'd take the lazy genius.

Really? Like what? I can't think of any business where I'd want the lazy genius!

Lazy genius here. Regardless of sector, if you're looking for any kind of innovation or disruption, you're better off with me. You'll have a superior concept, flaws and risks will have been anticipated and addressed, leaving you with a significant competitive advantage.

That said, you're certainly better off hiring a hard-worker to bring said innovation to fruition and to maintain it going forward. The idea and launch are the interesting parts and the balance mere tedium. After 2 years at the outside, I'm worthless and it's off the to next project.

We're complementary.

Valid points. But I'm wondering how 'lazy' you actually are. Maybe not exactly as 'lazy' as I was thinking!

When I say 'lazy' genius, I'm more thinking of the kids who show immense potential in school, score super well on tests, but don't have the discipline and will power to pay attention in school and end up not doing well. I was in our GT program growing up and saw this happen with several kids. Smart kids with potential, but not enough motivation. They get labeled 'smart' and assume that means things should come easy. Then they don't know how to move forward when there is a challenge.

I'm more saying that I'd take the hard-working smart kid in this case. Who knows the value of preparation and hard work.

If you are in business, then I'm going to guess you're not as lazy as you think!

Probably so. It's more of a continuum than an either-or and I certainly fall on the "lazy" end of the spectrum.

Tested off the charts since I was 7 YO and was able to excel through college and grad school with a combination of natural ability and minimal diligence.

I'm self-interested and conscientious enough to do what's necessary to succeed. Once bored, though, quality of output diminishes markedly and it's time to move on to the next project.