Pledge of Allegiance in Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids do it. They also recite their school pledge, which includes things about doing their best, being a good friend, being honest and brave, working hard, and kind to one another at all times.

My family is not religious and I don't care if my kids put in the "under God". Anyway, it doesn't say "God:Jesus", so why can't it mean your God, Allah, or whomever your "God" is?

Unclench.

You do know there is more than just Jesus vs Allah? You do know that there are religions or beliefs that one should not pledge allegiance to any object?

Yes, it was an example. How many deities would have I had to have listed to have made it kosher with you (see what I did there?). Yes, I know that. Those kids/people are free to opt out. Frankly I don't care if it says one nation under "Vacuum Cleaner", that can simply close their prissy little mouth during that part.

Where do you get off calling someone's kid prissy? You have some nerve. No, I don't want my kid pledging allegiance to anything! Not even a vacuum cleaner. I will have him sit it out no problem. I was simply telling you that suggesting to refer to "their God" or another object is stupid if the entire process of pledging allegiance to a flag is against one's beliefs. You could have simply suggested to sit it out and leave it at that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would the District require this? Another dumb policy.
Do they at least take out the words "under god"?

A better question is, who are the idiot parents who "question" this?

Me, for one. I'm an atheist and don't want my child to be encouraged to pledge to something "under god." That goes against my family's values.

I have always omitted "under God" even when I was a teacher. Most people don't realize that those words were added as a response to the red scare in the 1950's. I have no problem if others chose to recite the modern version, I think it should be a choice to say it (or not)

Yeah, Congress added the words "under God" to distinguish us from those godless Communists. It was absolutely a state endorsement of religion, and totally inappropriate.

I would just teach my kid to stay silent during the pledge if he wanted. The school can't compel your kid to say it.

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of kids at Murch whose parents work at the nearby Chinese Embassy. I wonder what those parents think of their kids saying the pledge of allegiance.

[Anonymous]

Here's the Bellamy salute. For those who want to honor our traditions, let's go back to that one, shall we?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids do it. They also recite their school pledge, which includes things about doing their best, being a good friend, being honest and brave, working hard, and kind to one another at all times.

My family is not religious and I don't care if my kids put in the "under God". Anyway, it doesn't say "God:Jesus", so why can't it mean your God, Allah, or whomever your "God" is?

Unclench.

You do know there is more than just Jesus vs Allah? You do know that there are religions or beliefs that one should not pledge allegiance to any object?

Yes, it was an example. How many deities would have I had to have listed to have made it kosher with you (see what I did there?). Yes, I know that. Those kids/people are free to opt out. Frankly I don't care if it says one nation under "Vacuum Cleaner", that can simply close their prissy little mouth during that part.

Where do you get off calling someone's kid prissy? You have some nerve. No, I don't want my kid pledging allegiance to anything! Not even a vacuum cleaner. I will have him sit it out no problem. I was simply telling you that suggesting to refer to "their God" or another object is stupid if the entire process of pledging allegiance to a flag is against one's beliefs. You could have simply suggested to sit it out and leave it at that.

You're right, I apologize. It's you who I think is prissy, I have great hope that you aren't raising your kids to be like you. From the outset I suggested that the option to not do it, or respectfully stand was the option that every student had.

[Anonymous]

I've never participated in the pledge of allegiance...don't really care to, seems like a non-issue.

[Anonymous]

my parents told me not to pledge my allegiance to a government or body that could act immorally (as the US has done in the past and likely will again). I can love my country and national community and support it without offering up my allegiance. These words and concepts matter. Anyway, I stood silently for years during the pledge. Then other kids started making fun of me for not saying it. So I started saying it.

I remember the day, in fact; one or two had noticed I didn't say it and pointed it out to others right before the pledge; they were all giggling and stealing looks at me, so I said it so they wouldn't be able to tease or taunt or question me about it. It's a lot to ask of a fifth grader, imo, to stick to his/her beliefs in the face of the cruel enforcement of conformity from their peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if policy requires it in school, your kid would not be required to say it, only to be quiet and respectful while others do.

Of course. My kids have never attended a school where the pledge was recited, but if they did, I would advise them to stand respectfully and quietly, even if they choose not to recite, just as I would ask them to do if we were in any other country where a national pledge/anthem, etc., was being recited/played/sung. Basic manners, folks. We are a bunch of leftist atheists, fwiw.

I agree with both these posts. We are atheists, but I can still respect the pledge and the flag. My kids know the words, and that is ok with me. When they decide to ask me about god we can have a discussion. Because the reality is, lots of people believe in god - and they might choose to... that's ok with me. I don't worry about having to discuss it.

Thank you. I appreciate your perspective. I am a Christian and I respect the atheists who don’t feel as if they have something “to prove.”

NP. Frankly, I've yet to meet one.

You have. They just don't talk about it. Why would they? My husband has worked with his company for 7 years and I doubt anyone there knows he is athiest (like no doubt in his mind, as there is in mine, that there is no higher being and that all we are are atoms of the earth). He gives two figs about religion, so why should he bring it up?

[Anonymous]

Do you stand, remove your hat, hand over heart, anything during the national anthem? (directed to those who find the pledge fascist, immoral, etc)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even if policy requires it in school, your kid would not be required to say it, only to be quiet and respectful while others do.

Of course. My kids have never attended a school where the pledge was recited, but if they did, I would advise them to stand respectfully and quietly, even if they choose not to recite, just as I would ask them to do if we were in any other country where a national pledge/anthem, etc., was being recited/played/sung. Basic manners, folks. We are a bunch of leftist atheists, fwiw.

I agree with both these posts. We are atheists, but I can still respect the pledge and the flag. My kids know the words, and that is ok with me. When they decide to ask me about god we can have a discussion. Because the reality is, lots of people believe in god - and they might choose to... that's ok with me. I don't worry about having to discuss it.

Thank you. I appreciate your perspective. I am a Christian and I respect the atheists who don’t feel as if they have something “to prove.”

NP. Frankly, I've yet to meet one.

You have. They just don't talk about it. Why would they? My husband has worked with his company for 7 years and I doubt anyone there knows he is athiest (like no doubt in his mind, as there is in mine, that there is no higher being and that all we are are atoms of the earth). He gives two figs about religion, so why should he bring it up?

I'm guessing that the PP means that she specifically takes issue with atheists who have something "to prove"….you know, akin to evangelical christians. Your husband sadly wouldn't fit her criteria as he would fall into the "respectful" atheist who knows his place and doesn't talk about it , therefore is respected by the Christian PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you stand, remove your hat, hand over heart, anything during the national anthem? (directed to those who find the pledge fascist, immoral, etc)

I have not said the pledge of allegiance since I was in grade school. I do stand for the national anthem, just as I stand and sit with the congregation when I attend a religious service, even though I don't believe in God. I also stand for the pledge of allegiance and sometimes put my hand over my heart. I respect our country and its flag, although i sometimes find reverence for the flag borders on idolatry (ironic for an atheist, I know). I just don't support the pledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you stand, remove your hat, hand over heart, anything during the national anthem? (directed to those who find the pledge fascist, immoral, etc)

I have not said the pledge of allegiance since I was in grade school. I do stand for the national anthem, just as I stand and sit with the congregation when I attend a religious service, even though I don't believe in God. I also stand for the pledge of allegiance and sometimes put my hand over my heart. I respect our country and its flag, although i sometimes find reverence for the flag borders on idolatry (ironic for an atheist, I know). I just don't support the pledge.

+1.

I even sing the national anthem when it's appropriate and served three years in the Marine Corps. Making all kids pledge allegiance to the flag is nonsensical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you stand, remove your hat, hand over heart, anything during the national anthem? (directed to those who find the pledge fascist, immoral, etc)

1) I'm not unpatriotic. Yes, my country has a place in my heart so yes my hand would be there. The national anthem does not ask me to pledge my allegiance; it asks me to listen to a tribute of love for this country. I just don't want to pledge my allegiance to a governmental body that has done some very immoral things in the past and will do in the future.

2) I have never in at least a decade been someone where the national anthem is played. We are talking about sports events right? Maybe high school graduations?

3) I wish This land is my land could be our national anthem. That songs moves me and is easy to sing - which befits a democracy.

[Anonymous]

2. Really? A child sang it at every swim meet this summer and its played at all major sporting events and we go to a lot of military/USO/wounded warrior events- hear it all the time.

[Anonymous]

At sporting events and veterans events is hardly all the time. People can easily go for years or decades without attending either, although admittedly that's unlikely if you have kids.