Chinese Immersion school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another thing YY offers (which no other public school in the DMV does) is Mandarin immersion classes all the way through HS, including the IB Baccalaureate Exam.

OP, we bailed on YY early for College Gardens, now at Herbert Hoover MS in Potomac (partial Mandarin immersion where every student didn't come through College Gardens or Potomac; some were taught at home and in heritage language schools), hoping that DC will test into the Richard Montgomery HS International Baccalaureate Diploma program in Rockville. The program admits around 10% of 8th grade applicants county-wide, but strong Herbert Hoover Chinese students seem to get it. We weren't happy at YY without other immigrant bilingual children, but there were good things about it and most parents seemed to love it.

We live close to the DC-MD line and have close friends with kids at DCI, so we know that IB Diploma studies in their HS will be voluntary. In the strongest suburban IB programs, Richard Montgomery and Washington-Lee HS in Arlington, students are either "in" IB (pursuing the full diploma) or "out" (in AP classes etc.) making for some of the highest IB Diploma pass rates in the world. On a pass rate scale of 24-45 points, the strongest IB Diploma program in the DC public system is currently Banneker HS, with an average points total in the high 20s, the equivalent of around a C-. By contrast, Richard Montgomery's average pass rate is close to 40 points, the equivalent of an A-. Looks to me like DCI's average pass rate will also be in the high 20s for years, possibly the low 30s, because a school system can't do immersion languages very well without recruiting native speakers, and can't do International Baccalaureate studies very well without requiring students to pursue the full diploma (vs. allowing them dabble in it by taking one or more subject exams).

If you're serious about IB Diploma studies in a public system in the Metro area, you need to look to MoCo, Arlington of Fairfax, or possibly a Deal feeder. Chinese studies are coming along at Deal because the teacher is excellent, and the rest of their program, and facilities, are stronger than DCI's. Mandarin has been offered at Wilson for a couple years by another stellar teacher. But, unfortunately, high AP Mandarin scores no longer impress elite colleges as a general rule because it's a fairly easy test. More than 80% of test takers score 5s, by far the highest of any AP exam. Top scores (6s and 7s on a scale of 1-7) on IB "Higher Level" Mandarin separate the sheep from the goats. Good luck.

You seem to have gotten into both YY and College Gardens CI programs. I was thinking it's extremely competitive and I would aim for one, pretty much anticipating I wouldn't get in either. How did you manage to get into both? Also, if you are near the DC boundary, how is transportation for you?

I'm not overly worried about competitiveness to a great extent. I think most of the MoCo high schools in the area will meet my requirements, as well as the DC high schools mentioned. We are also looking at inner NoVa districts as well though.

We got into YY some years ago, after the school had begun, when the lottery wasn't nearly as competitive as I imagine it has become. It's easy to get into College Gardens if your kid speaks decent Chinese (any major dialect) and you're ready to jump in at any point. In the Rockville immersion programs, admins are accustomed to working w/native speakers, so they grasp that your dialect-speaking kid will pick up on the Mandarin fast, even if they don't start until 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade. They're not only willing to accept bilingual kids to replace dropouts, they're eager. The program provides directed dialect transition support (mostly Cantonese-speaking teachers coaching Cantonese-speaking students on Mandarin pronunciation using a mix of the two dialects, as in China itself). MoCo replaces dropouts with bilingual kids at every step of the way, and many non-native speakers don't stay; around a third leave by upper grades. But your kid can't just understand some Chinese to test in; they have to be able to speak rapidly for a good 20 minutes in an interview, with minimal code mixing.

YY actually offers more cultural bells and whistles than College Gardens, because the school is devoted to Chinese immersion while the latter is a small school-within-a-school program. That said, the kids written and spoken Chinese is a good deal better in MoCo. I put this down to involved families being more affluent overall, and native-speaking admins and extended families keeping standards high. Many parents can and do help with HW, and non-native speakers tend to form HW groups (hiring native-speaking tutors) or host au pairs from China. Many families also pay for immersion summer camps, including abroad, and the county helps low-income students attend. We car pool over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP. YY is competitive but it's all luck. No preferences for Chinese speakers, etc (there is a preference for children of the school's staff adn younger siblings of enrolled students.)

You enter a lottery and if your number is good enough you get in. The waiting list is usually 400+ people long and maybe 50-60 get in at PK3 and fewer after that.

The PP got lucky in the YY lottery. No idea how they got in the Mont Co program.

Yeah, that's why I'm not sure I'll worry too much about YY. We already have a kid that will older than that, so I feel the chances move to almost impossible to totally impossible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

We got into YY some years ago, after the school had begun, when the lottery wasn't nearly as competitive as I imagine it has become. It's easy to get into College Gardens if your kid speaks decent Chinese (any major dialect) and you're ready to jump in at any point. In the Rockville immersion programs, admins are accustomed to working w/native speakers, so they grasp that your dialect-speaking kid will pick up on the Mandarin fast, even if they don't start until 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade. They're not only willing to accept bilingual kids to replace dropouts, they're eager. The program provides directed dialect transition support (mostly Cantonese-speaking teachers coaching Cantonese-speaking students on Mandarin pronunciation using a mix of the two dialects, as in China itself). MoCo replaces dropouts with bilingual kids at every step of the way, and many non-native speakers don't stay; around a third leave by upper grades. But your kid can't just understand some Chinese to test in; they have to be able to speak rapidly for a good 20 minutes in an interview, with minimal code mixing.

YY actually offers more cultural bells and whistles than College Gardens, because the school is devoted to Chinese immersion while the latter is a small school-within-a-school program. That said, the kids written and spoken Chinese is a good deal better in MoCo. I put this down to involved families being more affluent overall, and native-speaking admins and extended families keeping standards high. Many parents can and do help with HW, and non-native speakers tend to form HW groups (hiring native-speaking tutors) or host au pairs from China. Many families also pay for immersion summer camps, including abroad, and the county helps low-income students attend. We car pool over.

So College Gardens gives preference based on current speaking ability and family environment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We got into YY some years ago, after the school had begun, when the lottery wasn't nearly as competitive as I imagine it has become. It's easy to get into College Gardens if your kid speaks decent Chinese (any major dialect) and you're ready to jump in at any point. In the Rockville immersion programs, admins are accustomed to working w/native speakers, so they grasp that your dialect-speaking kid will pick up on the Mandarin fast, even if they don't start until 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade. They're not only willing to accept bilingual kids to replace dropouts, they're eager. The program provides directed dialect transition support (mostly Cantonese-speaking teachers coaching Cantonese-speaking students on Mandarin pronunciation using a mix of the two dialects, as in China itself). MoCo replaces dropouts with bilingual kids at every step of the way, and many non-native speakers don't stay; around a third leave by upper grades. But your kid can't just understand some Chinese to test in; they have to be able to speak rapidly for a good 20 minutes in an interview, with minimal code mixing.

YY actually offers more cultural bells and whistles than College Gardens, because the school is devoted to Chinese immersion while the latter is a small school-within-a-school program. That said, the kids written and spoken Chinese is a good deal better in MoCo. I put this down to involved families being more affluent overall, and native-speaking admins and extended families keeping standards high. Many parents can and do help with HW, and non-native speakers tend to form HW groups (hiring native-speaking tutors) or host au pairs from China. Many families also pay for immersion summer camps, including abroad, and the county helps low-income students attend. We car pool over.

So College Gardens gives preference based on current speaking ability and family environment?

Sorry, ignore that. I just read your in-depth response more... in-depth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

We got into YY some years ago, after the school had begun, when the lottery wasn't nearly as competitive as I imagine it has become. It's easy to get into College Gardens if your kid speaks decent Chinese (any major dialect) and you're ready to jump in at any point. In the Rockville immersion programs, admins are accustomed to working w/native speakers, so they grasp that your dialect-speaking kid will pick up on the Mandarin fast, even if they don't start until 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade. They're not only willing to accept bilingual kids to replace dropouts, they're eager. The program provides directed dialect transition support (mostly Cantonese-speaking teachers coaching Cantonese-speaking students on Mandarin pronunciation using a mix of the two dialects, as in China itself). MoCo replaces dropouts with bilingual kids at every step of the way, and many non-native speakers don't stay; around a third leave by upper grades. But your kid can't just understand some Chinese to test in; they have to be able to speak rapidly for a good 20 minutes in an interview, with minimal code mixing.

YY actually offers more cultural bells and whistles than College Gardens, because the school is devoted to Chinese immersion while the latter is a small school-within-a-school program. That said, the kids written and spoken Chinese is a good deal better in MoCo. I put this down to involved families being more affluent overall, and native-speaking admins and extended families keeping standards high. Many parents can and do help with HW, and non-native speakers tend to form HW groups (hiring native-speaking tutors) or host au pairs from China. Many families also pay for immersion summer camps, including abroad, and the county helps low-income students attend. We car pool over.

So College Gardens gives preference based on current speaking ability and family environment?

Sorry, ignore that. I just read your in-depth response more... in-depth

I guess my question is do they give preference in K/1st grade, or the testing is only for 2nd grade or later?

[Anonymous]

It's funny how all my questions about MAryland schools are best answered on the DC forum!

[Anonymous]

Agree with PP. Not sure why my comment pointing out the clear bias from Rockville parents was deleted while we were treated to several posts about MoCo schools in the DC public schools forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pretty clearly, DCI International Baccalaureate Diploma studies will be IB lite on a relative basis. Still a big step forward for city public schools.

What's your basis for this? Links or you made it up.

[Anonymous]

Not the above poster. I can tell you that coming out of DC charter immersion program into a MoCo immersion program was a shock to the system. MoCo hardly seems to care about diversity in these programs - they're all about outputs, about positioning kids with an ear for language acquisition to score high on standardized test down the track (SATs, APs, IB Diploma, whatever). At YY, we were often told that our kid's Chinese was "excellent." Here, he's average and we have to work a lot harder to keep up (eliminating English cartoons for him etc.) Some classmates have two parents who immigrated from the Mainland as adults (unlike us), and really only speak Chinese at home. It's not unusual for kids to attend weekend heritage programs as well at College Gardens. Keeping up is a good challenge for us, but it's very hard work. The program culture is very different than YY's. You want to think hard about how committed you are before jumping in.

[Anonymous]

OP again.
This discussion has been very helpful.
For responses on MoCo schools such as college gardens, feel free to come to my MD thread
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/560590.page
For the Paint Branch discussion I have one in the PG forum
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/561204.page

[Anonymous]

MoCo is only good for Chinese kids - many threads on how white kids are not welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op-

No horse in this race at all, but there is a lot of yu ying haters out there, mostly from Rockville. Honestly I think they're bothered that nonchinese kids are speaking Chinese and spend an awful lot of time trashing YY here. Take their advice with a grain of salt.

+100. This must be the same community responsible for writing the negative crap about DC's Chinatown on Wikipedia. Geese.

+1000 All of this is written in the same voice as the dialect-speaking Yu Ying basher who thinks that schools attended by African americans can't be good enough for "heritage families". Please ignore this person and find out more about Yu Ying for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Whatever, apples and oranges. At least if your kids' Chinese is good for their age (written and spoken) you should have access to one of the MoCo programs eventually, OP. You could probably test in at any point between 1st grade and 6th grades (at Hoover).

One more thing OP might want to know. The teachers' situation at YY is radically different than at College Gardens. When we were there, the YY teachers all seemed to be mainlanders over on one or two-year contracts. Their Chinese was impeccable of course, but they didn't appear to have much of a say in the running of the school. At College Gardens, some are mainlanders but most are ABCs who grew up in dialect-speaking communities (Bay Area, NYC) and learned Mandarin in college, grad school and via working in China. They became certified teachers in MoCo by getting ed credits and field work hours. There's little turnover and teachers have a big say in how the program is designed and run. But you hear strong accents in Mandarin in both groups, mainly from Cantonese speakers (YY had a good many when we were there). Also, there's little emphasis on the immigrant experience at YY and much in the MoCo programs. Immigrant themes are often woven into assignments, e.g. Chinese Exclusion Act issues, what it was like for ancestors to come over on the boat from Asia; how holiday celebrations differ between Hong Kong and Rockville etc. Now, in MS, the kids are being introduced to the concept of lawsuits by Asian civil liberties groups protesting various forms of discrimination, and how Mandarin is crowding out Cantonese and Toisanese in North American Chinatowns etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op-

No horse in this race at all, but there is a lot of yu ying haters out there, mostly from Rockville. Honestly I think they're bothered that nonchinese kids are speaking Chinese and spend an awful lot of time trashing YY here. Take their advice with a grain of salt.

+100. This must be the same community responsible for writing the negative crap about DC's Chinatown on Wikipedia. Geese.

+1000 All of this is written in the same voice as the dialect-speaking Yu Ying basher who thinks that schools attended by African americans can't be good enough for "heritage families". Please ignore this person and find out more about Yu Ying for yourself.

NP--when did the poster you're referring to say anything about AA? His/her beef seems to be that YY has very few native speaking students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever, apples and oranges. At least if your kids' Chinese is good for their age (written and spoken) you should have access to one of the MoCo programs eventually, OP. You could probably test in at any point between 1st grade and 6th grades (at Hoover).

One more thing OP might want to know. The teachers' situation at YY is radically different than at College Gardens. When we were there, the YY teachers all seemed to be mainlanders over on one or two-year contracts. Their Chinese was impeccable of course, but they didn't appear to have much of a say in the running of the school. At College Gardens, some are mainlanders but most are ABCs who grew up in dialect-speaking communities (Bay Area, NYC) and learned Mandarin in college, grad school and via working in China. They became certified teachers in MoCo by getting ed credits and field work hours. There's little turnover and teachers have a big say in how the program is designed and run. But you hear strong accents in Mandarin in both groups, mainly from Cantonese speakers (YY had a good many when we were there). Also, there's little emphasis on the immigrant experience at YY and much in the MoCo programs. Immigrant themes are often woven into assignments, e.g. Chinese Exclusion Act issues, what it was like for ancestors to come over on the boat from Asia; how holiday celebrations differ between Hong Kong and Rockville etc. Now, in MS, the kids are being introduced to the concept of lawsuits by Asian civil liberties groups protesting various forms of discrimination, and how Mandarin is crowding out Cantonese and Toisanese in North American Chinatowns etc.

How many years ago were you at YY?