Middle school feeder data for TJ admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost a fifth of the class comes from Carson. 45 from Longfellow. 37 from Rocky Run. Wow! Then Kilmer and Frost with low 20s. Not bad for LB either.

But I get PPs point about Eastern FFX supporting this school when it doesn't demographically reflect the county.

I don't understand why admitted students don't need to be better distributed around the county. The other counties have limits on how many of their students can be admitted related to their financial support of the school, why shouldn't the different areas of Fairfax County be represented? We all pay taxes, it truly isn't right that one area of the county receives more of the benefits of TJ than other parts of the county. I think there should be limits similar to the limits in the other counties so that students from all over the county can benefit from TJ.

It's merit based admissions. The kids at Carson kill themselves for years to get in. I'm sure kids from other AAP Centers who work equally hard with that goal get in and benefit.

There are limitations on the numbers admitted from Arlington, Prince William, and Loudoun counties. Those kids work hard too, but only a certain number are admitted and that number is related to the financial support their county provides to Fairfax for TJ.

Why can't FCPS be divided up into areas, dollar amount that supports the schools in terms of real estate taxes be taken into account, and then each area be assigned a number of admission slots just as we already do for the other counties? Every homeowner in the county pays taxes (and renters pay through their monthly rental payment). It really does seem a bit unbalanced that large areas of the county send very few students to TJ even though the residents are supporting the school through their taxes to the same extent as those who live in areas who send many more students.

They can only admit those students who apply. The applications are highly skewed toward, Vienna, Chantilly, Herndon ares.

This. Also, beware the law of unintended consequences. Many, many Indian parents buy in a Carson zone for the sole purpose of sending a kid to TJ. Say you cap each school at 25 kids. These parents just move to Twain or Sandberg or where ever admit rates are lowest to give their kids a leg up. So the same kids end up at TJ. On top of that, many parents have said they do not want to send their kid to a TJ crazy middle school. Well, guess what? Your MS is now TJ crazy. And you kid probably has a lower chance of getting in than they do now because there are 60 Indian kids taking Geometry in summer school and test prepping to death and moving heaven and Earth to beat your kid out. If you don't live in TJ crazy, you don't get just how crazy it is. Will an Indian mom rent in the Eastern part of the county for 2 years if it gives their kid a good shot at TJ? That's a no brainier.

Man this shit is crazy. People do crazier shit to get their kids into TJ than to get their kids into Sidwell or Potomac. Really your kid couldn't be successful at Chantilly, McLean or God Forbid, Edison?

The irony is that there are a good number of kids at TJ who are sweating the college admission process b/c they are the tippy top of TJ. Even with outstanding SATs, but med. grades, they are told they are unlikely to get into VaTech. Top students at TJ are outright rejected from MIT, Uva. And yet, we know of kids from Edison who get into MIT, Uva, Tech, etc. The kids who are struggling to find a college from TJ would be the top of the top at the lower reputation schools. TJ kids actually presented this picture to the incoming 9th graders telling them that going to TJ would not help them get into a good college (I'm sure 99% of the rising 9th graders dismissed this as not applying to them -- just the others).

I agree that the craziness to get into TJ sounds horrible (as described here). What is it really getting these kids? Seems like a race down a rabbit hole.

[Anonymous]

correction:

The irony is that there are a good number of kids at TJ who are sweating the college admission process b/c they are NOT the tippy top of TJ.

[Anonymous]

This. Also, beware the law of unintended consequences. Many, many Indian parents buy in a Carson zone for the sole purpose of sending a kid to TJ. Say you cap each school at 25 kids. These parents just move to Twain or Sandberg or where ever admit rates are lowest to give their kids a leg up. So the same kids end up at TJ. On top of that, many parents have said they do not want to send their kid to a TJ crazy middle school. Well, guess what? Your MS is now TJ crazy. And you kid probably has a lower chance of getting in than they do now because there are 60 Indian kids taking Geometry in summer school and test prepping to death and moving heaven and Earth to beat your kid out. If you don't live in TJ crazy, you don't get just how crazy it is. Will an Indian mom rent in the Eastern part of the county for 2 years if it gives their kid a good shot at TJ? That's a no brainier.

My kid was accepted to TJ without going crazy about it. No tutoring, no prepping, no summer geometry. Extracurriculars were athletic and arts activities. He had an extremely successful career at TJ and is now going to a top ten STEM college. Lots of the heavily prepped and tutored kids ended up back at their assigned high schools during my kid's time at TJ. The committee needs to do a better job of picking kids who are not prepping for TJ and are smart kids who are really good at math and science. Splitting the county into different tax regions for TJ application purposes might just help to reduce the crazy for TJ level.


I feel that both PPs have points. I think that splitting TJ feeders into districts could bring diversity for a while until TJ crazy parents game the system. What is sad to me is that private school have more diversity of one of the most diverse places in the US best school. I don't say this to punish Asian kids success.

How do Blair and RM IB stack up diversity wise?

[Anonymous]

Carson zip code is not 20170. It is 20171, an area also known as Oak Hill. House prices are expensive in 20171 compared to 20170.

Even in Carson, some top kids either do not apply to TJ or do not go to TJ even if they get accepted.

Carson admin and teachers are excellent and the student peer group is great. It is competitive but not every one is TJ crazy. The base HS schools from Carson are good too.

TJ admissions based on split county regions will never work as interested families will move around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Carson zip code is not 20170. It is 20171, an area also known as Oak Hill. House prices are expensive in 20171 compared to 20170.

Even in Carson, some top kids either do not apply to TJ or do not go to TJ even if they get accepted.

Carson admin and teachers are excellent and the student peer group is great. It is competitive but not every one is TJ crazy. The base HS schools from Carson are good too.

TJ admissions based on split county regions will never work as interested families will move around.

Carson is a huge AAP Center, and pulls from multiple zips, including Oakton, Chantilly, Herndon, Reston and Fairfax. Kids leaving are zoned Chantillly, Westfield, Oakton & South Lakes. Something like 11-12 ESs feed Carson, at least for AAP. And pieces of 20171 (like Franklin Farms) have Franklin as a base school, but Carson as AAP. But agree with the premise that 20170 is not the housing stock-- that's Herndon MS. Since AAP kids tend to be more affluent, the school is affluent. Not Langley affluent, but low FARMS rate. Lots of SFH. It is hard to buy into Carson AAP at less than 600k, and there are definately million dollar homes feeding in.

And that it isn't luck or that Carson has so many TJ admits. Parents move onto Carson because it is the top TJ feeder and they want to send kids to TJ. And not let's take the test and see what happens interested, like the rest of the county. And it isn't magical. This is years of blood, sweat and tears. You can probably find normal at Carson, but the savvy parents who,want normal just buy into Franklin/ do LLIV Fanklin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Carson zip code is not 20170. It is 20171, an area also known as Oak Hill. House prices are expensive in 20171 compared to 20170.

Even in Carson, some top kids either do not apply to TJ or do not go to TJ even if they get accepted.

Carson admin and teachers are excellent and the student peer group is great. It is competitive but not every one is TJ crazy. The base HS schools from Carson are good too.

TJ admissions based on split county regions will never work as interested families will move around.

? That's where the school is located, not where the students live. Sheesh. My kid was bussed at least 10 miles to Carson, 45 minute ride. I'm sure multiple zip codes feed into that place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brief antidote from TJ crazy land. Our neighbor's DD has been prepping for TJ (like formally 5 hours each Sunday, plus homework) since 6th grade. Really nice kid. Smart, hardworking, etc. but did not get into TJ. Which so disgraced her family that she was SENT TO INDIA as punishment/ motivation/ attitude adjustment (her attitude is great) the second she finished her last final. Did not get to attend the last two weeks of 8th grade, do all the celebrations, end of year party, say good bye to friends, etc. Will apparently be allowed to come home the day before high school starts, and is expected to have fixed her problems and under no circumstances fail to get into an Ivy.

Umm okay...

Are you sure she isn't just visiting family?

She has family in India. But she was meant to stay home with her parents and sibling this summer until she failed to get into TJ. She was sent to get her priorities in order, according to Mom.

That is so sad. I imagine the parents think the girl needs to see more of the poverty and heartbreak of living in India to "change her attitude" -- in reality, she never had complete control over whether she got into TJ or not. The parents are living out of fear... and trying to put that on the girl.

[Anonymous]

The irony is that there are a good number of kids at TJ who are sweating the college admission process b/c they are not the tippy top of TJ. Even with outstanding SATs, but med. grades, they are told they are unlikely to get into VaTech. Top students at TJ are outright rejected from MIT, Uva. And yet, we know of kids from Edison who get into MIT, Uva, Tech, etc. The kids who are struggling to find a college from TJ would be the top of the top at the lower reputation schools. TJ kids actually presented this picture to the incoming 9th graders telling them that going to TJ would not help them get into a good college (I'm sure 99% of the rising 9th graders dismissed this as not applying to them -- just the others).

I agree that the craziness to get into TJ sounds horrible (as described here). What is it really getting these kids? Seems like a race down a rabbit hole.

I don't know. My kid recently graduated from TJ, and everyone he knows is going to a great college, mostly top 20/25 schools. And the ones who are going to a school a little further down the list have full ride tuition, room and board merit scholarships. Everyone we knew had a number of great acceptances. Did they get into every single school they applied to? Some did, but not all. But there are plenty of good colleges, so they all ended up with good choices.

Going to TJ is not a guarantee of getting accepted at any particular college, and going to your base school doesn't mean you can't get into good colleges. College acceptances are not a pure numbers game, they really depend on the individual. Kids should go to TJ because they want the high school experience they will get there, not as a means to the end of a top college acceptance.

College admission officials know about TJ and they know what grades at TJ mean. They also know that there is no ranking at TJ and that kids with lower grades are asked to leave the school, so even if there were a ranking, it would be not have the meaning and usefulness that a ranking at a regular school would. An admissions official at a college applicant briefing said that a lot of schools use a proxy for class rank when dealing with selective schools like TJ. So they look at grades and standardized test scores and assign a rank that takes into account the selectivity of the high school. They understand that any kid at TJ would be top 10-20% at their regular high school and they take that into account in the decision making process.

And when it comes down to it, top college admissions look at a lot more than just grades and test scores. So no matter where a kid goes to high school, the kid has to have more to offer a college than only academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The irony is that there are a good number of kids at TJ who are sweating the college admission process b/c they are not the tippy top of TJ. Even with outstanding SATs, but med. grades, they are told they are unlikely to get into VaTech. Top students at TJ are outright rejected from MIT, Uva. And yet, we know of kids from Edison who get into MIT, Uva, Tech, etc. The kids who are struggling to find a college from TJ would be the top of the top at the lower reputation schools. TJ kids actually presented this picture to the incoming 9th graders telling them that going to TJ would not help them get into a good college (I'm sure 99% of the rising 9th graders dismissed this as not applying to them -- just the others).

I agree that the craziness to get into TJ sounds horrible (as described here). What is it really getting these kids? Seems like a race down a rabbit hole.

I don't know. My kid recently graduated from TJ, and everyone he knows is going to a great college, mostly top 20/25 schools. And the ones who are going to a school a little further down the list have full ride tuition, room and board merit scholarships. Everyone we knew had a number of great acceptances. Did they get into every single school they applied to? Some did, but not all. But there are plenty of good colleges, so they all ended up with good choices.

Going to TJ is not a guarantee of getting accepted at any particular college, and going to your base school doesn't mean you can't get into good colleges. College acceptances are not a pure numbers game, they really depend on the individual. Kids should go to TJ because they want the high school experience they will get there, not as a means to the end of a top college acceptance.

College admission officials know about TJ and they know what grades at TJ mean. They also know that there is no ranking at TJ and that kids with lower grades are asked to leave the school, so even if there were a ranking, it would be not have the meaning and usefulness that a ranking at a regular school would. An admissions official at a college applicant briefing said that a lot of schools use a proxy for class rank when dealing with selective schools like TJ. So they look at grades and standardized test scores and assign a rank that takes into account the selectivity of the high school. They understand that any kid at TJ would be top 10-20% at their regular high school and they take that into account in the decision making process.

And when it comes down to it, top college admissions look at a lot more than just grades and test scores. So no matter where a kid goes to high school, the kid has to have more to offer a college than only academics.

At what point would a kid be asked to leave? (I.e., GPA below X.X)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
At what point would a kid be asked to leave? (I.e., GPA below X.X)

https://www.tjhsst.edu/abouttj/docs/B-average-policy-R3355.pdf

IX. ACADEMIC STANDARDS AND PROCEDURES
A. Academic Standards
An enrolled student shall maintain a cumulative B-average at the end of each school
year in order to remain a student in good standing at TJHSST.
B. Academic Standards Procedure
1. For any student who is experiencing academic difficulty during the school year,
TJHSST teachers and staff members will develop and document intervention
strategies to help the student be academically successful at TJHSST.
2. At the end of the school year, if the student fails to maintain a cumulative B
average (unweighted 3.0 grade point average), the student will be evaluated by
the director of student services, the principal, and the cluster assistant
superintendent for possible return to the student’s home, or base, high school.
Extenuating or exceptional circumstances may be considered in making this
determination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
At what point would a kid be asked to leave? (I.e., GPA below X.X)

https://www.tjhsst.edu/abouttj/docs/B-average-policy-R3355.pdf

IX. ACADEMIC STANDARDS AND PROCEDURES
A. Academic Standards
An enrolled student shall maintain a cumulative B-average at the end of each school
year in order to remain a student in good standing at TJHSST.
B. Academic Standards Procedure
1. For any student who is experiencing academic difficulty during the school year,
TJHSST teachers and staff members will develop and document intervention
strategies to help the student be academically successful at TJHSST.
2. At the end of the school year, if the student fails to maintain a cumulative B
average (unweighted 3.0 grade point average), the student will be evaluated by
the director of student services, the principal, and the cluster assistant
superintendent for possible return to the student’s home, or base, high school.
Extenuating or exceptional circumstances may be considered in making this
determination.

Thank you for the information.

[Anonymous]

Out of 23 applicants, 13 were accepted, I think proportionately Nysmith has the best stat among all schools!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Out of 23 applicants, 13 were accepted, I think proportionately Nysmith has the best stat among all schools!!

got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The irony is that there are a good number of kids at TJ who are sweating the college admission process b/c they are not the tippy top of TJ. Even with outstanding SATs, but med. grades, they are told they are unlikely to get into VaTech. Top students at TJ are outright rejected from MIT, Uva. And yet, we know of kids from Edison who get into MIT, Uva, Tech, etc. The kids who are struggling to find a college from TJ would be the top of the top at the lower reputation schools. TJ kids actually presented this picture to the incoming 9th graders telling them that going to TJ would not help them get into a good college (I'm sure 99% of the rising 9th graders dismissed this as not applying to them -- just the others).

I agree that the craziness to get into TJ sounds horrible (as described here). What is it really getting these kids? Seems like a race down a rabbit hole.

I don't know. My kid recently graduated from TJ, and everyone he knows is going to a great college, mostly top 20/25 schools. And the ones who are going to a school a little further down the list have full ride tuition, room and board merit scholarships. Everyone we knew had a number of great acceptances. Did they get into every single school they applied to? Some did, but not all. But there are plenty of good colleges, so they all ended up with good choices.

Going to TJ is not a guarantee of getting accepted at any particular college, and going to your base school doesn't mean you can't get into good colleges. College acceptances are not a pure numbers game, they really depend on the individual. Kids should go to TJ because they want the high school experience they will get there, not as a means to the end of a top college acceptance.

College admission officials know about TJ and they know what grades at TJ mean. They also know that there is no ranking at TJ and that kids with lower grades are asked to leave the school, so even if there were a ranking, it would be not have the meaning and usefulness that a ranking at a regular school would. An admissions official at a college applicant briefing said that a lot of schools use a proxy for class rank when dealing with selective schools like TJ. So they look at grades and standardized test scores and assign a rank that takes into account the selectivity of the high school. They understand that any kid at TJ would be top 10-20% at their regular high school and they take that into account in the decision making process.

And when it comes down to it, top college admissions look at a lot more than just grades and test scores. So no matter where a kid goes to high school, the kid has to have more to offer a college than only academics.

+1

And the little secret that my nerdy kid who is athletic but not outstanding has found their home has been priceless. There may be a subset that do nothing but study, but we've seen plenty of academically focused kids who are shining in other areas because it's a smaller school so they have a shot at participating in activities that they wouldn't necessarily have had the chance to at their base HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The irony is that there are a good number of kids at TJ who are sweating the college admission process b/c they are not the tippy top of TJ. Even with outstanding SATs, but med. grades, they are told they are unlikely to get into VaTech. Top students at TJ are outright rejected from MIT, Uva. And yet, we know of kids from Edison who get into MIT, Uva, Tech, etc. The kids who are struggling to find a college from TJ would be the top of the top at the lower reputation schools. TJ kids actually presented this picture to the incoming 9th graders telling them that going to TJ would not help them get into a good college (I'm sure 99% of the rising 9th graders dismissed this as not applying to them -- just the others).

I agree that the craziness to get into TJ sounds horrible (as described here). What is it really getting these kids? Seems like a race down a rabbit hole.

I don't know. My kid recently graduated from TJ, and everyone he knows is going to a great college, mostly top 20/25 schools. And the ones who are going to a school a little further down the list have full ride tuition, room and board merit scholarships. Everyone we knew had a number of great acceptances. Did they get into every single school they applied to? Some did, but not all. But there are plenty of good colleges, so they all ended up with good choices.

Going to TJ is not a guarantee of getting accepted at any particular college, and going to your base school doesn't mean you can't get into good colleges. College acceptances are not a pure numbers game, they really depend on the individual. Kids should go to TJ because they want the high school experience they will get there, not as a means to the end of a top college acceptance.

College admission officials know about TJ and they know what grades at TJ mean. They also know that there is no ranking at TJ and that kids with lower grades are asked to leave the school, so even if there were a ranking, it would be not have the meaning and usefulness that a ranking at a regular school would. An admissions official at a college applicant briefing said that a lot of schools use a proxy for class rank when dealing with selective schools like TJ. So they look at grades and standardized test scores and assign a rank that takes into account the selectivity of the high school. They understand that any kid at TJ would be top 10-20% at their regular high school and they take that into account in the decision making process.

And when it comes down to it, top college admissions look at a lot more than just grades and test scores. So no matter where a kid goes to high school, the kid has to have more to offer a college than only academics.

+1

And the little secret that my nerdy kid who is athletic but not outstanding has found their home has been priceless. There may be a subset that do nothing but study, but we've seen plenty of academically focused kids who are shining in other areas because it's a smaller school so they have a shot at participating in activities that they wouldn't necessarily have had the chance to at their base HS.

It really is indefensible to limit TJ's size to roughly 1800 students when so many other schools are now forced to educate at least 2300 students.