APS Families--Pls email county and school boards by Tues. 5/24!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, at least when I get old I'll have a big park to sit in and think about what we could have possibly done to prevent APS from going down the toilet.

More likely you will have a huge affordable housing complex you can walk through. In Arlington, the affordable housing lobby is stronger than the park boosters.

Sad but true

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is ironic, if true, that they are thinking of using the Carlin Springs parcel for affordable housing. The whole point of affordable housing is to provide an opportunity for middle class families who otherwise couldn't afford to live here. So ostensibly it's to remedy socioeconomic stratification on some level. But if the public schools are no longer considered a viable option by most people, we'll have an urban style school system with the uber rich, who can afford private school, and people at the other end of the spectrum who may not have many options. Without viable, quality public schools, a whole lot of people in the middle will view Arlington as unaffordable anyway, regardless of how much affordable housing we have.

I support affordable housing, in principle, but not how it is implemented in Arlington. It is overwhelming NOT occupied by teachers, police, firefighters, etc. who struggle to live in the county where they work. Instead, it is mostly populated by families who make less than 25% of median income (think servers, wait staff, manual laborers, etc., which is still a-ok in my book) that DON'T EVEN WORK IN THE COUNTY. Why are we putting so many resources to help families who a) don't currently live here, and b) don't even work here? It's crazy.

[Anonymous]

For the person who was asking, here is the text of the discussion from the previous thread discussing building on the Carlin Springs property:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke with a school board member.

This is what I took away from the conversation:

1) There is no land to build a new high school. The VA Hospital parcel a no go because too much traffic on Carlin Springs.

2) This school board member would like to see the Ed Center transformed into an annex for W-L.

3) Additions a definite possibility. Also a possibility to grow HB.

4) High school will not "look" like it has traditionally looked. Meaning to expect distance learning and staggered schedules.

Personally, I do not want my children going to high school if in Arlington if distance learning and staggered schedules, overcrowded buildings, etc. is what it's going to be. We will be going private.

I don't understand this part. Is it the School Board member's opinion that the site is unsuitable for a high school because of traffic, or does the member believe that the County will not cede the land to APS because the County believes there is too much traffic to accommodate a school there?

I don't know the answer to that. Sorry.

To my question about who is citing traffic as the prohibitive factor?

I asked because sometimes it seems to me like the SB is effectively saying that the CB has left them with no good options and here are the results; it is out of our hands.

Second, I was tangentially involved in the possible HB to Reed School situation a couple of years ago, and the SB and staff expressly said - many times -- that traffic simply was not a consideration, because there is traffic everywhere. It was not relevant that the site was located on Washington Boulevard. This seems totally contrary. W-L is on Washington Blvd, the new Stratford is on Old Dominion, the new HB is in the heart of Rosslyn. We have schools in high-traffic locations all over the place.

And about traffic:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that the traffic excuse is BS. APS repeatedly states that traffic doesn't matter. Was this a new board member?

Nope.

That prior thread was over here: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/270/555357.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is ironic, if true, that they are thinking of using the Carlin Springs parcel for affordable housing. The whole point of affordable housing is to provide an opportunity for middle class families who otherwise couldn't afford to live here. So ostensibly it's to remedy socioeconomic stratification on some level. But if the public schools are no longer considered a viable option by most people, we'll have an urban style school system with the uber rich, who can afford private school, and people at the other end of the spectrum who may not have many options. Without viable, quality public schools, a whole lot of people in the middle will view Arlington as unaffordable anyway, regardless of how much affordable housing we have.

I support affordable housing, in principle, but not how it is implemented in Arlington. It is overwhelming NOT occupied by teachers, police, firefighters, etc. who struggle to live in the county where they work. Instead, it is mostly populated by families who make less than 25% of median income (think servers, wait staff, manual laborers, etc., which is still a-ok in my book) that DON'T EVEN WORK IN THE COUNTY. Why are we putting so many resources to help families who a) don't currently live here, and b) don't even work here? It's crazy.

But they have activists who speak for them. I am for making the county liveable for everyone, but this level is too far. We need to fix the schools and serve the people already living here before we talk about concentrating groups of lower income folks who would be bettered served in mix income housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is ironic, if true, that they are thinking of using the Carlin Springs parcel for affordable housing. The whole point of affordable housing is to provide an opportunity for middle class families who otherwise couldn't afford to live here. So ostensibly it's to remedy socioeconomic stratification on some level. But if the public schools are no longer considered a viable option by most people, we'll have an urban style school system with the uber rich, who can afford private school, and people at the other end of the spectrum who may not have many options. Without viable, quality public schools, a whole lot of people in the middle will view Arlington as unaffordable anyway, regardless of how much affordable housing we have.

I support affordable housing, in principle, but not how it is implemented in Arlington. It is overwhelming NOT occupied by teachers, police, firefighters, etc. who struggle to live in the county where they work. Instead, it is mostly populated by families who make less than 25% of median income (think servers, wait staff, manual laborers, etc., which is still a-ok in my book) that DON'T EVEN WORK IN THE COUNTY. Why are we putting so many resources to help families who a) don't currently live here, and b) don't even work here? It's crazy.

But they have activists who speak for them. I am for making the county liveable for everyone, but this level is too far. We need to fix the schools and serve the people already living here before we talk about concentrating groups of lower income folks who would be bettered served in mix income housing.

Right! Our county needs to focus on the residents that are already here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is ironic, if true, that they are thinking of using the Carlin Springs parcel for affordable housing. The whole point of affordable housing is to provide an opportunity for middle class families who otherwise couldn't afford to live here. So ostensibly it's to remedy socioeconomic stratification on some level. But if the public schools are no longer considered a viable option by most people, we'll have an urban style school system with the uber rich, who can afford private school, and people at the other end of the spectrum who may not have many options. Without viable, quality public schools, a whole lot of people in the middle will view Arlington as unaffordable anyway, regardless of how much affordable housing we have.

I support affordable housing, in principle, but not how it is implemented in Arlington. It is overwhelming NOT occupied by teachers, police, firefighters, etc. who struggle to live in the county where they work. Instead, it is mostly populated by families who make less than 25% of median income (think servers, wait staff, manual laborers, etc., which is still a-ok in my book) that DON'T EVEN WORK IN THE COUNTY. Why are we putting so many resources to help families who a) don't currently live here, and b) don't even work here? It's crazy.

Yeah this seems nuts to me, too. But is it, really? I don't think you can really tie one to the other. Like, if you lose your Arlington job you have to move? Cause that seems nuts, too. And we don't think it's crazy for people in SFHs not to work in Arlington. If the people in affordable housing are going to work in DC, that makes total sense to me and I'm down with that. Everyone has the right to a shorter commute and high(er) quality schools. For me, the sticker is if they're working even further outside in Fairfax, because hey, just live in Fairfax.

[Anonymous]

Alright, I've emailed everyone on the county board and the school board. What's next? Who's going to be our Norma Rae?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is ironic, if true, that they are thinking of using the Carlin Springs parcel for affordable housing. The whole point of affordable housing is to provide an opportunity for middle class families who otherwise couldn't afford to live here. So ostensibly it's to remedy socioeconomic stratification on some level. But if the public schools are no longer considered a viable option by most people, we'll have an urban style school system with the uber rich, who can afford private school, and people at the other end of the spectrum who may not have many options. Without viable, quality public schools, a whole lot of people in the middle will view Arlington as unaffordable anyway, regardless of how much affordable housing we have.

I support affordable housing, in principle, but not how it is implemented in Arlington. It is overwhelming NOT occupied by teachers, police, firefighters, etc. who struggle to live in the county where they work. Instead, it is mostly populated by families who make less than 25% of median income (think servers, wait staff, manual laborers, etc., which is still a-ok in my book) that DON'T EVEN WORK IN THE COUNTY. Why are we putting so many resources to help families who a) don't currently live here, and b) don't even work here? It's crazy.

Yeah this seems nuts to me, too. But is it, really? I don't think you can really tie one to the other. Like, if you lose your Arlington job you have to move? Cause that seems nuts, too. And we don't think it's crazy for people in SFHs not to work in Arlington. If the people in affordable housing are going to work in DC, that makes total sense to me and I'm down with that. Everyone has the right to a shorter commute and high(er) quality schools. For me, the sticker is if they're working even further outside in Fairfax, because hey, just live in Fairfax.

Totally agree with you. But we can't have higher quality schools if we don't fix these problems. Maybe Arlington needs to step back and plan this out, where all the players talk to each other? Otherwise, it looks like to the casual observer that affordable housing is stuffing in more people while there's hardly space for the ones that are already here. I sort of hope that the people who already live in Arlington, perhaps in the market rate affordable places that are going away get first pick of new complexes, so that we serve the people here. I don't think people should be forced out of the county, but I don't think this looks well planned at all. And affordable housing is not what Carlin Springs needs - that's just concentrating poverty if you ask me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is ironic, if true, that they are thinking of using the Carlin Springs parcel for affordable housing. The whole point of affordable housing is to provide an opportunity for middle class families who otherwise couldn't afford to live here. So ostensibly it's to remedy socioeconomic stratification on some level. But if the public schools are no longer considered a viable option by most people, we'll have an urban style school system with the uber rich, who can afford private school, and people at the other end of the spectrum who may not have many options. Without viable, quality public schools, a whole lot of people in the middle will view Arlington as unaffordable anyway, regardless of how much affordable housing we have.

I support affordable housing, in principle, but not how it is implemented in Arlington. It is overwhelming NOT occupied by teachers, police, firefighters, etc. who struggle to live in the county where they work. Instead, it is mostly populated by families who make less than 25% of median income (think servers, wait staff, manual laborers, etc., which is still a-ok in my book) that DON'T EVEN WORK IN THE COUNTY. Why are we putting so many resources to help families who a) don't currently live here, and b) don't even work here? It's crazy.

Well, I don't know. I'm not as in the know about affordable housing and who uses it. Is the point to provide a benefit for our teachers and firefighters? Or to preserve some level of socioeconomic diversity within the county?

My only point was that regardless of who lives in affordable housing -- waitstaff or firefighters, current residents or not -- if people don't believe the public schools are a viable choice, like if their kid is going to school in the evening and taking classes online, a whole lot of families will effectively be priced out anyway. Whether you make $75k or $150k or $200k, you're probably not going to be able to afford private school for 1+ kids. And you probably can afford to move to Fairfax county or another jurisdiction that may have more attractive options, even if it means a longer commute. Of course it is possible that people will move out in exactly the right amount to balance enrollment and make this whole crisis go away. But it seems more likely to me that most people with options will decline to take the chance. My point is just that if the county is investing in affordable housing in the name of economic diversity, it seems contradictory to adopt school policies that effectively price out a whole lot of middle to upper middle class people anyway.

[Anonymous]

You people really don't understand who is living in affordable housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You people really don't understand who is living in affordable housing.

Can you elaborate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people really don't understand who is living in affordable housing.

Can you elaborate?

I thought it was designed for people making 60-80% of the median income in Arlington, but in reality, it's people who make less than that, packed in like sardines because they want a good commute too.

~not that poster~

[Anonymous]

Oh god. These staggered schedules were attempted in Chicago and it sounds like a total nightmare.

Staggered school schedules: Crowding forces high schools to adopt early -- very early -- starting times
March 25, 2009|By Joel Hood, TRIBUNE REPORTER

Whatever Ben Johnson may have thought his senior year of high school would be like, it probably didn't include waking up every weekday at 5:30 a.m.

Little did he know he would need coffee or a liter of Mountain Dew to stay awake in first-period calculus or that he would have to retreat home after school to nap for several hours.

Such is life, though, for nearly 800 juniors and seniors at Lockport Township High School, where crowding has forced school officials to offer classes beginning at 6:50 a.m. for those students brave -- and caffeinated enough -- to take the challenge. Next year, all juniors and seniors will start school at 6:44 a.m., a fate sealed when Lockport voters rejected a fifth proposal last month to build a new high school.

Already, the change is creating logistical nightmares for officials, teachers, coaches and parent volunteers, who must juggle classes and times for the school's 4,000 students spread over two campuses. Under the current plan, seniors can complete their school days by 11:45 a.m., juniors by 1:44 p.m., while freshmen and sophomores won't be out of class until 3:44 p.m. Assemblies have been abandoned, and after-school activities limited.

More here: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2009-03-25/news/0903230438_1_chicago-public-schools-lunchtimes-evening-meetings (reposted link from the earlier thread)

But hey, they did it in Chicago, so it must be an accepted strategy we could use for Arlington! THIS IS INSANE!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You people really don't understand who is living in affordable housing.

Can you elaborate?

I thought it was designed for people making 60-80% of the median income in Arlington, but in reality, it's people who make less than that, packed in like sardines because they want a good commute too.

~not that poster~

I would challenge anyone to point to actual data about who is living in the committed affordable units in Arlington. That is not where you find people packed in like sardines-- that is in the 'market' affordable units.
Also- the county is not creating new affordable housing so as to bring more people into the county- rather they are replacing lost market affordable housing.

And- affordable housing is at several different income levels. Some are at 60% of the median income, some are at 80% etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah this seems nuts to me, too. But is it, really? I don't think you can really tie one to the other. Like, if you lose your Arlington job you have to move? Cause that seems nuts, too. And we don't think it's crazy for people in SFHs not to work in Arlington. If the people in affordable housing are going to work in DC, that makes total sense to me and I'm down with that. Everyone has the right to a shorter commute and high(er) quality schools. For me, the sticker is if they're working even further outside in Fairfax, because hey, just live in Fairfax.

Wait, what!? So, I live in south Arlington but I work in Tysons. My commute would be a lot shorter if someone would subsidize a $1.5M home for me in McLean. Isn't it my right?

This is what's wrong with the affordable housing argument. There is no right to live in a particular neighborhood or locale. I turned down in a job in Bethesda because the commute would have been soul sucking. Should I instead have looked for my handout to live in Chevy Chase?

Off topic, and better for the political forum.