Upper middle class (not adjusted for COL) ends at 350K HHI nationally, DC is 476K-525K

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

Not a doctor or lawyer. Own a business, which creates jobs and provides a service other businesses need. Jobs created are high paying with great benefits. Most lawyers add almost nothing to the world, and thankfully those jobs are slowly being automated away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

Not a doctor or lawyer. Own a business, which creates jobs and provides a service other businesses need. Jobs created are high paying with great benefits. Most lawyers add almost nothing to the world, and thankfully those jobs are slowly being automated away.

Hats off!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

Not a doctor or lawyer. Own a business, which creates jobs and provides a service other businesses need. Jobs created are high paying with great benefits. Most lawyers add almost nothing to the world, and thankfully those jobs are slowly being automated away.

Fellow business owner here and I completely disagree with your assessment.

First, the lawyers. Sure I've gasped at the hourly rate, winced when I wrote a six figure retainer check, and I know when I get invited out for drinks exactly who is the one paying the tab even if I don't have to reach for my wallet. As a fellow business owner, you know the unrelenting truth that the customer pays for everything. But reflect on why it is that the US economy is so strong, why do businesses here flourish, especially small businesses. Why did immigrants flood to the US to make their own fortune? Our businesses are successful and our employees earn good income because our productivity is protected by a stable and well enforced system of law. Everything from the US constitution down to the locality code has been put in place to protect and serve our collective interests. Laws by nature are complex and just as you and I have accountants to help manage financial transactions, you and I sometimes need the help of lawyers to make sure that we conduct our business in a legal manner. Lawyers serve a very real need here - you have the option of representing yourself, arguing your own case, but the responsibility is then upon you to know the law and procedure. If you are not an expert in legal matters, just as you may not be an expert in accounting/tax matters, then you hire someone who is. That person is then delivering value to you, value that is determined by the prevailing market rate for the work being performed. Lawyers are like any other profession, there are good lawyers and bad lawyers, just as there are good and bad cooks in a restaurant. For any business owner to take the view that lawyers add almost nothing to the world is asinine.

Second, doctors, which is actually closely related to the first. Doctors are expensive in the US because the US court system places very high value on the life and limb of people. There is a very high standard to becoming a doctor in the US, with different fields having different exposure to risk of a malpractice suit. I am not here to argue that we have a perfect medical industry, or whether the single payer system is better than private insurance. What I do want to point out is that the doctors in the US make a good living because they provide arguably the best quality of care in the world. Lets not confuse quality of health care with health care access - which is one area that the US could certainly improve on. Often you'll see people conflate the access to healthcare in the US with the quality of care provided. The truth of the matter is that the US has the best trained and best equipped doctors and hospitals in the world, which is why the rich people in the world are mostly likely to come to the US to get treatment. Again, we can debate health care access in the US as a separate tangential topic, but blaming the doctors in the US for providing a superior service and earning the market rate for that service is also asinine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

Not a doctor or lawyer. Own a business, which creates jobs and provides a service other businesses need. Jobs created are high paying with great benefits. Most lawyers add almost nothing to the world, and thankfully those jobs are slowly being automated away.

Fellow business owner here and I completely disagree with your assessment.

First, the lawyers. Sure I've gasped at the hourly rate, winced when I wrote a six figure retainer check, and I know when I get invited out for drinks exactly who is the one paying the tab even if I don't have to reach for my wallet. As a fellow business owner, you know the unrelenting truth that the customer pays for everything. But reflect on why it is that the US economy is so strong, why do businesses here flourish, especially small businesses. Why did immigrants flood to the US to make their own fortune? Our businesses are successful and our employees earn good income because our productivity is protected by a stable and well enforced system of law. Everything from the US constitution down to the locality code has been put in place to protect and serve our collective interests. Laws by nature are complex and just as you and I have accountants to help manage financial transactions, you and I sometimes need the help of lawyers to make sure that we conduct our business in a legal manner. Lawyers serve a very real need here - you have the option of representing yourself, arguing your own case, but the responsibility is then upon you to know the law and procedure. If you are not an expert in legal matters, just as you may not be an expert in accounting/tax matters, then you hire someone who is. That person is then delivering value to you, value that is determined by the prevailing market rate for the work being performed. Lawyers are like any other profession, there are good lawyers and bad lawyers, just as there are good and bad cooks in a restaurant. For any business owner to take the view that lawyers add almost nothing to the world is asinine.

Second, doctors, which is actually closely related to the first. Doctors are expensive in the US because the US court system places very high value on the life and limb of people. There is a very high standard to becoming a doctor in the US, with different fields having different exposure to risk of a malpractice suit. I am not here to argue that we have a perfect medical industry, or whether the single payer system is better than private insurance. What I do want to point out is that the doctors in the US make a good living because they provide arguably the best quality of care in the world. Lets not confuse quality of health care with health care access - which is one area that the US could certainly improve on. Often you'll see people conflate the access to healthcare in the US with the quality of care provided. The truth of the matter is that the US has the best trained and best equipped doctors and hospitals in the world, which is why the rich people in the world are mostly likely to come to the US to get treatment. Again, we can debate health care access in the US as a separate tangential topic, but blaming the doctors in the US for providing a superior service and earning the market rate for that service is also asinine.

You are conflating the rule of law with lawyers. I've never seen more money wasted more quickly than when lawyers get involved in a business dispute. Best lesson I ever learned was when I was meeting with a customer with my then boss, and the customer brought a lawyer to the meeting. My boss said something to this effect "I'm here to discuss a business issue, and I did not bring a lawyer. I can leave now, and bring back a lawyer, which will cost us all a lot of time and money. Or we can solve this together without lawyers." The customer's CEO's dismissed the lawyer, and we solved the problem.

Do businesses need the rule of law? Yes. Do we need lawyers when disputes turn really ugly? Yes. Are lawyers way too prevalent in US business? Yes again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

LOLLL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

Not all doctors and lawyers make a lot of money. Sure, some top notch partners in Big Law make $$$. They graduated at the top of their classes from the best law schools and/or are extremely specialized. Plenty of lawyers graduating from average schools earning 50k, working gov jobs earning less than 100k or not being able to find work as a lawyer at all. The US has very high standards in medicine. Also not all doctors make a lot of money. Some superior doctors do start dropping insurances who don't pay out well. They have limited time in their clinic and operating rooms so they can choose to be selective of their patients. DH has colleagues in NYC who accept cash because insurance companies continue to cut their reimbursements. People from all over the world will fly to get surgery from them. For the uber rich in European, Asian and Middle Eastern countries will fly to the US to have surgery and pay for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

Not a doctor or lawyer. Own a business, which creates jobs and provides a service other businesses need. Jobs created are high paying with great benefits. Most lawyers add almost nothing to the world, and thankfully those jobs are slowly being automated away.

Fellow business owner here and I completely disagree with your assessment.

First, the lawyers. Sure I've gasped at the hourly rate, winced when I wrote a six figure retainer check, and I know when I get invited out for drinks exactly who is the one paying the tab even if I don't have to reach for my wallet. As a fellow business owner, you know the unrelenting truth that the customer pays for everything. But reflect on why it is that the US economy is so strong, why do businesses here flourish, especially small businesses. Why did immigrants flood to the US to make their own fortune? Our businesses are successful and our employees earn good income because our productivity is protected by a stable and well enforced system of law. Everything from the US constitution down to the locality code has been put in place to protect and serve our collective interests. Laws by nature are complex and just as you and I have accountants to help manage financial transactions, you and I sometimes need the help of lawyers to make sure that we conduct our business in a legal manner. Lawyers serve a very real need here - you have the option of representing yourself, arguing your own case, but the responsibility is then upon you to know the law and procedure. If you are not an expert in legal matters, just as you may not be an expert in accounting/tax matters, then you hire someone who is. That person is then delivering value to you, value that is determined by the prevailing market rate for the work being performed. Lawyers are like any other profession, there are good lawyers and bad lawyers, just as there are good and bad cooks in a restaurant. For any business owner to take the view that lawyers add almost nothing to the world is asinine.

Second, doctors, which is actually closely related to the first. Doctors are expensive in the US because the US court system places very high value on the life and limb of people. There is a very high standard to becoming a doctor in the US, with different fields having different exposure to risk of a malpractice suit. I am not here to argue that we have a perfect medical industry, or whether the single payer system is better than private insurance. What I do want to point out is that the doctors in the US make a good living because they provide arguably the best quality of care in the world. Lets not confuse quality of health care with health care access - which is one area that the US could certainly improve on. Often you'll see people conflate the access to healthcare in the US with the quality of care provided. The truth of the matter is that the US has the best trained and best equipped doctors and hospitals in the world, which is why the rich people in the world are mostly likely to come to the US to get treatment. Again, we can debate health care access in the US as a separate tangential topic, but blaming the doctors in the US for providing a superior service and earning the market rate for that service is also asinine.

You are conflating the rule of law with lawyers. I've never seen more money wasted more quickly than when lawyers get involved in a business dispute. Best lesson I ever learned was when I was meeting with a customer with my then boss, and the customer brought a lawyer to the meeting. My boss said something to this effect "I'm here to discuss a business issue, and I did not bring a lawyer. I can leave now, and bring back a lawyer, which will cost us all a lot of time and money. Or we can solve this together without lawyers." The customer's CEO's dismissed the lawyer, and we solved the problem.

Do businesses need the rule of law? Yes. Do we need lawyers when disputes turn really ugly? Yes. Are lawyers way too prevalent in US business? Yes again.

What a ridiculous line of reasoning. So because *some people* are sue happy, therefore lawyers are bad? Our legal system encourage people to work through their differences themselves rather than through a court of law. However a court of law is there to help resolve disputes, with the aid of lawyers. Aside from settling disputes, lawyers also serve the important function of helping you ensure that documents are properly written and legal procedures are properly followed. These types of activities help prevent disputes, not generate them.

Are lawyers too prevalent? Depends on your perspective. If someone loves waving a knife around, is that the fault of the knife, or the person doing the waving?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

What does your tax rate have to do with your wealth? Seems like that would be based on the amount of money you have after taxes...which is still in the upper percentiles of most people's gross income. My HHI is closer to your after tax income than your gross, and our tax rate is similar to yours. I'm the person that you responded too. I'm still not dense enough to think I'm MC, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

So after you paid all your taxes your left with almost 525k (43k per month) to spend however you like and you still don't feel rich? Vast majority of households live on less than you have to spend in one month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

Not a doctor or lawyer. Own a business, which creates jobs and provides a service other businesses need. Jobs created are high paying with great benefits. Most lawyers add almost nothing to the world, and thankfully those jobs are slowly being automated away.

Fellow business owner here and I completely disagree with your assessment.

First, the lawyers. Sure I've gasped at the hourly rate, winced when I wrote a six figure retainer check, and I know when I get invited out for drinks exactly who is the one paying the tab even if I don't have to reach for my wallet. As a fellow business owner, you know the unrelenting truth that the customer pays for everything. But reflect on why it is that the US economy is so strong, why do businesses here flourish, especially small businesses. Why did immigrants flood to the US to make their own fortune? Our businesses are successful and our employees earn good income because our productivity is protected by a stable and well enforced system of law. Everything from the US constitution down to the locality code has been put in place to protect and serve our collective interests. Laws by nature are complex and just as you and I have accountants to help manage financial transactions, you and I sometimes need the help of lawyers to make sure that we conduct our business in a legal manner. Lawyers serve a very real need here - you have the option of representing yourself, arguing your own case, but the responsibility is then upon you to know the law and procedure. If you are not an expert in legal matters, just as you may not be an expert in accounting/tax matters, then you hire someone who is. That person is then delivering value to you, value that is determined by the prevailing market rate for the work being performed. Lawyers are like any other profession, there are good lawyers and bad lawyers, just as there are good and bad cooks in a restaurant. For any business owner to take the view that lawyers add almost nothing to the world is asinine.

Second, doctors, which is actually closely related to the first. Doctors are expensive in the US because the US court system places very high value on the life and limb of people. There is a very high standard to becoming a doctor in the US, with different fields having different exposure to risk of a malpractice suit. I am not here to argue that we have a perfect medical industry, or whether the single payer system is better than private insurance. What I do want to point out is that the doctors in the US make a good living because they provide arguably the best quality of care in the world. Lets not confuse quality of health care with health care access - which is one area that the US could certainly improve on. Often you'll see people conflate the access to healthcare in the US with the quality of care provided. The truth of the matter is that the US has the best trained and best equipped doctors and hospitals in the world, which is why the rich people in the world are mostly likely to come to the US to get treatment. Again, we can debate health care access in the US as a separate tangential topic, but blaming the doctors in the US for providing a superior service and earning the market rate for that service is also asinine.

no

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. [b] DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

Not all doctors and lawyers make a lot of money. Sure, some top notch partners in Big Law make $$$. They graduated at the top of their classes from the best law schools and/or are extremely specialized. Plenty of lawyers graduating from average schools earning 50k, working gov jobs earning less than 100k or not being able to find work as a lawyer at all. The US has very high standards in medicine. Also not all doctors make a lot of money. Some superior doctors do start dropping insurances who don't pay out well. They have limited time in their clinic and operating rooms so they can choose to be selective of their patients. DH has colleagues in NYC who accept cash because insurance companies continue to cut their reimbursements. People from all over the world will fly to get surgery from them. For the uber rich in European, Asian and Middle Eastern countries will fly to the US to have surgery and pay for it.[/quote

All doctors make six figures...the average salary for family physicians now is upwards of $200k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. [b] DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

Not all doctors and lawyers make a lot of money. Sure, some top notch partners in Big Law make $$$. They graduated at the top of their classes from the best law schools and/or are extremely specialized. Plenty of lawyers graduating from average schools earning 50k, working gov jobs earning less than 100k or not being able to find work as a lawyer at all. The US has very high standards in medicine. Also not all doctors make a lot of money. Some superior doctors do start dropping insurances who don't pay out well. They have limited time in their clinic and operating rooms so they can choose to be selective of their patients. DH has colleagues in NYC who accept cash because insurance companies continue to cut their reimbursements. People from all over the world will fly to get surgery from them. For the uber rich in European, Asian and Middle Eastern countries will fly to the US to have surgery and pay for it.[/quote

All doctors make six figures...the average salary for family physicians now is upwards of $200k.

+1
no doctor is making less than $250K (300K for most specialties) by choice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. [b] DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

Not all doctors and lawyers make a lot of money. Sure, some top notch partners in Big Law make $$$. They graduated at the top of their classes from the best law schools and/or are extremely specialized. Plenty of lawyers graduating from average schools earning 50k, working gov jobs earning less than 100k or not being able to find work as a lawyer at all. The US has very high standards in medicine. Also not all doctors make a lot of money. Some superior doctors do start dropping insurances who don't pay out well. They have limited time in their clinic and operating rooms so they can choose to be selective of their patients. DH has colleagues in NYC who accept cash because insurance companies continue to cut their reimbursements. People from all over the world will fly to get surgery from them. For the uber rich in European, Asian and Middle Eastern countries will fly to the US to have surgery and pay for it.[/quote

All doctors make six figures...the average salary for family physicians now is upwards of $200k.

+1
no doctor is making less than $250K (300K for most specialties) by choice

There are plenty of doctors making less than that (I make about $160k). Not sure what you mean by choice though, I can't go to my boss and say "now I choose to make $250k". I assume you mean I could leave and join a private practice and make more, but that could be said of any profession that wants to do that (by sacrificing ____)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest that the fact the range goes up to $350k would indicate there is already an allowance for COL.

Even if DC, someone making $400k doesn't get to call themselves upper middle class. Sorry.

+1

The range is $100k-350k. This includes DC and other high COL areas. Sorry OP, if you're above that, you're above upper middle class.

The range is ridiculous. 100k and 350k is a whole different economic world in high cola areas. FIT breakpoints are such rip offs for people here. I am surprised Obama didn't attempt more to help people in large metropolitan areas. Even friggin medicare premiums have COLA punish points.