Jackson/Oakton -- non-AAP experience and overcrowding?

[Anonymous]

Ok. 790/8 grades ( we have head start)= 98.75 students a grade. So out of 1300 LJMS 197.5 or 15% from Mosby. So, Oakton, or 2/3 of Oakton is about 225 kids. Really??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least in terms of Jackson's base boundaries, 32% go to Oakton and 68% go to Falls Church according to this FCPS document.

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/sy2015-16schoolfeederlist.pdf

When you adjust for the AAP students from Thoreau at Jackson, who are about 7% of the enrollment at Jackson and end up at Madison, Marshall and TJ, the percent who go to Oakton is about 29%, and the percent who go to Falls Church is about 63%.
M

You are telling me that 6 schools feed to LJMS and FCHS and account for 68%, and somehow Oakton, and not all of Oakton, and Mosby make up 30%? Someone's numbers are not adding up. 6 schools = 68% 1.5 schools = 30%???

If you were to assume that all those schools were of equal size, 2/3 of Oakton and all of Mosby Woods would account for about 20% of Jackson, before the AAP students from Thoreau were factored in.

But the schools aren't the same size. Mosby Woods has over 1000 students and is more than twice the size of the some of the schools that feed 100% into Falls Church. I assume that's why it ends up a 32% -68% split.

Under any scenario it's significantly higher than 8% as was suggested in a PP.

Because it's a center school!!! That's why it larger. The center kids-about 79% come from Fairfax city an do not go to LJMS. Do again, explain the numbers, please!

About 35% of the kids at the MW AAP center come from the two Fairfax City schools, not 79%

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/dashboard/region1aaptransferin-out.pdf

You should really send a FOIA request to FCPS if you want to understand exactly how FCPS came up with the 32-68% split.

Fairfax Villa, Marshall Road, Providence and Daniels Run feed to MWES AAP. Does this change the numbers you quoted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At least in terms of Jackson's base boundaries, 32% go to Oakton and 68% go to Falls Church according to this FCPS document.

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/planning/sy2015-16schoolfeederlist.pdf

When you adjust for the AAP students from Thoreau at Jackson, who are about 7% of the enrollment at Jackson and end up at Madison, Marshall and TJ, the percent who go to Oakton is about 29%, and the percent who go to Falls Church is about 63%.
M

You are telling me that 6 schools feed to LJMS and FCHS and account for 68%, and somehow Oakton, and not all of Oakton, and Mosby make up 30%? Someone's numbers are not adding up. 6 schools = 68% 1.5 schools = 30%???

If you were to assume that all those schools were of equal size, 2/3 of Oakton and all of Mosby Woods would account for about 20% of Jackson, before the AAP students from Thoreau were factored in.

But the schools aren't the same size. Mosby Woods has over 1000 students and is more than twice the size of the some of the schools that feed 100% into Falls Church. I assume that's why it ends up a 32% -68% split.

Under any scenario it's significantly higher than 8% as was suggested in a PP.

Because it's a center school!!! That's why it larger. The center kids-about 79% come from Fairfax city an do not go to LJMS. Do again, explain the numbers, please!

About 35% of the kids at the MW AAP center come from the two Fairfax City schools, not 79%

http://www.fcps.edu/fts/dashboard/region1aaptransferin-out.pdf

You should really send a FOIA request to FCPS if you want to understand exactly how FCPS came up with the 32-68% split.

Fairfax Villa, Marshall Road, Providence and Daniels Run feed to MWES AAP. Does this change the numbers you quoted?

No. 67% of the AAP kids at MWES have schools other than MW as their base schools. Only a fraction of those kids live in Fairfax City.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok. 790/8 grades ( we have head start)= 98.75 students a grade. So out of 1300 LJMS 197.5 or 15% from Mosby. So, Oakton, or 2/3 of Oakton is about 225 kids. Really??

You really should get the detailed data from FCPS if you want to build an argument that it's unfair to assign students going to Oakton to Jackson. But your back-of-the-envelope analysis is clearly wrong, when for example you assume there are the same number of students in head start at MWES as in other grades (there were 16 students in head start and over 125 in first grade last month).

No matter how you slice and dice it you'll still end up with the fact that more Jackson students go to Oakton than Kilmer students go to Madison, Thoreau students go to Marshall, or Holmes students go to Edison. If eliminating split feeders is a priority, it's hard to see why the Oakton/Jackson split would be the top priority.

[Anonymous]

No I don't. The end point is to stop this ridiculous busing from the civil rights era and put kids in their neighborhood schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No I don't. The end point is to stop this ridiculous busing from the civil rights era and put kids in their neighborhood schools.

But for the civil rights era, LJ would still be a segregated, all-black high school. Maybe that would make you happier.

In any event, the notion that Thoreau is more of a "neighborhood school" than Jackson for students in those Vienna/Oakton neighborhoods is patently silly. It's about four miles from MW to either middle school, slightly less to Thoreau if you're prepared to sit in the traffic on Maple/123.

[Anonymous]

OP here --- so is there a problem day to day with over-crowding at LJMS? Same question with OHS?

And given that roughly 45 % of LJMS is FARMS -- and we might assume that that number is artificially suppressed for the non-AAP population b/c of the presence of the AAP kids who are probably not 45% farms --- what effect (if any) does that have on the non-farms kids who are NOT AAP at LJMS? ARe they in a subschool that is in effect 70% FARMS? Does that affect expectations and behavior?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here --- so is there a problem day to day with over-crowding at LJMS? Same question with OHS?

And given that roughly 45 % of LJMS is FARMS -- and we might assume that that number is artificially suppressed for the non-AAP population b/c of the presence of the AAP kids who are probably not 45% farms --- what effect (if any) does that have on the non-farms kids who are NOT AAP at LJMS? ARe they in a subschool that is in effect 70% FARMS? Does that affect expectations and behavior?

By some measures, Jackson is the most crowded middle school in the county right now, and Oakton is the second most crowded high school. There are seven GenEd classrooms in trailers at Jackson and nine at Oakton.

As for your second question, Jackson is 40.23% FARMS this year, and 333 of its 1389 students are in AAP. My guess is that the FARMS percentage in the AAP program is roughly 10%. If you do the math, it suggests the FARMS percentage for the GenEd population is roughly 50%, not 70%. You'll have to draw your own conclusions as to the correlation between lower incomes, expectations and behavior. Just because children qualify for FARMS doesn't mean they behave poorly or that expectations are low for those children. In many cases, their parents are immigrants who came here to secure a better future for their children. But they may have limited English skills and not know how to navigate the system in the same way as other parents.

[Anonymous]

Oakton used to be split mainly between Franklin and Lanier. Oakton kids never went to Thoreau as their middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oakton used to be split mainly between Franklin and Lanier. Oakton kids never went to Thoreau as their middle school.

It is now split among Carson, Franklin and Jackson, and if some of PPs had their way Thoreau would split among Madison, Oakton and Marshall.

The southern part of the Town of Vienna went to Oakton until the mid-80s but I don't know what the MS was back then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oakton used to be split mainly between Franklin and Lanier. Oakton kids never went to Thoreau as their middle school.

It is now split among Carson, Franklin and Jackson, and if some of PPs had their way Thoreau would split among Madison, Oakton and Marshall.

The southern part of the Town of Vienna went to Oakton until the mid-80s but I don't know what the MS was back then.

It doesn't make sense that any Oakton kids go to Thoreau except the ones that will go onto Madison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oakton used to be split mainly between Franklin and Lanier. Oakton kids never went to Thoreau as their middle school.

It is now split among Carson, Franklin and Jackson, and if some of PPs had their way Thoreau would split among Madison, Oakton and Marshall.

The southern part of the Town of Vienna went to Oakton until the mid-80s but I don't know what the MS was back then.

It doesn't make sense that any Oakton kids go to Thoreau except the ones that will go onto Madison.

I was referring to Oakton HS. I think you are referring to Oakton ES, which is a split feeder to Thoreau/Madison and Jackson/Oakton. Some parents want the kids zoned for Jackson MS/Oakton HS to switch to Thoreau MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oakton used to be split mainly between Franklin and Lanier. Oakton kids never went to Thoreau as their middle school.

It is now split among Carson, Franklin and Jackson, and if some of PPs had their way Thoreau would split among Madison, Oakton and Marshall.

The southern part of the Town of Vienna went to Oakton until the mid-80s but I don't know what the MS was back then.

It doesn't make sense that any Oakton kids go to Thoreau except the ones that will go onto Madison.

I was referring to Oakton HS. I think you are referring to Oakton ES, which is a split feeder to Thoreau/Madison and Jackson/Oakton. Some parents want the kids zoned for Jackson MS/Oakton HS to switch to Thoreau MS.

I meant children aligned to Oakton HS shouldn't be going to Thoreau.

[Anonymous]

As a Mosby Woods/Jackson/Oakton parent, I have been pleased overall with my kids' experiences at their schools so far (knocking on wood). Overcrowding due to rapid growth the past several years, combined with aging facilities, and the overarching FCPS issues have been challenging at all levels. It is unfortunate for us that friends at Mosby Woods go to other MS, and friends at Jackdon go to other HS. Oakton HS will be undergoing a significant renovation that might be completed for my youngest child's sophomore year. Administration and staff at Mosby and Javkson are great, and that goes a long way. I like the community as a whole, though would acknowledge that Jackson's demographics do create a different atmosphere than Mosby Woods and Oakton. I recognize that other parts of the county have it worse, and that it is too late to fix some of these problems for my kids, but I hope that the SB can come up with sensible solutions for this group of schools. We need to align with one group for ES through HS, instead of Fairfax City/Marshall Rd for ES, falls church/ Vienna for MS and western parts of the county for HS. The lack of continuity is lousy for the kids and parents, we'd like to go through as a cohort.

[Anonymous]

I don't see this changing in the Oakton pyramid any time soon. There is one more middle school than high school in the county, and one of the high schools is a regional magnet. As a result, at least a few of the middle schools will continue to be split feeders for the indefinite future, and the most likely candidates are Poe, Jackson, Franklin and Carson.