Upper middle class (not adjusted for COL) ends at 350K HHI nationally, DC is 476K-525K

[Anonymous]

I thought middle class meant you ate hamburger helper and went somewhere on vacation that you drove to. When's the last time you ate hamburger helper?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought middle class meant you ate hamburger helper and went somewhere on vacation that you drove to. When's the last time you ate hamburger helper?

OMFG, I love cheeseburger macaroni! Does that make me middle class? I don't care...I am buying some and seeing if the fam will eat it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought middle class meant you ate hamburger helper and went somewhere on vacation that you drove to. When's the last time you ate hamburger helper?

OMFG, I love cheeseburger macaroni! Does that make me middle class? I don't care...I am buying some and seeing if the fam will eat it.

I love food trucks. Does that mean I should qualify for government assistance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought middle class meant you ate hamburger helper and went somewhere on vacation that you drove to. When's the last time you ate hamburger helper?

OMFG, I love cheeseburger macaroni! Does that make me middle class? I don't care...I am buying some and seeing if the fam will eat it.

I love food trucks. Does that mean I should qualify for government assistance?

At 300k HHI, which sounds like middle to lower middle according to the OP, can I expect a lot of financial aid and free grants, etc. for DD when she goes to college? If so, this is good news!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, let me just say we don't make anywhere close to $400K. But I still think that on every single thread on this, there are some sour grapes who hate rich people and will cast everything they do as some sort of slight on poor people. Get over it. So you feel poor. I guarantee you most of the rich are not spending their days worrying about how to appear to you or how they will next make sure you know they are rich.

People are suggesting that $400K is upper-middle in this area because you need less than half that in a lower COL area like Charlotte or somewhere more rural to have the same standard of life as what that affords here. That is, a decent sized house (2500 sq in a good school district around NoVa will run you $800K these days) for your kids with a yard, good school, good childcare.

We just moved from the frigid far North and the schools there are great. The housing is much more reasonable. Fact is, if you make $200K in boondock nowhere, you'll be swimming in land and house and plenty of cheaper childcare options because both are super expensive here.

$400K gets you these things in the DC area and then a bit but you're not swimming in luxury and extra cash. You will pay out of your nose for housing and childcare and education, and you won't have much left over unless you buy in the crappy school districts and force your kids to go to a crowded public school with a bunch of ESOL students. Some people will do that. Many will not. That you don't make anywhere close to $400K is neither here nor there.

Well damn. Our HHI is 95k. I think we are doing fine. Our kid goes to a school rated a 9 on great schools - with a very low Farms rate. I don't feel poor. and that's why I find these threads so fascinating.... How can someone making 4x what we make think they aren't doing well???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, let me just say we don't make anywhere close to $400K. But I still think that on every single thread on this, there are some sour grapes who hate rich people and will cast everything they do as some sort of slight on poor people. Get over it. So you feel poor. I guarantee you most of the rich are not spending their days worrying about how to appear to you or how they will next make sure you know they are rich.

People are suggesting that $400K is upper-middle in this area because you need less than half that in a lower COL area like Charlotte or somewhere more rural to have the same standard of life as what that affords here. That is, a decent sized house (2500 sq in a good school district around NoVa will run you $800K these days) for your kids with a yard, good school, good childcare.

We just moved from the frigid far North and the schools there are great. The housing is much more reasonable. Fact is, if you make $200K in boondock nowhere, you'll be swimming in land and house and plenty of cheaper childcare options because both are super expensive here.

$400K gets you these things in the DC area and then a bit but you're not swimming in luxury and extra cash. You will pay out of your nose for housing and childcare and education, and you won't have much left over unless you buy in the crappy school districts and force your kids to go to a crowded public school with a bunch of ESOL students. Some people will do that. Many will not. That you don't make anywhere close to $400K is neither here nor there.

Well damn. Our HHI is 95k. I think we are doing fine. Our kid goes to a school rated a 9 on great schools - with a very low Farms rate. I don't feel poor. and that's why I find these threads so fascinating.... How can someone making 4x what we make think they aren't doing well???

At an HHI of 95K, do you expect to have any income in retirement other than Social Security? Your kid will get a free ride to college - it's not like you have to foot the bill entirely on your own income. We save $60K a year for retirement and another $20k a year for college for our two kids.

[Anonymous]

People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, let me just say we don't make anywhere close to $400K. But I still think that on every single thread on this, there are some sour grapes who hate rich people and will cast everything they do as some sort of slight on poor people. Get over it. So you feel poor. I guarantee you most of the rich are not spending their days worrying about how to appear to you or how they will next make sure you know they are rich.

People are suggesting that $400K is upper-middle in this area because you need less than half that in a lower COL area like Charlotte or somewhere more rural to have the same standard of life as what that affords here. That is, a decent sized house (2500 sq in a good school district around NoVa will run you $800K these days) for your kids with a yard, good school, good childcare.

We just moved from the frigid far North and the schools there are great. The housing is much more reasonable. Fact is, if you make $200K in boondock nowhere, you'll be swimming in land and house and plenty of cheaper childcare options because both are super expensive here.

$400K gets you these things in the DC area and then a bit but you're not swimming in luxury and extra cash. You will pay out of your nose for housing and childcare and education, and you won't have much left over unless you buy in the crappy school districts and force your kids to go to a crowded public school with a bunch of ESOL students. Some people will do that. Many will not. That you don't make anywhere close to $400K is neither here nor there.

Well damn. Our HHI is 95k. I think we are doing fine. Our kid goes to a school rated a 9 on great schools - with a very low Farms rate. I don't feel poor. and that's why I find these threads so fascinating.... How can someone making 4x what we make think they aren't doing well???

At an HHI of 95K, do you expect to have any income in retirement other than Social Security? Your kid will get a free ride to college - it's not like you have to foot the bill entirely on your own income. We save $60K a year for retirement and another $20k a year for college for our two kids.

yes I expect to have income in retirement. Putting 13% into the 401k now. I am not so sure my kid will get a "free" ride to college. 95k is a lot of income in many parts of the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First of all, let me just say we don't make anywhere close to $400K. But I still think that on every single thread on this, there are some sour grapes who hate rich people and will cast everything they do as some sort of slight on poor people. Get over it. So you feel poor. I guarantee you most of the rich are not spending their days worrying about how to appear to you or how they will next make sure you know they are rich.

People are suggesting that $400K is upper-middle in this area because you need less than half that in a lower COL area like Charlotte or somewhere more rural to have the same standard of life as what that affords here. That is, a decent sized house (2500 sq in a good school district around NoVa will run you $800K these days) for your kids with a yard, good school, good childcare.

We just moved from the frigid far North and the schools there are great. The housing is much more reasonable. Fact is, if you make $200K in boondock nowhere, you'll be swimming in land and house and plenty of cheaper childcare options because both are super expensive here.

$400K gets you these things in the DC area and then a bit but you're not swimming in luxury and extra cash. You will pay out of your nose for housing and childcare and education, and you won't have much left over unless you buy in the crappy school districts and force your kids to go to a crowded public school with a bunch of ESOL students. Some people will do that. Many will not. That you don't make anywhere close to $400K is neither here nor there.

Well damn. Our HHI is 95k. I think we are doing fine. Our kid goes to a school rated a 9 on great schools - with a very low Farms rate. I don't feel poor. and that's why I find these threads so fascinating.... How can someone making 4x what we make think they aren't doing well???

At an HHI of 95K, do you expect to have any income in retirement other than Social Security? Your kid will get a free ride to college - it's not like you have to foot the bill entirely on your own income. We save $60K a year for retirement and another $20k a year for college for our two kids.

so then you feel you are doing well at your income if you are able to save so much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

Very few people live like Bill Gates. If he is our measurement of wealthy we are all screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would suggest that the fact the range goes up to $350k would indicate there is already an allowance for COL.

Even if DC, someone making $400k doesn't get to call themselves upper middle class. Sorry.

I know we have had this arguments here a million times but 400k is not rich or wealthy in this area. It is UMC.

Yes. Some people are so disconnected from reality!

Not the pp, but very few people who actually make 400k share your sentiment. People who have personal experience of what it's like to make 400k are usually better judges of reality than those who do not.

How is the top 0.75% the middle of anything? The middle class is typically around the middle 50 percent of the income curve. With median HHI's around $80-90K in the DC metro area, the 75th percentile is around $150K. So, you're saying that in a metro area of over 6M people, with over 1.5M households, that the top 20-30K people are still middle class? Does that mean that 1.4M households out of 1.5M in the Washington metro area are poor?

No, those making 400K who think they are middle class because they spent a huge boatload of money buying expensive homes in NW, Potomac, Bethesda, Great Falls, McLean, etc, are the ones out of touch with reality. Put another way, those with $400K have this fairy tale illusion of what they think middle class is. They are out of touch with the way the actual middle class actually lives. I'm sorry, but this isn't the days of the Wally and Beaver.

We are not talking about middle, but upper middle. So all your frantic typing above is meaningless.

There are. Dry few people in NWDC making 400k.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

Europe sucks and is horrible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake. Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure. But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined. Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income. Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K. Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes. All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government. It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left.
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society. The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least.

There's a reason europe is failing