Middle school feeder data for TJ admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The irony is that there are a good number of kids at TJ who are sweating the college admission process b/c they are not the tippy top of TJ. Even with outstanding SATs, but med. grades, they are told they are unlikely to get into VaTech. Top students at TJ are outright rejected from MIT, Uva. And yet, we know of kids from Edison who get into MIT, Uva, Tech, etc. The kids who are struggling to find a college from TJ would be the top of the top at the lower reputation schools. TJ kids actually presented this picture to the incoming 9th graders telling them that going to TJ would not help them get into a good college (I'm sure 99% of the rising 9th graders dismissed this as not applying to them -- just the others).

I agree that the craziness to get into TJ sounds horrible (as described here). What is it really getting these kids? Seems like a race down a rabbit hole.

I don't know. My kid recently graduated from TJ, and everyone he knows is going to a great college, mostly top 20/25 schools. And the ones who are going to a school a little further down the list have full ride tuition, room and board merit scholarships. Everyone we knew had a number of great acceptances. Did they get into every single school they applied to? Some did, but not all. But there are plenty of good colleges, so they all ended up with good choices.

Going to TJ is not a guarantee of getting accepted at any particular college, and going to your base school doesn't mean you can't get into good colleges. College acceptances are not a pure numbers game, they really depend on the individual. Kids should go to TJ because they want the high school experience they will get there, not as a means to the end of a top college acceptance.

College admission officials know about TJ and they know what grades at TJ mean. They also know that there is no ranking at TJ and that kids with lower grades are asked to leave the school, so even if there were a ranking, it would be not have the meaning and usefulness that a ranking at a regular school would. An admissions official at a college applicant briefing said that a lot of schools use a proxy for class rank when dealing with selective schools like TJ. So they look at grades and standardized test scores and assign a rank that takes into account the selectivity of the high school. They understand that any kid at TJ would be top 10-20% at their regular high school and they take that into account in the decision making process.

And when it comes down to it, top college admissions look at a lot more than just grades and test scores. So no matter where a kid goes to high school, the kid has to have more to offer a college than only academics.

+1

And the little secret that my nerdy kid who is athletic but not outstanding has found their home has been priceless. There may be a subset that do nothing but study, but we've seen plenty of academically focused kids who are shining in other areas because it's a smaller school so they have a shot at participating in activities that they wouldn't necessarily have had the chance to at their base HS.

I think every kid at TJ is academically focused, it's just that some mix in non-academic activities and some stick with academics even in their choices of clubs and extracurriculars. My child who graduated from TJ did a lot of different activities outside of school and, looking back, is very happy that he did. He did activities he liked because he enjoyed them, not to check off boxes for college applications. He's going to a top ten STEM school, so it all worked out for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It really is indefensible to limit TJ's size to roughly 1800 students when so many other schools are now forced to educate at least 2300 students.

TJ really isn't small- it's about the same as a lot of the other FCPS high schools: off the top of my head, McLean, Madison, Langley, Edison are all in the same range for number of students. When you get down to 600-800 students you get the benefits of a small school, but not really at 1800.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is indefensible to limit TJ's size to roughly 1800 students when so many other schools are now forced to educate at least 2300 students.

TJ really isn't small- it's about the same as a lot of the other FCPS high schools: off the top of my head, McLean, Madison, Langley, Edison are all in the same range for number of students. When you get down to 600-800 students you get the benefits of a small school, but not really at 1800.

No, only Lee is smaller. Some of the schools you mention have over 250 kids than TJ. It's just one more way in which the county caters to a very small group of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is indefensible to limit TJ's size to roughly 1800 students when so many other schools are now forced to educate at least 2300 students.

TJ really isn't small- it's about the same as a lot of the other FCPS high schools: off the top of my head, McLean, Madison, Langley, Edison are all in the same range for number of students. When you get down to 600-800 students you get the benefits of a small school, but not really at 1800.

No, only Lee is smaller. Some of the schools you mention have over 250 kids than TJ. It's just one more way in which the county caters to a very small group of students.

Not the county, the state - TJ is a Governor's school and all the Governor's schools have smaller enrollment. For example, Maggie Walker near Richmond has only about 750 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is indefensible to limit TJ's size to roughly 1800 students when so many other schools are now forced to educate at least 2300 students.

TJ really isn't small- it's about the same as a lot of the other FCPS high schools: off the top of my head, McLean, Madison, Langley, Edison are all in the same range for number of students. When you get down to 600-800 students you get the benefits of a small school, but not really at 1800.

No, only Lee is smaller. Some of the schools you mention have over 250 kids than TJ. It's just one more way in which the county caters to a very small group of students.

Not the county, the state - TJ is a Governor's school and all the Governor's schools have smaller enrollment. For example, Maggie Walker near Richmond has only about 750 students.

All the high schools in Richmond are small as it's an urban school district and many students go private. The governor's school designation is irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is indefensible to limit TJ's size to roughly 1800 students when so many other schools are now forced to educate at least 2300 students.

TJ really isn't small- it's about the same as a lot of the other FCPS high schools: off the top of my head, McLean, Madison, Langley, Edison are all in the same range for number of students. When you get down to 600-800 students you get the benefits of a small school, but not really at 1800.

No, only Lee is smaller. Some of the schools you mention have over 250 kids than TJ. It's just one more way in which the county caters to a very small group of students.

Not the county, the state - TJ is a Governor's school and all the Governor's schools have smaller enrollment. For example, Maggie Walker near Richmond has only about 750 students.

All the high schools in Richmond are small as it's an urban school district and many students go private. The governor's school designation is irrelevant.

No, it's not. TJ recieves extra funding from the state of VA as a governor's school. As a trade off, it's academic standards, including things like class size, are approved by the state. TJ is not just another FCPS HS that we happen to let some other jurisdictions send kids too. It is part of the statewide network of Governor's Schools, and, as such, the state has more input.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is indefensible to limit TJ's size to roughly 1800 students when so many other schools are now forced to educate at least 2300 students.

TJ really isn't small- it's about the same as a lot of the other FCPS high schools: off the top of my head, McLean, Madison, Langley, Edison are all in the same range for number of students. When you get down to 600-800 students you get the benefits of a small school, but not really at 1800.

No, only Lee is smaller. Some of the schools you mention have over 250 kids than TJ. It's just one more way in which the county caters to a very small group of students.

Not the county, the state - TJ is a Governor's school and all the Governor's schools have smaller enrollment. For example, Maggie Walker near Richmond has only about 750 students.

All the high schools in Richmond are small as it's an urban school district and many students go private. The governor's school designation is irrelevant.

No, it's not. TJ recieves extra funding from the state of VA as a governor's school. As a trade off, it's academic standards, including things like class size, are approved by the state. TJ is not just another FCPS HS that we happen to let some other jurisdictions send kids too. It is part of the statewide network of Governor's Schools, and, as such, the state has more input.

So what if it's a Governor's School? Show me where the state has capped the total number of students who can attend TJ. Or, if you can't do that, at least learn to spell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is indefensible to limit TJ's size to roughly 1800 students when so many other schools are now forced to educate at least 2300 students.

TJ really isn't small- it's about the same as a lot of the other FCPS high schools: off the top of my head, McLean, Madison, Langley, Edison are all in the same range for number of students. When you get down to 600-800 students you get the benefits of a small school, but not really at 1800.

No, only Lee is smaller. Some of the schools you mention have over 250 kids than TJ. It's just one more way in which the county caters to a very small group of students.

Not the county, the state - TJ is a Governor's school and all the Governor's schools have smaller enrollment. For example, Maggie Walker near Richmond has only about 750 students.

All the high schools in Richmond are small as it's an urban school district and many students go private. The governor's school designation is irrelevant.

No, it's not. TJ recieves extra funding from the state of VA as a governor's school. As a trade off, it's academic standards, including things like class size, are approved by the state. TJ is not just another FCPS HS that we happen to let some other jurisdictions send kids too. It is part of the statewide network of Governor's Schools, and, as such, the state has more input.

So what if it's a Governor's School? Show me where the state has capped the total number of students who can attend TJ. Or, if you can't do that, at least learn to spell.

I know you'll come up with some other complaint re: TJ, but since you asked...before this year the per-pupil funding cap for Governor's schools was 1725, which TJ always exceeded (and it was the only Governor's school which did exceed the attendance cap). But in the last session the State Legislature approved an increase in the cap to 1800 students, an action which only affected TJ and increased its state funding by about $140,000 for the next 2 years.

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/administrators/superintendents_memos/2016/054-16b.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brief antidote from TJ crazy land. Our neighbor's DD has been prepping for TJ (like formally 5 hours each Sunday, plus homework) since 6th grade. Really nice kid. Smart, hardworking, etc. but did not get into TJ. Which so disgraced her family that she was SENT TO INDIA as punishment/ motivation/ attitude adjustment (her attitude is great) the second she finished her last final. Did not get to attend the last two weeks of 8th grade, do all the celebrations, end of year party, say good bye to friends, etc. Will apparently be allowed to come home the day before high school starts, and is expected to have fixed her problems and under no circumstances fail to get into an Ivy.

Umm okay...

Are you sure she isn't just visiting family?

Who said she was Indian? It would be more of a punishment if she was Chinese.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost a fifth of the class comes from Carson. 45 from Longfellow. 37 from Rocky Run. Wow! Then Kilmer and Frost with low 20s. Not bad for LB either.

But I get PPs point about Eastern FFX supporting this school when it doesn't demographically reflect the county.

I don't understand why admitted students don't need to be better distributed around the county. The other counties have limits on how many of their students can be admitted related to their financial support of the school, why shouldn't the different areas of Fairfax County be represented? We all pay taxes, it truly isn't right that one area of the county receives more of the benefits of TJ than other parts of the county. I think there should be limits similar to the limits in the other counties so that students from all over the county can benefit from TJ.

It's merit based admissions. The kids at Carson kill themselves for years to get in. I'm sure kids from other AAP Centers who work equally hard with that goal get in and benefit.

There are limitations on the numbers admitted from Arlington, Prince William, and Loudoun counties. Those kids work hard too, but only a certain number are admitted and that number is related to the financial support their county provides to Fairfax for TJ.

Why can't FCPS be divided up into areas, dollar amount that supports the schools in terms of real estate taxes be taken into account, and then each area be assigned a number of admission slots just as we already do for the other counties? Every homeowner in the county pays taxes (and renters pay through their monthly rental payment). It really does seem a bit unbalanced that large areas of the county send very few students to TJ even though the residents are supporting the school through their taxes to the same extent as those who live in areas who send many more students.

They can only admit those students who apply. The applications are highly skewed toward, Vienna, Chantilly, Herndon ares.

This. Also, beware the law of unintended consequences. Many, many Indian parents buy in a Carson zone for the sole purpose of sending a kid to TJ. Say you cap each school at 25 kids. These parents just move to Twain or Sandberg or where ever admit rates are lowest to give their kids a leg up. So the same kids end up at TJ. On top of that, many parents have said they do not want to send their kid to a TJ crazy middle school. Well, guess what? Your MS is now TJ crazy. And you kid probably has a lower chance of getting in than they do now because there are 60 Indian kids taking Geometry in summer school and test prepping to death and moving heaven and Earth to beat your kid out. If you don't live in TJ crazy, you don't get just how crazy it is. Will an Indian mom rent in the Eastern part of the county for 2 years if it gives their kid a good shot at TJ? That's a no brainier.

Man this shit is crazy. People do crazier shit to get their kids into TJ than to get their kids into Sidwell or Potomac. Really your kid couldn't be successful at Chantilly, McLean or God Forbid, Edison?

The irony is that there are a good number of kids at TJ who are sweating the college admission process b/c they are the tippy top of TJ. Even with outstanding SATs, but med. grades, they are told they are unlikely to get into VaTech. Top students at TJ are outright rejected from MIT, Uva. And yet, we know of kids from Edison who get into MIT, Uva, Tech, etc. The kids who are struggling to find a college from TJ would be the top of the top at the lower reputation schools. TJ kids actually presented this picture to the incoming 9th graders telling them that going to TJ would not help them get into a good college (I'm sure 99% of the rising 9th graders dismissed this as not applying to them -- just the others).

I agree that the craziness to get into TJ sounds horrible (as described here). What is it really getting these kids? Seems like a race down a rabbit hole.

Literally about half the kids at TJ get accepted into U VA. Going to TJ does not hurt your chances of going to U VA. Look it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really is indefensible to limit TJ's size to roughly 1800 students when so many other schools are now forced to educate at least 2300 students.

TJ really isn't small- it's about the same as a lot of the other FCPS high schools: off the top of my head, McLean, Madison, Langley, Edison are all in the same range for number of students. When you get down to 600-800 students you get the benefits of a small school, but not really at 1800.

No, only Lee is smaller. Some of the schools you mention have over 250 kids than TJ. It's just one more way in which the county caters to a very small group of students.

Not the county, the state - TJ is a Governor's school and all the Governor's schools have smaller enrollment. For example, Maggie Walker near Richmond has only about 750 students.

All the high schools in Richmond are small as it's an urban school district and many students go private. The governor's school designation is irrelevant.

No, it's not. TJ recieves extra funding from the state of VA as a governor's school. As a trade off, it's academic standards, including things like class size, are approved by the state. TJ is not just another FCPS HS that we happen to let some other jurisdictions send kids too. It is part of the statewide network of Governor's Schools, and, as such, the state has more input.

So what if it's a Governor's School? Show me where the state has capped the total number of students who can attend TJ. Or, if you can't do that, at least learn to spell.

I know you'll come up with some other complaint re: TJ, but since you asked...before this year the per-pupil funding cap for Governor's schools was 1725, which TJ always exceeded (and it was the only Governor's school which did exceed the attendance cap). But in the last session the State Legislature approved an increase in the cap to 1800 students, an action which only affected TJ and increased its state funding by about $140,000 for the next 2 years.

http://www.doe.virginia.gov/administrators/superintendents_memos/2016/054-16b.pdf

Now everyone knows that the poster you are responding to had a kid that got rejected from TJ. It may not be true, but we will all be thinking it. That poster is just salty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

She has family in India. But she was meant to stay home with her parents and sibling this summer until she failed to get into TJ. She was sent to get her priorities in order, according to Mom.

That is so sad. I imagine the parents think the girl needs to see more of the poverty and heartbreak of living in India to "change her attitude" -- in reality, she never had complete control over whether she got into TJ or not. The parents are living out of fear... and trying to put that on the girl.

Obviously, cannot guess what this mom meant, but here’s a little perspective. What this girl went through is not unlike what any decent student in India goes through to get into professional colleges, and top universities. It’s like living in a pressure cooker. Starts at a very young age, and continues until they’re out of college. I hear kids here complain about their coursework, compare it to what I have seen kids in the family go through in India, and just shake my head. Kids here have no idea how good they have it.

IIT (highly prestigious Indian engineering university system) has something like 10,000 seats. With half a million applicants. That’s an acceptance rate of 2%. Less than half that of the acceptance rates of the most difficult US universities to get into. These kids prep for years to take the entrance exam, and essentially sacrificing everything for a seat there. This is what our kids are up against. Probably what this kid’s mom wants her to get out of her exile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost a fifth of the class comes from Carson. 45 from Longfellow. 37 from Rocky Run. Wow! Then Kilmer and Frost with low 20s. Not bad for LB either.

But I get PPs point about Eastern FFX supporting this school when it doesn't demographically reflect the county.

I don't understand why admitted students don't need to be better distributed around the county. The other counties have limits on how many of their students can be admitted related to their financial support of the school, why shouldn't the different areas of Fairfax County be represented? We all pay taxes, it truly isn't right that one area of the county receives more of the benefits of TJ than other parts of the county. I think there should be limits similar to the limits in the other counties so that students from all over the county can benefit from TJ.

It's merit based admissions. The kids at Carson kill themselves for years to get in. I'm sure kids from other AAP Centers who work equally hard with that goal get in and benefit.

There are limitations on the numbers admitted from Arlington, Prince William, and Loudoun counties. Those kids work hard too, but only a certain number are admitted and that number is related to the financial support their county provides to Fairfax for TJ.

Why can't FCPS be divided up into areas, dollar amount that supports the schools in terms of real estate taxes be taken into account, and then each area be assigned a number of admission slots just as we already do for the other counties? Every homeowner in the county pays taxes (and renters pay through their monthly rental payment). It really does seem a bit unbalanced that large areas of the county send very few students to TJ even though the residents are supporting the school through their taxes to the same extent as those who live in areas who send many more students.

They can only admit those students who apply. The applications are highly skewed toward, Vienna, Chantilly, Herndon ares.

This. Also, beware the law of unintended consequences. Many, many Indian parents buy in a Carson zone for the sole purpose of sending a kid to TJ. Say you cap each school at 25 kids. These parents just move to Twain or Sandberg or where ever admit rates are lowest to give their kids a leg up. So the same kids end up at TJ. On top of that, many parents have said they do not want to send their kid to a TJ crazy middle school. Well, guess what? Your MS is now TJ crazy. And you kid probably has a lower chance of getting in than they do now because there are 60 Indian kids taking Geometry in summer school and test prepping to death and moving heaven and Earth to beat your kid out. If you don't live in TJ crazy, you don't get just how crazy it is. Will an Indian mom rent in the Eastern part of the county for 2 years if it gives their kid a good shot at TJ? That's a no brainier.

Man this shit is crazy. People do crazier shit to get their kids into TJ than to get their kids into Sidwell or Potomac. Really your kid couldn't be successful at Chantilly, McLean or God Forbid, Edison?

The irony is that there are a good number of kids at TJ who are sweating the college admission process b/c they are the tippy top of TJ. Even with outstanding SATs, but med. grades, they are told they are unlikely to get into VaTech. Top students at TJ are outright rejected from MIT, Uva. And yet, we know of kids from Edison who get into MIT, Uva, Tech, etc. The kids who are struggling to find a college from TJ would be the top of the top at the lower reputation schools. TJ kids actually presented this picture to the incoming 9th graders telling them that going to TJ would not help them get into a good college (I'm sure 99% of the rising 9th graders dismissed this as not applying to them -- just the others).

I agree that the craziness to get into TJ sounds horrible (as described here). What is it really getting these kids? Seems like a race down a rabbit hole.

Literally about half the kids at TJ get accepted into U VA. Going to TJ does not hurt your chances of going to U VA. Look it up.

I believe it is a matter of expectations. Ask freshmen parents whether they think their kid will probably get accepted to the state flagship UVA when they graduate, and I think the vast majority would say yes.

And this full ride crap spouted earlier by the TJ fan is totally bogus.

[Anonymous]

"My kid was accepted to TJ without going crazy about it. No tutoring, no prepping, no summer geometry. Extracurriculars were athletic and arts activities. He had an extremely successful career at TJ and is now going to a top ten STEM college. Lots of the heavily prepped and tutored kids ended up back at their assigned high schools during my kid's time at TJ. The committee needs to do a better job of picking kids who are not prepping for TJ and are smart kids who are really good at math and science. Splitting the county into different tax regions for TJ application purposes might just help to reduce the crazy for TJ level".

So glad to hear this. My kis is truly on the fence about attending. Same thing - no prepping, tutoring etc. Extracurriculars are sports (and video gaming). He just happends to be profoundly gifted with a real aptitude for Math and Science. Ne spends no time on homework currently so we are wondering if he will be so slammed at TJ that he will hate it. Seems like your kid was able to stay balanced at TJ and excel. Is that really possible? Still?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"My kid was accepted to TJ without going crazy about it. No tutoring, no prepping, no summer geometry. Extracurriculars were athletic and arts activities. He had an extremely successful career at TJ and is now going to a top ten STEM college. Lots of the heavily prepped and tutored kids ended up back at their assigned high schools during my kid's time at TJ. The committee needs to do a better job of picking kids who are not prepping for TJ and are smart kids who are really good at math and science. Splitting the county into different tax regions for TJ application purposes might just help to reduce the crazy for TJ level".

So glad to hear this. My kis is truly on the fence about attending. Same thing - no prepping, tutoring etc. Extracurriculars are sports (and video gaming). He just happends to be profoundly gifted with a real aptitude for Math and Science. Ne spends no time on homework currently so we are wondering if he will be so slammed at TJ that he will hate it. Seems like your kid was able to stay balanced at TJ and excel. Is that really possible? Still?

Yes. As long as you don't push him to keep up with everyone else.