Confessions/secrets from Sts, OTs, PTs, special ed teachers, administrators, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm another Sped teacher who is also a SN parent. This probably isn't a secret, but one thing I wish parents understood is that my time and attention are scarce resources. The law may say that the school needs to staff adequately to meet every student's needs, but the reality is that unless you add a dedicated aide, the staffing at my school isn't going to change based on your child's IEP. So, when we're in a meeting, and you're advocating for support at a specific point in the day, or for more minutes of services or services in a different location (e.g. pull out if they're currently push in, or vice versa), I'm thinking of whatever else I'm already scheduled to be doing at that moment.

The reality might be that the recess support you're asking for for your second grader is a great idea, but second grade recess is first grade reading, and the in class reading support I provide to Jose and Mary is crucial. It might be that your kid would do great if I pushed into math class, but then where would Suzie and Malik go? All of this is running through my mind during the meeting.

I'm not asking parents to change what they advocate for, just to understand why I might need time to process, or I might propose an alternative solution. It's not that I'm lazy. It's not that I don't care about your kid. It's that I also care about the other kids, some of whose parents aren't great advocates. I can also guarantee that there are also times when I'm doing the same thing in other IEPs, and the kid I'm thinking of is yours.

I definitely know SN teachers have time constraints and I view it as an impossible job. I have enormous respect for people who do it well and I let them and the principal know. The thing is schools need to brainstorm how to handle these things. People roll their eyes at parent participation, but if you are having recess issues over and over with many students and there is no way for the support staff to help, then perhaps there need to be parent volunteers there too, so you have more eyes making sure the kids are playing safely. If children are wandering alone, see if you can start a buddy program at that grade level or have older kids who be buddies or help facilitate play if they have something going on they can miss.

While I wouldn't have parents teaching reading groups, I would have them watching kids as they write in journals, etc so the teacher can work with a small group.

Some people complain that allowing parent volunteers to help more just leads to gossip and unfair treatment, etc. Guess what if enough other parents see this and say something or the staff notices or whatever then you simply don't allow that parent in the classroom or on the playground anymore. He or she can be reassigned to volunteer in the library or cafeteria.

I'm the PP you're responding to, and I agree that there needs to be brainstorming, but my point is that that brainstorming isn't always something that can happen real time in an IEP meeting. Sometimes there are people who need to be part of the conversation who aren't present (e.g. Maybe I could go to the second half of first grade reading, but I can't make that decision without talking to the first grade teacher. Maybe Ms. Smith has a pull out group at that point that could absorb Henry. Maybe Mr. Jones is already providing resource support and isn't so stretched that he couldn't take on Joey too . . .

Sometimes there are confidentiality reasons. Maybe the reason I'm busy is because that's when Jose's seizure meds are at their lowest, and his temporal lobe seizures can't be handled safely without a 1:1 ratio. I can't have that conversation at an IEP meeting, because it isn't fair to Jose. Maybe Molly's mom told you that her daughter's skills are just like your child's so you want them together, but I know that she either over or underestimated her child when she said that, so your proposed solution of putting your child with Molly isn't going to work.

Again, I'm happy to brainstorm. But I need time. Now, I'll say that in my experience, most parents recognize that when I ask for it. But I'm a veteran teacher, so I've had years to learn how to talk to parents. I don't see newer teachers getting the same courtesy, instead I see parents jump to the conclusion that a teacher doesn't care, when that couldn't be further from the truth.

I disagree with you that parent volunteers are the solution, but I'm not going to derail this conversation into a totally different topic.

That is helpful to know. I don't think anyone is saying that parent volunteers are the answer to everything, but more that we need to be open-minded in coming up with options.

My frustration is more when time is spent bullshitting. We have a very nice SN teacher who loves to chit chat. I will give a quick hello in the hallway only to have SN teacher come over to tell me things that should not be said in the hallways and to spend too much time chatting about minutia. I realize some parents seek teachers out, but I respect that they are busy and there is nothing this person tells me that I don't already know. It's not earth shattering stuff. It's more like 'We got the report you submitted from Larla's expert doctor. The info is helpful. I saw Larla in Science today and she was enjoying the experiment. Then she and her friend smiled at eachother. It looks like the social skills are improving, but there are areas we still need to address (which are already highlighted on the IEP). Larla got nervous when she didn't have a pencil so we solved this issue by giving her a pencil. Sometimes she drops her notebook so we have her pick it up. If I see this happen, I try to enter the room and get her notebook for her. She seems to handle that nicely." Time and again I say things like "I know you are busy, so you can email me if there is something you want to share" or "I really have to go pick up Larla for her therapy session." Communication is wonderful, but it can be done succinctly with some of us and not at the expense of another child's intervention time. These convos can be over 20 minutes. I'm sure there is some place this teacher is supposed to be.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I felt the same way when I was at the qualification mtg and I found out they had already made up their minds about whether my son had qualified and under what category. I was just getting the interpretation of the psych educational exam at that mtg (I had the report but I am no expert and we were getting the psychologist's explanation). I found out that they had already talked to the psychologist ahead of time and had planned that he qualified and under what category. That answered my question of: how could we possibly go through the entire 25+ page report and then decide whether he qualified and under what category in a mtg that was scheduled to be 1 hour long? I didn't think it was fair at all. Why would it be unprofessional for team members to disagree, in your view, SPED teacher??

In my experience, this is why there are "pre meetings," if you could even call them that. It's to help ensure that the meetings do not go over. I don't think most parents appreciate how time-consuming these meetings are for teachers, who are supposed to be in class with their students. Teachers have to either spend their valuable planning time (for all the students) or get a sub to attend IEP meetings. If you are a special ed teacher, you are attending many, many of these meetings, and even gen-ed teachers must attend a fair number. And that's not even including all the time spent writing the IEP. If meetings go 1.5 to two hours, this hurts the whole class, because subs generally do not teach lessons. Teachers can't say any of this to the parents, of course, because if they do, they are perceived as (a) uncaring, (b) lazy, or (c) something worse.

In my experience, teachers only discuss IEP details ahead of a meeting to streamline the process (i.e.--"what do you think of this speech goal for Johnny? Does it look okay?"), not to circumvent the parents' input. I can see how a parent would think this, but that's not what I've seen happening.

[Anonymous]

You're responding to me but I'm talking specifically about an evaluation, not goal setting. The two are different in my view. I have my problem with the school personnel drafting some goals ahead of the meeting.

However, I don't think it was right or fair that the shook personnel had a chance to go over the eval with th psychologist before the meeting. But I didn't. How can I be expected to get through the entire report in a one hour meeting? And then talk about eligibility? It's crazy! How can I possibly be ready to discuss that at the very same meeting?

[Anonymous]

PS I do not think teachers are uncaring, lazy, or worse as you imply. I just think it is crazy that the school personnel got a chance to ask their q's to the psychologist ahead of time and we did not. And also that they had also had a plan about his eligibility before the supposed eligibility meeting ever happened.

[Anonymous]

Triple posting. The school personnel didn't save any time by having a pre-meeting and asking their questions of the psychologist ahead of time! They just spent time without me me my spouse present.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're responding to me but I'm talking specifically about an evaluation, not goal setting. The two are different in my view. I have my problem with the school personnel drafting some goals ahead of the meeting.

However, I don't think it was right or fair that the shook personnel had a chance to go over the eval with th psychologist before the meeting. But I didn't. How can I be expected to get through the entire report in a one hour meeting? And then talk about eligibility? It's crazy! How can I possibly be ready to discuss that at the very same meeting?

NP. When my son had a psychoeducational eval done by our school, the psychologist sent me a copy of her report as soon as it was completed and explained the results way ahead of our IEP (eligibility) meeting. I don't know if there were any school meetings without the parents but the psych also attended the IEP meetings to explain the results to the rest of the IEP team. We are at a DC charter that acts as its own Lea and contracts out evaluations and services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're responding to me but I'm talking specifically about an evaluation, not goal setting. The two are different in my view. I have my problem with the school personnel drafting some goals ahead of the meeting.

However, I don't think it was right or fair that the shook personnel had a chance to go over the eval with th psychologist before the meeting. But I didn't. How can I be expected to get through the entire report in a one hour meeting? And then talk about eligibility? It's crazy! How can I possibly be ready to discuss that at the very same meeting?

I'm a SN Parent/Sped teacher. I haven't weighed in on this particular topic, although I am the one having the conversation upthread about limited resources, and needing time to brainstorm.

I agree with you 100% that parents need a chance to understand the report, and digest that information, before they're asked to participate in a meeting where critical decisions, such as eligibility, are made based on the report. The best school psychologists I've worked with encourage parents to call them during the time between getting the report and the meeting, or even schedule 1:1 meetings to review reports before the eligibility meeting. I think this should be standard practice, partially because I think that parents need to be equal participants in meetings, but also because I think that parents deserve privacy when they are processing difficult news.

I also think that most people who are trying to interpret a report, do so in the context of what they already know. For gen ed teachers, it means that many of the questions we get when we first get a report are things like "Why do you see him as not qualifying for LD when he's in the same reading group as Johnny who has an IEP?" or "When you say working memory, do you mean like Leo?" For parents that might be the opportunity to ask questions that relate a child to a family member, such as "His uncle who has the same symptoms has X diagnosis, do you think he might have the same thing?" In both cases there are confidentiality concerns.

[Anonymous]

NP Mom here. I did not even realize they weren't supposed to have a pre-meeting. Our school team often does. As for the psychologist's report, they sent me an incomplete draft a couple days before that said DD was eligible, then on the day off, swapped it out with the final that said she was not! They were then surprised that I had the first one and said it was only a draft I wasn't supposed to get (yet, the "team" members had it). I pushed back based on our neuropsych's report (which it looked like they hadn't even considered) and some work samples I happened to have "handy." She got an IEP, which is less than I think she needs (we spend over $1000 per month supplementing with OG based tutoring for reading, which they denied an IEP for). They have since hinted that they are trying to phase out the IEP because they don't want her to "see herself as a special needs kid" because she's so much different than the special ed kids (she's smart, maybe not exactly 2e, but quick, yet she can barely read and write).

Bottom line, I really think it's a resources/money issue. Because my child gets better grades than some others, they think she doesn't need an IEP. She gets ok grades because she is fairly bright and can fake it, but next year she's in 5th grade. I'm not sure how much longer that will keep up before she implodes. Also, it's killing her self-esteem and she has major anxiety (that we are treating with CBT -- another $800 a month). Yah, maybe she could getting marginally passing grades without an IEP (for now) but at what cost?

So tell me, folks in side the system, is it basically all about the money and the resources?

[Anonymous]

PP here. day of, not day off.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the poster about resources. We are also spending a tremendous amount of money that insurance doesn't pick up for us. The schools think that just because we do these services, and that our child hasn't completely bombed out, that we shouldn't get these services from the school. But the money we are spending is a huge burden on us. I sometimes feel that the school administrators think it's easy for us to come up with this money. We are constantly on the edge financially bc of the expenses we have to deal with. If school would help more, maybe we wouldn't be almost drowning in debt!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the poster about resources. We are also spending a tremendous amount of money that insurance doesn't pick up for us. The schools think that just because we do these services, and that our child hasn't completely bombed out, that we shouldn't get these services from the school. But the money we are spending is a huge burden on us. I sometimes feel that the school administrators think it's easy for us to come up with this money. We are constantly on the edge financially bc of the expenses we have to deal with. If school would help more, maybe we wouldn't be almost drowning in debt!

I'm the PP you are referring to us. I remember at one meeting telling the principals that DD probably WOULD fail if we stopped all of the resources we provide (and then they'd have to provide an IEP), but I wasn't willing to put her through that. Basically, what we were providing was keeping her from needing an IEP. The principal had the nerve to say to me, "Isn't it nice that you can afford to do that for her?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're responding to me but I'm talking specifically about an evaluation, not goal setting. The two are different in my view. I have my problem with the school personnel drafting some goals ahead of the meeting.

However, I don't think it was right or fair that the shook personnel had a chance to go over the eval with th psychologist before the meeting. But I didn't. How can I be expected to get through the entire report in a one hour meeting? And then talk about eligibility? It's crazy! How can I possibly be ready to discuss that at the very same meeting?

NP. When my son had a psychoeducational eval done by our school, the psychologist sent me a copy of her report as soon as it was completed and explained the results way ahead of our IEP (eligibility) meeting. I don't know if there were any school meetings without the parents but the psych also attended the IEP meetings to explain the results to the rest of the IEP team. We are at a DC charter that acts as its own Lea and contracts out evaluations and services.

Us too (DC charter, own LEA, contract psychologist) but they did not offer us the chance to talk to the psychologist before the meeting, which I was told was to discuss the results of the report and determine the eligibility. Here was a whole lot to sites in that report and a lot of hinge I had questions on. I suppose if the school has a chance to ask pre-questions then we should have a chance to do so as well. That is what I reacted negatively too--finding out hey had discussed it previously but we were not offered a chance to do so. Admittedly I didn't ask but I thought the meeting was the chance to discuss. I just thought the school personnel had a leg up on us, which they revealed at the meeting (that they had already asked their q's).

[Anonymous]

Phone typos. "there was a whole lot to digest"...

[Anonymous]

My confession is that I rarely see inclusion work in practice. Many classroom teachers don't want us in there, the staffing for in classroom support is too low and the pace of the modern classroom makes it incredibly difficult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're responding to me but I'm talking specifically about an evaluation, not goal setting. The two are different in my view. I have my problem with the school personnel drafting some goals ahead of the meeting.

However, I don't think it was right or fair that the shook personnel had a chance to go over the eval with th psychologist before the meeting. But I didn't. How can I be expected to get through the entire report in a one hour meeting? And then talk about eligibility? It's crazy! How can I possibly be ready to discuss that at the very same meeting?

I agree with you 100% that parents need a chance to understand the report, and digest that information, before they're asked to participate in a meeting where critical decisions, such as eligibility, are made based on the report. The best school psychologists I've worked with encourage parents to call them during the time between getting the report and the meeting, or even schedule 1:1 meetings to review reports before the eligibility meeting. I think this should be standard practice, partially because I think that parents need to be equal participants in meetings, but also because I think that parents deserve privacy when they are processing difficult news.

I also think that most people who are trying to interpret a report, do so in the context of what they already know. For gen ed teachers, it means that many of the questions we get when we first get a report are things like "Why do you see him as not qualifying for LD when he's in the same reading group as Johnny who has an IEP?" or "When you say working memory, do you mean like Leo?" For parents that might be the opportunity to ask questions that relate a child to a family member, such as "His uncle who has the same symptoms has X diagnosis, do you think he might have the same thing?" In both cases there are confidentiality concerns.

Thanks, PP. I'm the one complaining about this. I didn't know enough at the time to ask for this and it certainly was not offered even though I definitely expressed skepticism ahead of time about the full agenda for this meeting (discussion of report plus eligibility determination). And my not having the chance to discuss the report ahead of time with the psychologist certainly lengthened the meeting, because I have loads of questions about my kid. So it certainly was by no means a time-saving measure for the entire team. I had not heard of this idea until just now (that the parents would have a chance to discuss the results ahead of time.)