Does achievement gap occur at school or at home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will chime in on this because my experience is illustrative. I had 8 siblings and was raised by incredibly hard working, but working poor parents. My mother cleaned hotel rooms and was a CNA. My dad drove a taxi and was a security guard. They worked double shifts nearly every day. I can count on my hand the amount of times I would have seen them at school as a child, including things like the cute school performances I rush out of work to try to catch with my kids now. My parents made an effort to take us to museums that were free here, but they were exhausted and stressed and scared. We spent a ton of time alone.

I was a book work and read constantly. We received a free set of encyclopedias and as a young kid, I would spend hours during the summer reading random tidbits. It was fun for me. I was ran around outside with the siblings, went to our local pool (if we could scrounge up change to get in) and watched an intense amount of television.

I graduated at the top of my class in high school. Went to a great college, got a medical degree, and am the "American dream." People say that to my face. Three of my siblings had similar outcomes. The other four didn't. Depression, anxiety, and eventually substance abuse and crime took them from this world.

People aren't specimens. It's very difficult to tell what works, but for a sensitive kid, with potentially unserved special needs, being in a high poverty, stressful situation is a one way ticket to screwed.

I see it now, even. Living on the other side, there's just a greater margin of error in terms of life you have as an upper middle class family. It's a privilege.

Thank you for saying this pp. So many people are born on third base and like to imagine that everybody else is just lazy and lack accountability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will chime in on this because my experience is illustrative. I had 8 siblings and was raised by incredibly hard working, but working poor parents. My mother cleaned hotel rooms and was a CNA. My dad drove a taxi and was a security guard. They worked double shifts nearly every day. I can count on my hand the amount of times I would have seen them at school as a child, including things like the cute school performances I rush out of work to try to catch with my kids now. My parents made an effort to take us to museums that were free here, but they were exhausted and stressed and scared. We spent a ton of time alone.

I was a book work and read constantly. We received a free set of encyclopedias and as a young kid, I would spend hours during the summer reading random tidbits. It was fun for me. I was ran around outside with the siblings, went to our local pool (if we could scrounge up change to get in) and watched an intense amount of television.

I graduated at the top of my class in high school. Went to a great college, got a medical degree, and am the "American dream." People say that to my face. Three of my siblings had similar outcomes. The other four didn't. Depression, anxiety, and eventually substance abuse and crime took them from this world.

People aren't specimens. It's very difficult to tell what works, but for a sensitive kid, with potentially unserved special needs, being in a high poverty, stressful situation is a one way ticket to screwed.

I see it now, even. Living on the other side, there's just a greater margin of error in terms of life you have as an upper middle class family. It's a privilege.

Thank you for saying this pp. So many people are born on third base and like to imagine that everybody else is just lazy and lack accountability.

Thank you, I see this now even. I regularly hear the sentiment that poor people are lazy and the ESL farms students are ruining our schools and property values. I just sort of quietly mention that I, too, was an ESL student in Fairfax county. It usually shuts the jerk up. Or at least turns the topic to the ever fun "how do you do it all...working with kids." I always say it's easier when you only have one job!

[Anonymous]

It disappears in HS, when the schools decide to do away with exams! Hooray!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But, unfortunately, some kids just have way too many challenges to overcome. And, you can see the changes as they kids get into upper elementary. The kids who get support at home do their homework, get their projects in on time, have involved parents, etc. just do better. I don't really think they're 'smarter'. They are just more ready/able to learn because of all the support their receive at home.

The kids who have no support at home just get further and further behind at this point. The gap widens as they go through school.

NP here. My son attended our local average school for kindergarten last year. From the first month, I saw the kids who did not return their homework folder on Friday. They were mostly Hispanic or black. The smartest girl in the class was also black. She always did her homework assignments and then some. Her parents would both attend PTA meetings, come to all the class events and were very engaged. All the Asian and white kids did their homework every week.

I was the homework helper so I prepped the homework and collected homework weekly. Same kids would lose their folders, not turn in projects, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will chime in on this because my experience is illustrative. I had 8 siblings and was raised by incredibly hard working, but working poor parents. My mother cleaned hotel rooms and was a CNA. My dad drove a taxi and was a security guard. They worked double shifts nearly every day. I can count on my hand the amount of times I would have seen them at school as a child, including things like the cute school performances I rush out of work to try to catch with my kids now. My parents made an effort to take us to museums that were free here, but they were exhausted and stressed and scared. We spent a ton of time alone.

I was a book work and read constantly. We received a free set of encyclopedias and as a young kid, I would spend hours during the summer reading random tidbits. It was fun for me. I was ran around outside with the siblings, went to our local pool (if we could scrounge up change to get in) and watched an intense amount of television.

I graduated at the top of my class in high school. Went to a great college, got a medical degree, and am the "American dream." People say that to my face. Three of my siblings had similar outcomes. The other four didn't. Depression, anxiety, and eventually substance abuse and crime took them from this world.

People aren't specimens. It's very difficult to tell what works, but for a sensitive kid, with potentially unserved special needs, being in a high poverty, stressful situation is a one way ticket to screwed.

I see it now, even. Living on the other side, there's just a greater margin of error in terms of life you have as an upper middle class family. It's a privilege.

Thank you for saying this pp. So many people are born on third base and like to imagine that everybody else is just lazy and lack accountability.

Thank you, I see this now even. I regularly hear the sentiment that poor people are lazy and the ESL farms students are ruining our schools and property values. I just sort of quietly mention that I, too, was an ESL student in Fairfax county. It usually shuts the jerk up. Or at least turns the topic to the ever fun "how do you do it all...working with kids." I always say it's easier when you only have one job!

My husband was a FARMS/ESOL kid. Poor Chinese kid graduated at the top of his class, went to med school and is now a successful surgeon. He likes the finer things in life. He worked hard because he hated being poor. He hated getting free lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But, unfortunately, some kids just have way too many challenges to overcome. And, you can see the changes as they kids get into upper elementary. The kids who get support at home do their homework, get their projects in on time, have involved parents, etc. just do better. I don't really think they're 'smarter'. They are just more ready/able to learn because of all the support their receive at home.

The kids who have no support at home just get further and further behind at this point. The gap widens as they go through school.

NP here. My son attended our local average school for kindergarten last year. From the first month, I saw the kids who did not return their homework folder on Friday. They were mostly Hispanic or black. The smartest girl in the class was also black. She always did her homework assignments and then some. Her parents would both attend PTA meetings, come to all the class events and were very engaged. All the Asian and white kids did their homework every week.

I was the homework helper so I prepped the homework and collected homework weekly. Same kids would lose their folders, not turn in projects, etc.

Yet DCUM has posters who proudly state they are anti-homework for early grades, research shows it's not appropriate, they don't like their child being pushed so young blah blah blah. The double standard starting as early as K is so interesting.

[Anonymous]

Yet DCUM has posters who proudly state they are anti-homework for early grades, research shows it's not appropriate, they don't like their child being pushed so young blah blah blah. The double standard starting as early as K is so interesting

So, you want your five year old in school all day doing "academics" and then you want him to come home and do homework? Really?

I have no problem with a homework folder for K, if it is something like reading a book with your parent every day--counting something, etc. Something that takes a very short period of time and requires that the parent understand what the child is learning at school.

Same for first grade-- maybe a five minute worksheet at home, just for review and to let the parent see what is going on.

If you expect a young child to be at school all day and then come home and do homework, please let me know when he plays?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yet DCUM has posters who proudly state they are anti-homework for early grades, research shows it's not appropriate, they don't like their child being pushed so young blah blah blah. The double standard starting as early as K is so interesting

So, you want your five year old in school all day doing "academics" and then you want him to come home and do homework? Really?

I have no problem with a homework folder for K, if it is something like reading a book with your parent every day--counting something, etc. Something that takes a very short period of time and requires that the parent understand what the child is learning at school.

Same for first grade-- maybe a five minute worksheet at home, just for review and to let the parent see what is going on.

If you expect a young child to be at school all day and then come home and do homework, please let me know when he plays?

In DCUMland, when white kids don't do their homework, it is because their Mommies think it is developmentally inappropriate. When black and latiino kids don't do their homework, it is because their parents don't care about education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It disappears in HS, when the schools decide to do away with exams! Hooray!

MCPS has not done away with exams. MCPS has done away with two-hour exam periods at the end of the semester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not having opportunities is NOT the case in DC. Absolutely NOT. DC has FREE world-class museums and art galleries and tons of FREE cultural events and educational resources that most other kids anywhere else in the country would never see the likes of, and which kids anywhere else would be lucky to have access to in terms of enrichment. But talk to the typical low-SES DCPS student and he/she has likely never even set foot in any of the museums. And why? Because at home, the kid's parents, relatives, neighbors, et cetera have no fucking clue or care, and even if a well-intentioned teacher tries to enlighten them about all the opportunities that are out there, the trust and interest isn't there, they just view it as stupid shit that only eggheads and white people care about. I say this from experience. Deep cultural problems exist. It's pretty sad.

Certainly there is a failure to communicate, here. Or, at minimum, a failure to listen. Approaches based on "Your culture is bad, you should change it to be more like mine" rarely get people to change their behaviors.

Well in this case, yes their culture is bad and yes, they should change it to be more in line with valuing education and having a strong work ethic. Complaining that one is poor and then being told "ok, here is how rich people got rich." and then saying "oh I can't do that - it's not my culture" absolutely dooms one to a lifetime of being poor and complaining about being poor.

Or, they might be working really hard. A single mom working two or three jobs is not going to be able to take her kid to the museum or read to him every night or help with homework. But she's working way harder than you to provide for her kid. She might value education a lot, but she's not able to support her kid.

[Anonymous]

s wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I will chime in on this because my experience is illustrative. I had 8 siblings and was raised by incredibly hard working, but working poor parents. My mother cleaned hotel rooms and was a CNA. My dad drove a taxi and was a security guard. They worked double shifts nearly every day. I can count on my hand the amount of times I would have seen them at school as a child, including things like the cute school performances I rush out of work to try to catch with my kids now. My parents made an effort to take us to museums that were free here, but they were exhausted and stressed and scared. We spent a ton of time alone.

I was a book work and read constantly. We received a free set of encyclopedias and as a young kid, I would spend hours during the summer reading random tidbits. It was fun for me. I was ran around outside with the siblings, went to our local pool (if we could scrounge up change to get in) and watched an intense amount of television.

I graduated at the top of my class in high school. Went to a great college, got a medical degree, and am the "American dream." People say that to my face. Three of my siblings had similar outcomes. The other four didn't. Depression, anxiety, and eventually substance abuse and crime took them from this world.

People aren't specimens. It's very difficult to tell what works, but for a sensitive kid, with potentially unserved special needs, being in a high poverty, stressful situation is a one way ticket to screwed.

I see it now, even. Living on the other side, there's just a greater margin of error in terms of life you have as an upper middle class family. It's a privilege.

Thank you for saying this pp. So many people are born on third base and like to imagine that everybody else is just lazy and lack accountability.



Thank you, I see this now even. I regularly hear the sentiment that poor people are lazy and the ESL farms students are ruining our schools and property values. I just sort of quietly mention that I, too, was an ESL student in Fairfax county. It usually shuts the jerk up. Or at least turns the topic to the ever fun "how do you do it all...working with kids." I always say it's easier when you only have one job!


My husband was a FARMS/ESOL kid. Poor Chinese kid graduated at the top of his class, went to med school and is now a successful surgeon. He likes the finer things in life. He worked hard because he hated being poor. He hated getting free lunch.

PP here. No one likes getting the free lunch. But I hope your husband retained some sensitivity that the free lunch and breakfast might have been the only guaranteed meals for some of those kids. Poverty is incredibly stressful. I don't think people realize when you are worried about basic, basic needs, it really impairs your ability to learn. Particularly if you are a sensitive child.

I had a strong cognitive dissonance about my experience. I still do as an oncologist. I attribute it to my ability to separate circumstances from my existence. Not everyone can do that.

And yes, I like nice things. I live in a nice home, in a "good" Arlington zone. But I still feel for those kids and there is a part of me that will always be that poor girl, worried that she can't afford a winter coat or new shoes when her feet continue to grow.

I wish people had more empathy here. Many of them don't, though. I attribute it to the DC upper middle class areas being full of people who were raised well to do (or not poor), who had a modicum of success, and view it as though it's an indignity to have to share it with anyone else.

[Anonymous]

I think that kids do better with a sense of structure and predictability in their lives. If they don't have a regular bed time, if they don't have regular meals, baths, play time...they won't be able to focus as well at school and that will affect them in a negative way.

I don't know that it is completely an economic thing though.

[Anonymous]

Or, they might be working really hard. A single mom working two or three jobs is not going to be able to take her kid to the museum or read to him every night or help with homework. But she's working way harder than you to provide for her kid. She might value education a lot, but she's not able to support her kid.

Going to the museum is a nicety--not a necessity. It is a necessity to see that your child gets fed, and gets enough sleep. If you want your child to do better than you, then you also find the time to read to or with them. This can be done while preparing dinner or bathing or tucking in to bed. It does not require hours. And, again, there are many parents who are not working two or three jobs. There are many who are not working at all, yet do not find the time to do these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yet DCUM has posters who proudly state they are anti-homework for early grades, research shows it's not appropriate, they don't like their child being pushed so young blah blah blah. The double standard starting as early as K is so interesting

So, you want your five year old in school all day doing "academics" and then you want him to come home and do homework? Really?

I have no problem with a homework folder for K, if it is something like reading a book with your parent every day--counting something, etc. Something that takes a very short period of time and requires that the parent understand what the child is learning at school.

Same for first grade-- maybe a five minute worksheet at home, just for review and to let the parent see what is going on.

If you expect a young child to be at school all day and then come home and do homework, please let me know when he plays?

In DCUMland, when white kids don't do their homework, it is because their Mommies think it is developmentally inappropriate. When black and latiino kids don't do their homework, it is because their parents don't care about education.

First poster here, thank you for getting my point re: the double standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yet DCUM has posters who proudly state they are anti-homework for early grades, research shows it's not appropriate, they don't like their child being pushed so young blah blah blah. The double standard starting as early as K is so interesting

So, you want your five year old in school all day doing "academics" and then you want him to come home and do homework? Really?

I have no problem with a homework folder for K, if it is something like reading a book with your parent every day--counting something, etc. Something that takes a very short period of time and requires that the parent understand what the child is learning at school.

Same for first grade-- maybe a five minute worksheet at home, just for review and to let the parent see what is going on.

If you expect a young child to be at school all day and then come home and do homework, please let me know when he plays?

In DCUMland, when white kids don't do their homework, it is because their Mommies think it is developmentally inappropriate. When black and latiino kids don't do their homework, it is because their parents don't care about education.

First poster here, thank you for getting my point re: the double standard.

And to the middle poster, my child has not yet entered K so I haven't formed an opinion yet about homework. But it's good to know that if DH and I choose to have him skip an assignment some busybody parent (23:07) will be taking notes and making assumptions because my kid has brown skin.