Reply to Upper middle class (not adjusted for COL) ends at 350K HHI nationally, DC is 476K-525K

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]People here are conflating class, as defined in the US which is purely statistical, with lifestyle...a common DCUM mistake.  Everyone here seems to want to define all but the top 5% as middle class...which simply isn't the reality.

What the fact that anyone but the top 5% feels like they are being pinched indicates is that there is massive income and wealth inequality in this country, and some areas are nearly unaffordable for all but the very well-off. [b] DH and I are rich by any possible measure (mid-to-high six figure HHI), but we don't live like Bill Gates for sure[/b].  But I don't run around calling myself MC either, because it would make me look like an idiot.[/quote]

In 2014 for us (which, as they say on the news, is the last year for which figures are available), my DW and I made 902K combined.  Our Fed tax bill was 277K - or 30% of our income.  Our state and property taxes amounted to another 70K.  Another 35K in Medicare and FICA taxes.  All told, 42%+ of every dollar we made went to the government.  It's hard to feel rich when you lose so much to taxes.

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You must be living in a wonderful house if state and property taxes are 70k. Even after 42% cut, it seems there is plenty left. 
Count your blessings. I am from Europe and[b] no doctor there makes anywhere near what doctors make here, same for lawyers. Others might think you are overpaid, why knows how much value you create for society.[/b] The pay scale is very unusual here to say the least. [/quote]

Not a doctor or lawyer.  Own a business, which creates jobs and provides a service other businesses need.  Jobs created are high paying with great benefits.  Most lawyers add almost nothing to the world, and thankfully those jobs are slowly being automated away.
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Fellow business owner here and I completely disagree with your assessment.

[b]First, the lawyers. Sure I've gasped at the hourly rate, winced when I wrote a six figure retainer check, and I know when I get invited out for drinks exactly who is the one paying the tab even if I don't have to reach for my wallet. As a fellow business owner, you know the unrelenting truth that the customer pays for everything. But reflect on why it is that the US economy is so strong, why do businesses here flourish, especially small businesses. Why did immigrants flood to the US to make their own fortune? Our businesses are successful and our employees earn good income because our productivity is protected by a stable and well enforced system of law. Everything from the US constitution down to the locality code has been put in place to protect and serve our collective interests. Laws by nature are complex and just as you and I have accountants to help manage financial transactions, you and I sometimes need the help of lawyers to make sure that we conduct our business in a legal manner. Lawyers serve a very real need here - you have the option of representing yourself, arguing your own case, but the responsibility is then upon you to know the law and procedure. If you are not an expert in legal matters, just as you may not be an expert in accounting/tax matters, then you hire someone who is. That person is then delivering value to you, value that is determined by the prevailing market rate for the work being performed. Lawyers are like any other profession, there are good lawyers and bad lawyers, just as there are good and bad cooks in a restaurant. For any business owner to take the view that lawyers add almost nothing to the world is asinine. [/b]

Second, doctors, which is actually closely related to the first. Doctors are expensive in the US because the US court system places very high value on the life and limb of people. There is a very high standard to becoming a doctor in the US, with different fields having different exposure to risk of a malpractice suit. I am not here to argue that we have a perfect medical industry, or whether the single payer system is better than private insurance. What I do want to point out is that the doctors in the US make a good living because they provide arguably the best quality of care in the world.  Lets not confuse quality of health care with health care access - which is one area that the US could certainly improve on. Often you'll see people conflate the access to healthcare in the US with the quality of care provided. The truth of the matter is that the US has the best trained and best equipped doctors and hospitals in the world, which is why the rich people in the world are mostly likely to come to the US to get treatment. Again, we can debate health care access in the US as a separate tangential topic, but blaming the doctors in the US for providing a superior service and earning the market rate for that service is also asinine. [/quote]

You are conflating the rule of law with lawyers.  I've never seen more money wasted more quickly than when lawyers get involved in a business dispute.  Best lesson I ever learned was when I was meeting with a customer with my then boss, and the customer brought a lawyer to the meeting.  My boss said something to this effect "I'm here to discuss a business issue, and I did not bring a lawyer.  I can leave now, and bring back a lawyer, which will cost us all a lot of time and money.  Or we can solve this together without lawyers."  The customer's CEO's dismissed the lawyer, and we solved the problem.

Do businesses need the rule of law?  Yes.  Do we need lawyers when disputes turn really ugly?  Yes.  Are lawyers way too prevalent in US business?  Yes again.  [/quote]

What a ridiculous line of reasoning. So because *some people* are sue happy, therefore lawyers are bad? Our legal system encourage people to work through their differences themselves rather than through a court of law. However a court of law is there to help resolve disputes, with the aid of lawyers. Aside from settling disputes, lawyers also serve the important function of helping you ensure that documents are properly written and legal procedures are properly followed. These types of activities help prevent disputes, not generate them.

Are lawyers too prevalent? Depends on your perspective. If someone loves waving a knife around, is that the fault of the knife, or the person doing the waving? [/quote]

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