Chinese Immersion school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever, apples and oranges. At least if your kids' Chinese is good for their age (written and spoken) you should have access to one of the MoCo programs eventually, OP. You could probably test in at any point between 1st grade and 6th grades (at Hoover).

One more thing OP might want to know. The teachers' situation at YY is radically different than at College Gardens. When we were there, the YY teachers all seemed to be mainlanders over on one or two-year contracts. Their Chinese was impeccable of course, but they didn't appear to have much of a say in the running of the school. At College Gardens, some are mainlanders but most are ABCs who grew up in dialect-speaking communities (Bay Area, NYC) and learned Mandarin in college, grad school and via working in China. They became certified teachers in MoCo by getting ed credits and field work hours. There's little turnover and teachers have a big say in how the program is designed and run. But you hear strong accents in Mandarin in both groups, mainly from Cantonese speakers (YY had a good many when we were there). Also, there's little emphasis on the immigrant experience at YY and much in the MoCo programs. Immigrant themes are often woven into assignments, e.g. Chinese Exclusion Act issues, what it was like for ancestors to come over on the boat from Asia; how holiday celebrations differ between Hong Kong and Rockville etc. Now, in MS, the kids are being introduced to the concept of lawsuits by Asian civil liberties groups protesting various forms of discrimination, and how Mandarin is crowding out Cantonese and Toisanese in North American Chinatowns etc.

Do the MD Chinese programs end in 5th grade or is it 6th?

What is the language path through 12th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MoCo is only good for Chinese kids - many threads on how white kids are not welcome.

Whatever, many of the Chinese AND white kids leave immersion for magnets and that is why it is possible to test into the Mandarin immersion program at any grade. If they did not take new students, the MoCo immersion programs will be very sparse with many of the best students leaving.

You have to ask yourself what kind of kids remain in the immersion program in the upper grades.

Not exactly. The strongest students in the two Chinese immersion programs don't all live near 4th-5th grade HGCs (Highly Gifted Centers). Some kids test in but aren't enrolled by parents who opt to avoid hassle-filled commutes to school. Others go to HCGs but don't stay, returning to a Chinese program eventually. Also, some parents with kids who test into HCGs decide to stay the course with the Chinese to shoot for the Richard Montgomery IB Diploma Program via Herbert Hoover's partial immersion track. Mandarin-speaking students seem to enjoy preferential treatment in admissions at RM, and only around 10% of 8th grade applicants are admitted county wide.

I'd sooner die than live in MoCo!

And we would sooner die than return to YY. There are non-Chinese speaking parents at College Gardens who complain that the program caters to native speakers, that the Chinese taught is "too hard." But there seem to be just as many native Chinese speakers who complain that the English is too hard. Love it or lump it, our immersion program isn't nearly as inclusive as YY's. But then I've got children who speak two dialects of Chinese very well, and read and write above grade level in English. Best of luck to you, OP. Maybe we'll meet in a Rockville program down the road.

So... this means you live in Rockville?!

Oh dear. So genuinely sorry for you.

[Anonymous]

OP here.
I apologize for bringing up an ongoing rivalry. I'm hoping these issues are exaggerated in a forum setting, as they often are. I'm just weighing all my options to see what works best for my family. Regardless, this thread has been very informative and helpful.

So I have one more question then. I have six month old. Does it make sense to try for him to get into preK, then sibling in his older sister?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever, apples and oranges. At least if your kids' Chinese is good for their age (written and spoken) you should have access to one of the MoCo programs eventually, OP. You could probably test in at any point between 1st grade and 6th grades (at Hoover).

One more thing OP might want to know. The teachers' situation at YY is radically different than at College Gardens. When we were there, the YY teachers all seemed to be mainlanders over on one or two-year contracts. Their Chinese was impeccable of course, but they didn't appear to have much of a say in the running of the school. At College Gardens, some are mainlanders but most are ABCs who grew up in dialect-speaking communities (Bay Area, NYC) and learned Mandarin in college, grad school and via working in China. They became certified teachers in MoCo by getting ed credits and field work hours. There's little turnover and teachers have a big say in how the program is designed and run. But you hear strong accents in Mandarin in both groups, mainly from Cantonese speakers (YY had a good many when we were there). Also, there's little emphasis on the immigrant experience at YY and much in the MoCo programs. Immigrant themes are often woven into assignments, e.g. Chinese Exclusion Act issues, what it was like for ancestors to come over on the boat from Asia; how holiday celebrations differ between Hong Kong and Rockville etc. Now, in MS, the kids are being introduced to the concept of lawsuits by Asian civil liberties groups protesting various forms of discrimination, and how Mandarin is crowding out Cantonese and Toisanese in North American Chinatowns etc.

Do the MD Chinese programs end in 5th grade or is it 6th?

What is the language path through 12th?

Immersion at College Gardens or Potomac for K-5th, then partial immersion at Herbert Hoover MS in Potomac 6th-8th. More and more MoCo middle schools teach Mandarin as time goes on, including upper level courses catering to kids coming out of the ES immersion programs, but you have to check with MoCo Public Schools World Languages to see what's being offered. Most of the MoCo high schools teach AP Chinese, but IB Diploma Higher Level classes (two years past AP Chinese) are only offered at Richard Montgomery HS (test-in program with county-wide draw), Bethesda Chevy-Chase HS (open admissions program if MS GPA is B+ or better) and maybe at Rockville HS. All three IB Diploma programs attract native speakers from Rockville area, mostly Cantonese speakers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I apologize for bringing up an ongoing rivalry. I'm hoping these issues are exaggerated in a forum setting, as they often are. I'm just weighing all my options to see what works best for my family. Regardless, this thread has been very informative and helpful.

So I have one more question then. I have six month old. Does it make sense to try for him to get into preK, then sibling in his older sister?

No. YY currently takes new students up to second grade. By the time your 6 month old is old enough and if you get lucky to lottery into prek3 which is the main entering grade at YY, your older child will be too old unless they are entering 2nd grade. Also, there has to be attrition in the rising 2nd grade for your older child to be accepted.

There is no rivalry. That only exists in the mind of heritage mom who moved out of DC and lives in Rockville, Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I apologize for bringing up an ongoing rivalry. I'm hoping these issues are exaggerated in a forum setting, as they often are. I'm just weighing all my options to see what works best for my family. Regardless, this thread has been very informative and helpful.

So I have one more question then. I have six month old. Does it make sense to try for him to get into preK, then sibling in his older sister?

No. YY currently takes new students up to second grade. By the time your 6 month old is old enough and if you get lucky to lottery into prek3 which is the main entering grade at YY, your older child will be too old unless they are entering 2nd grade. Also, there has to be attrition in the rising 2nd grade for your older child to be accepted.

There is no rivalry. That only exists in the mind of heritage mom who moved out of DC and lives in Rockville, Maryland.

Whenever a PP points out that few YY students speak Chinese well, or that DCI is on track to offer IB Diploma lite, because the program doesn't employ ethnic or Chinese-speaking admins, or attract native-speaking students to raise the bar for the others, a bogey woman heritage mom must be responsible. You meet native-speaking parents in the school community, but for reasons that were never clear to me, they don't speak Chinese consistently to their kids, or require them to answer in Chinese. The open houses alone are enough to turn off native-speakers- check one out. Admin presenters work on the assumption that Chinese isn't taught outside YY.

I point out that YY has many other things to recommend it, lovely building, nice playground, location accessible to much of DC, lots going on etc. But it it's Chinese fluency you're after, as well as advanced math and English, MoCo, heritage schools, home school.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for your help, all of you.

My oldest will be entering second grade during my youngers prek start, but that does sound like an unlikely scenario. I probably will not try the YY route unless I decide to stay in D.C. anyway and do the weekend schools. Maybe try for the aforementioned DCI down the road. Although DC schools change quick so who knows. Anyway, we still have to firm up our likely commutes (one of the benefits of DC was the central location in case commutes change, and it's very possible there will be a NOVA commute).

Interesting there are so many Cantonese. I'm used to that being mostly the previous waves of immigration.

[Anonymous]

Also, I just wanted to point out that while I do value my children thinking highly of their heritage, rather than being ashamed of it, and knowing Chinese for academic purposes, my primary reason is that they will be able to easily converse with family back home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I apologize for bringing up an ongoing rivalry. I'm hoping these issues are exaggerated in a forum setting, as they often are. I'm just weighing all my options to see what works best for my family. Regardless, this thread has been very informative and helpful.

So I have one more question then. I have six month old. Does it make sense to try for him to get into preK, then sibling in his older sister?

No. YY currently takes new students up to second grade. By the time your 6 month old is old enough and if you get lucky to lottery into prek3 which is the main entering grade at YY, your older child will be too old unless they are entering 2nd grade. Also, there has to be attrition in the rising 2nd grade for your older child to be accepted.

There is no rivalry. That only exists in the mind of heritage mom who moved out of DC and lives in Rockville, Maryland.

+1000. The heritage poster has been on here bashing YY for years. No one even bothers anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, I just wanted to point out that while I do value my children thinking highly of their heritage, rather than being ashamed of it, and knowing Chinese for academic purposes, my primary reason is that they will be able to easily converse with family back home.

I hear you. We have elderly relatives in Cal and NYC we're close to whose English isn't very good after decades in this country. If you build a strong dialect and literacy foundation at home and in a heritage weekend program, the Mandarin and simplified characters will come easily enough later, wherever you land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I apologize for bringing up an ongoing rivalry. I'm hoping these issues are exaggerated in a forum setting, as they often are. I'm just weighing all my options to see what works best for my family. Regardless, this thread has been very informative and helpful.

So I have one more question then. I have six month old. Does it make sense to try for him to get into preK, then sibling in his older sister?

No. YY currently takes new students up to second grade. By the time your 6 month old is old enough and if you get lucky to lottery into prek3 which is the main entering grade at YY, your older child will be too old unless they are entering 2nd grade. Also, there has to be attrition in the rising 2nd grade for your older child to be accepted.

There is no rivalry. That only exists in the mind of heritage mom who moved out of DC and lives in Rockville, Maryland.

Whenever a PP points out that few YY students speak Chinese well, or that DCI is on track to offer IB Diploma lite, because the program doesn't employ ethnic or Chinese-speaking admins, or attract native-speaking students to raise the bar for the others, a bogey woman heritage mom must be responsible. You meet native-speaking parents in the school community, but for reasons that were never clear to me, they don't speak Chinese consistently to their kids, or require them to answer in Chinese. The open houses alone are enough to turn off native-speakers- check one out. Admin presenters work on the assumption that Chinese isn't taught outside YY.

I point out that YY has many other things to recommend it, lovely building, nice playground, location accessible to much of DC, lots going on etc. But it it's Chinese fluency you're after, as well as advanced math and English, MoCo, heritage schools, home school.

This is common in most ethnic communities. By the time the kids are older and in elementary school, it is a losing battle to try to get them to speak only the parents' native language at home. Parents get tired. Kids want to answer back in English. I know this bc I am one of these kids and not born in the US nor is English my first language.

As for YY being Mandarin lite, it's nothing that a few months studying and living abroad in China can't fix. Going to YY, is a lot more Chinese exposure than heritage school (which by the way, I was forced to attend as a child and HATED).

We are at YY and love the school. The community is very diverse, kind, nurturing, and accepting of all. I for one don't want to raise my kid in an insular ethnic community even if it'll be better for their Chinese. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

^Oh and my child is three grades above grade level in English and excels in Math. We have no complaints about the education he is receiving at YY.

Probably will not continue on to DCI but will be going private either in DC or NYC. Kid is very talented in an area that NYC private schools recruit kids for so like many of the kids in MoCo that leave immersion programs, we'll be doing the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MoCo is only good for Chinese kids - many threads on how white kids are not welcome.

If that's true I can only imagine how unwelcoming it is for non-white, non-Chinese kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MoCo is only good for Chinese kids - many threads on how white kids are not welcome.

If that's true I can only imagine how unwelcoming it is for non-white, non-Chinese kids.

Where are you getting this? You talk to the AA and Latino families at College Gardens, Potomac and Herbert Hoover? The ones we rub shoulders with seem to appreciate the fact that having a good many bilingual children in the program advances the programs' mission. The MoCo Chinese immersion schools aren't insular communities, they're dual immersion programs using the method language acquisition experts commonly recommend that second languages be taught to children. This is the way DCPS teachers Spanish at Oyster. But as we all know, DC politicians, along with charter leaders, admins and parents mostly reject this method because they value racial and socioeconomic diversity more highly than language acquisition. Fine, so different strokes for different folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I apologize for bringing up an ongoing rivalry. I'm hoping these issues are exaggerated in a forum setting, as they often are. I'm just weighing all my options to see what works best for my family. Regardless, this thread has been very informative and helpful.

So I have one more question then. I have six month old. Does it make sense to try for him to get into preK, then sibling in his older sister?

No. YY currently takes new students up to second grade. By the time your 6 month old is old enough and if you get lucky to lottery into prek3 which is the main entering grade at YY, your older child will be too old unless they are entering 2nd grade. Also, there has to be attrition in the rising 2nd grade for your older child to be accepted.

There is no rivalry. That only exists in the mind of heritage mom who moved out of DC and lives in Rockville, Maryland.

Whenever a PP points out that few YY students speak Chinese well, or that DCI is on track to offer IB Diploma lite, because the program doesn't employ ethnic or Chinese-speaking admins, or attract native-speaking students to raise the bar for the others, a bogey woman heritage mom must be responsible. You meet native-speaking parents in the school community, but for reasons that were never clear to me, they don't speak Chinese consistently to their kids, or require them to answer in Chinese. The open houses alone are enough to turn off native-speakers- check one out. Admin presenters work on the assumption that Chinese isn't taught outside YY.

I point out that YY has many other things to recommend it, lovely building, nice playground, location accessible to much of DC, lots going on etc. But it it's Chinese fluency you're after, as well as advanced math and English, MoCo, heritage schools, home school.

This is common in most ethnic communities. By the time the kids are older and in elementary school, it is a losing battle to try to get them to speak only the parents' native language at home. Parents get tired. Kids want to answer back in English. I know this bc I am one of these kids and not born in the US nor is English my first language.

As for YY being Mandarin lite, it's nothing that a few months studying and living abroad in China can't fix. Going to YY, is a lot more Chinese exposure than heritage school (which by the way, I was forced to attend as a child and HATED).

We are at YY and love the school. The community is very diverse, kind, nurturing, and accepting of all. I for one don't want to raise my kid in an insular ethnic community even if it'll be better for their Chinese. No thanks.

Americans have a great variety of experiences with cultural assimilation and language acquisition, and perhaps it's important for us to respect them across the board. We didn't feel accepted at YY; we felt like we were viewed as unfair competition because our kid arrived speaking good Chinese. We don't let our kids answer back in English and don't see ourselves getting tired (because our own families never got tired). I loved my heritage school as a kid, and my children love theirs. I wasn't raised in an insular ethnic community either. But I was jealous of cousins living in a Chinatown because nobody at school called them chink, or pulled on the corners of their eyes to taunt them (very common at my elementary school). When I visited Rockville public high schools and observed higher level IB Chinese classes, it hit me that the YY approach wouldn't get us there, and we wanted to get there.

I'm glad that you're satisfied with YY. OP wants info and insight to help him make a choice. He's getting it, so maybe everybody who's posted can feel good about being on this thoughtful thread.