Gifted and talented test prep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't prepping always make you wonder...... is your child actually gifted?

It makes me wonder why more people don't prep! The workbooks are cheap and easy. Why would you not do it??

Because there are a lot of better things your third-grade child can do with the time than questionably-effective test prep to get into a two-year program.

Absolutely positively DO PREPARE! Everybody prepares, and especially those who
will tell you not to prepare just so they can thin the herd.
First of all no test is perfect in judging giftedness. It tests certain abilities and above all ability to taking tests

Therefore if you won't teach a kid to take test as in: answering questions at a very fast pace
under time pressure and teaching them to pace themselves and time manage watching clock
then you are setting your kid for failure.

Just as those who stated above, check the tests that are going to be administered and find
online resources to let your kid to practice.
Easy way is to just go to youtube and put the test name and grade level and you will
find plenty practice tests that will scare you but they will actually be manageable once
you and your kid get a hand of them.

Believe me, they are not as easy as walk in the park and even adults have to think a bit
to find an answer as they are pretty tricky. Once you will see the questions you will
know what I meant. You will understand why it is so important for your child
to practice them as much as possible.

The actual tests are nothing of a kind of learning that the kids do at school so
they are difficult for children regardless of the giftedness level.
Giftedness and Talents are not limited to test taking. Many kids who
are awesomely gifted do not do that great with some of those tests
just because Giftedness is so much more than those tests.

You can find also some cheap and good tests on testingmom website
for those specific tests. they are peanuts comparing to some nonesnsial
testing sites people mentioned here. This site charages like ten bucks or so
for three months and not hundreds of dollars and is just as great.
Do you really need someone to do this work for you if you can
sit with your kid and analyze questions together so you can learn
the process and then a kid can take from there and prepare themselves.

Kids love those tests once they get a hang of them as they are
like puzzles. That alone is indication of giftedness, curiosity for learning
and inquisitiveness and they will need loads of it if they get into Gifted
Center as if they don't have that they won't success everyday studies
that are very demanding.

Getting kids prepared for testing is not cheating. Those kids who get in
do not get in on tests alone but also based on teachers recommendations
and parents evaluations.

Gifted child is not the same a kid who just can study and study to
finally get material and good grade. That is not giftedness, that is hard work.
They do not look for this kind of kids, those kids do well in normal
schools being best students. Gifted Center is for exceptional minds
who learn fast, are curious, love to study beyond homework.
Those kids do not just do homework, they just can't stop to expand
the homework by research and explorations.

If a kid gets to a Gifted Center who does not have those abilities,
they just do not manage and drop out. So preparing for the test
at all cost will end right there and will hurt a kid so keep that in mind.
However even most brilliant kid will benefit from learning to do the test
itself as in preparing by doing few sample tests as provide on sample
websites and doing them in a timely manner there is no question about it.

About Catholic school - totally not a problem.
Of course you can just call CGES and ask
for Gifted Education coordinator and ask but as far as I know,
the program is available for EVERYBODY, regardless of type of schooling
be it private, catholic or even homeschooling.

If you want to prepare kid to be successful at Gfited Program,
then do not only focus on the test but on teaching them and exposing
to all kinds of learning, and subjects, history, art, mathematics,
science. Have them research on their own, teach them to love
to read and write and expand their minds.

Kids at Gifted Center read few books per week not because
they have to but that too, but because they love to. The read
a book Harry Potter type in two sittings..
And writing, they write so much there so if you are preparing
a child to succeed there they must love to write few pages
in one sitting with passion. Otherwise it will be very difficult
on a child to succeed even if they pass the test with flying colors.

A child who will be pushed somehow into Gifted Center
but won't love to read, write, create and research they will
be miserable plenty, stressed and very very lonely.
Kids who do not have imagination and creativity stand
no chance with their peers who area all like that.
Again, hard work is not enough. Creativity and self drive
is a key. That is what Gifted Programs are looking for.

Wow, just wow! I post here a lot, but you really need to get a life!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't prepping always make you wonder...... is your child actually gifted?

It makes me wonder why more people don't prep! The workbooks are cheap and easy. Why would you not do it??

Because there are a lot of better things your third-grade child can do with the time than questionably-effective test prep to get into a two-year program.

Absolutely positively DO PREPARE! Everybody prepares, and especially those who
will tell you not to prepare just so they can thin the herd.
First of all no test is perfect in judging giftedness. It tests certain abilities and above all ability to taking tests

Therefore if you won't teach a kid to take test as in: answering questions at a very fast pace
under time pressure and teaching them to pace themselves and time manage watching clock
then you are setting your kid for failure.

Just as those who stated above, check the tests that are going to be administered and find
online resources to let your kid to practice.
Easy way is to just go to youtube and put the test name and grade level and you will
find plenty practice tests that will scare you but they will actually be manageable once
you and your kid get a hand of them.

Believe me, they are not as easy as walk in the park and even adults have to think a bit
to find an answer as they are pretty tricky. Once you will see the questions you will
know what I meant. You will understand why it is so important for your child
to practice them as much as possible.

The actual tests are nothing of a kind of learning that the kids do at school so
they are difficult for children regardless of the giftedness level.
Giftedness and Talents are not limited to test taking. Many kids who
are awesomely gifted do not do that great with some of those tests
just because Giftedness is so much more than those tests.

You can find also some cheap and good tests on testingmom website
for those specific tests. they are peanuts comparing to some nonesnsial
testing sites people mentioned here. This site charages like ten bucks or so
for three months and not hundreds of dollars and is just as great.
Do you really need someone to do this work for you if you can
sit with your kid and analyze questions together so you can learn
the process and then a kid can take from there and prepare themselves.

Kids love those tests once they get a hang of them as they are
like puzzles. That alone is indication of giftedness, curiosity for learning
and inquisitiveness and they will need loads of it if they get into Gifted
Center as if they don't have that they won't success everyday studies
that are very demanding.

Getting kids prepared for testing is not cheating. Those kids who get in
do not get in on tests alone but also based on teachers recommendations
and parents evaluations.

Gifted child is not the same a kid who just can study and study to
finally get material and good grade. That is not giftedness, that is hard work.
They do not look for this kind of kids, those kids do well in normal
schools being best students. Gifted Center is for exceptional minds
who learn fast, are curious, love to study beyond homework.
Those kids do not just do homework, they just can't stop to expand
the homework by research and explorations.

If a kid gets to a Gifted Center who does not have those abilities,
they just do not manage and drop out. So preparing for the test
at all cost will end right there and will hurt a kid so keep that in mind.
However even most brilliant kid will benefit from learning to do the test
itself as in preparing by doing few sample tests as provide on sample
websites and doing them in a timely manner there is no question about it.

About Catholic school - totally not a problem.
Of course you can just call CGES and ask
for Gifted Education coordinator and ask but as far as I know,
the program is available for EVERYBODY, regardless of type of schooling
be it private, catholic or even homeschooling.

If you want to prepare kid to be successful at Gfited Program,
then do not only focus on the test but on teaching them and exposing
to all kinds of learning, and subjects, history, art, mathematics,
science. Have them research on their own, teach them to love
to read and write and expand their minds.

Kids at Gifted Center read few books per week not because
they have to but that too, but because they love to. The read
a book Harry Potter type in two sittings..
And writing, they write so much there so if you are preparing
a child to succeed there they must love to write few pages
in one sitting with passion. Otherwise it will be very difficult
on a child to succeed even if they pass the test with flying colors.

A child who will be pushed somehow into Gifted Center
but won't love to read, write, create and research they will
be miserable plenty, stressed and very very lonely.
Kids who do not have imagination and creativity stand
no chance with their peers who area all like that.
Again, hard work is not enough. Creativity and self drive
is a key. That is what Gifted Programs are looking for.

Wow, just wow! I post here a lot, but you really need to get a life!

Wow, just wow! You are obnoxious.

I am not the PP but I found her post helpful. You are the one who needs to 'get a life' if you feel the need to put other people down who are trying to be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If my kids needs to study to get into gifted program(which I don't believe in btw) then my kids do not belong int the gifted program. Who makes their second grader study for gifted exam?? Bunch of crazy parents, that's who. This makes my thread about who is crazier academic or sports parents so justified!

You "don't believe in" the gifted program?

What does that even mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to know if test prep is cheating, ask your school. Ask them what test they are using so your child can prepare. See what their response is to you. That should tell you what you need to know. The schools do not publicize the contents of the tests because the schools do not want the results to be influenced by the parents.

Please enlighten me (not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious). If the contents of MCPS HGC tests are such a secret, why do top private schools require their applicants to take well-publicized intelligence tests and send them the results? Wouldn't it be 'fair' to have every Sidwell applicant take an unknown highly classified test proctored by the teachers in the same classroom on the same day rather than letting Larlo know in advance he should study for and take the WISC-V to get in?

Using this logic, why is it such a secret that HGC applicants would be required to take Cogat and be recommended by their second-grade teacher?

Those two admission processes are unrelated. Private schools tell you to take the WISC. MCPS doesn't tell you anything. The only way to find out what the exam is is to search for it on the internet. Of course that's cheating. If you were applying for a job and they said come see us, no need to prepare, just get a good night's sleep, and we will have some interview questions for you, do you think it would be cheating to go look at Internet message boards to try to figure out what the interview questions will be? Think about it -- how did you even know they used the cogat (which I don't think they use anymore)? You read it on an internet message board. It's cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want to know if test prep is cheating, ask your school. Ask them what test they are using so your child can prepare. See what their response is to you. That should tell you what you need to know. The schools do not publicize the contents of the tests because the schools do not want the results to be influenced by the parents.

Please enlighten me (not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious). If the contents of MCPS HGC tests are such a secret, why do top private schools require their applicants to take well-publicized intelligence tests and send them the results? Wouldn't it be 'fair' to have every Sidwell applicant take an unknown highly classified test proctored by the teachers in the same classroom on the same day rather than letting Larlo know in advance he should study for and take the WISC-V to get in?

Using this logic, why is it such a secret that HGC applicants would be required to take Cogat and be recommended by their second-grade teacher?

Those two admission processes are unrelated. Private schools tell you to take the WISC. MCPS doesn't tell you anything. The only way to find out what the exam is is to search for it on the internet. Of course that's cheating. If you were applying for a job and they said come see us, no need to prepare, just get a good night's sleep, and we will have some interview questions for you, do you think it would be cheating to go look at Internet message boards to try to figure out what the interview questions will be? Think about it -- how did you even know they used the cogat (which I don't think they use anymore)? You read it on an internet message board. It's cheating.

The question is, why? Why doesn't MCPS tell all HGC applicants that they will take the Cogat (or the NNAT, or whatever else) and private schools do? Admission to top privates is equally competitive, if not more so, than HGC admission..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Studying is for cheaters!

When it comes to tests for innate ability, yup.

Nothing more than an attempt to manipulate results to make ordinary children appear to be "gifted".

Hilarious. If that's really true then you wouldn't be threatened by kids who study. It's all 'innate'? Then how would studying help?

Yes, all these white upper middle class children in HGCs are innately brighter. That's totally believable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Studying is for cheaters!

When it comes to tests for innate ability, yup.

Nothing more than an attempt to manipulate results to make ordinary children appear to be "gifted".

Hilarious. If that's really true then you wouldn't be threatened by kids who study. It's all 'innate'? Then how would studying help?

Yes, all these white upper middle class children in HGCs are innately brighter. That's totally believable.

Actually the white upper-middle-class children at my child's HGC are few and far between. It's mostly the children of upper-middle-class East Asian and South Asian immigrants. And almost all of them (says my child) did test prep classes for the middle-school magnet program. Did the test prep classes make a difference to their magnet admission/non-admission? Not as far as I can tell. The test prep classes cost a lot of money, though, and they took up a lot of time.

For reference: my child is white but not upper-middle-class (by Montgomery County standards), did not prep for the elementary-school HGC test, and did not prep for the middle-school magnet test beyond working through the materials MCPS handed out.

[Anonymous]

^^^For what it's worth, if parents want to spend the money and time on test prep classes, that's fine with me. I think it's wasted money and mis-spent time, but it's not my money or time, and people get to make their own choices.

The only thing I would find problematic is if the test prep organizations get test-takers to tell them what was on the test, and then basically sell that information to the next year's group of test preppers. That would be cheating -- not because of the studying, but because people who paid for test prep classes would have inside information that other people would not have.

[Anonymous]

The poster's strategy is to convince others not to prep so their child who preps can have an even greater advantage...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^For what it's worth, if parents want to spend the money and time on test prep classes, that's fine with me. I think it's wasted money and mis-spent time, but it's not my money or time, and people get to make their own choices.

The only thing I would find problematic is if the test prep organizations get test-takers to tell them what was on the test, and then basically sell that information to the next year's group of test preppers. That would be cheating -- not because of the studying, but because people who paid for test prep classes would have inside information that other people would not have.

Welcome to reality!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^For what it's worth, if parents want to spend the money and time on test prep classes, that's fine with me. I think it's wasted money and mis-spent time, but it's not my money or time, and people get to make their own choices.

The only thing I would find problematic is if the test prep organizations get test-takers to tell them what was on the test, and then basically sell that information to the next year's group of test preppers. That would be cheating -- not because of the studying, but because people who paid for test prep classes would have inside information that other people would not have.

Welcome to reality!

Yeah, but what can MCPS do about it? Plus it's not the only aspect of the MCPS application magnets I'm not so wild about.

I'm the PP you're responding to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Studying is for cheaters!

When it comes to tests for innate ability, yup.

Nothing more than an attempt to manipulate results to make ordinary children appear to be "gifted".

Hilarious. If that's really true then you wouldn't be threatened by kids who study. It's all 'innate'? Then how would studying help?

Yes, all these white upper middle class children in HGCs are innately brighter. That's totally believable.

Sour grapes much? at what point is it the people who fails fault? Even if you buy the "it takes a village" stick and a kid is just one member, then that speaks to your village's lack of ability too. Competition is tough and finding ways to win is fundamental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a joke. If the test scores can be improved through studying or taking practice tests, then *by definition* the test is not one that measures innate ability.

Moreover, many very smart kids don't do well on timed/multiple choice tests, no matter how smart they are. Smarter even than the kids who ace the test first try. The idea that the CoGAT measures "true giftedness" is naive and uninformed.

I assume all of you parents with your knickers in a knot about taking practice tests for the CoGAT will not be buying review books for the SAT or sending your kids to prep classes when the time comes. Standardized tests in many ways are best at measuring one variable: the student's ability to take standardized tests.

This.

[Anonymous]

People are right. Prepping will not make a non-gifted kid get into a HGC. However, prepping will help a gifted kid get an edge over another gifted kid. Since the seats are limited, your gifted child is not competing against good students or hardworking students, they are competing against other gifted students.

Every child in the HGC belongs there. There are no students who do not belong there. Regardless of if they prepped or not.

[Anonymous]

My nieces and nephews have always been in magnet schools and Ivy league colleges. They always prepped. They are now in highly successful careers and really enjoying the fruits of their labor because in real life they do not have to have genius brains. They just need to work hard and get ahead.

Are most successful people in the world, the people in position of power also the smartest people with innate abilities? No. So, don't worry if someone tells you that your kids do not have innate abilities if they have to prep. If they can prep and get ahead at least they have worked hard and studied hard to reach where they need to reach.

Some kids have innate abilities, some were breastfed and have superior brains, some had SAHMs parenting them and some were not allowed to CIO. There are so many advantages that a child can have, how can we say that one advantage helped more than another?