Confessions/secrets from Sts, OTs, PTs, special ed teachers, administrators, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You must be a sub in MCPS. Amirite?

Not the PP you're responding to but I swear she's in FCPS!

Yep. I vote FCPS. They are stupid to try to assess who can afford a lawyer. I live in a modest house inside and out and I don't drive a fancy car, but I got a bunch of money in savings I strictly use for interventions for our child with SN and for an emergency lawyer fund if needed.

[Anonymous]

I'm another Sped teacher who is also a SN parent. This probably isn't a secret, but one thing I wish parents understood is that my time and attention are scarce resources. The law may say that the school needs to staff adequately to meet every student's needs, but the reality is that unless you add a dedicated aide, the staffing at my school isn't going to change based on your child's IEP. So, when we're in a meeting, and you're advocating for support at a specific point in the day, or for more minutes of services or services in a different location (e.g. pull out if they're currently push in, or vice versa), I'm thinking of whatever else I'm already scheduled to be doing at that moment.

The reality might be that the recess support you're asking for for your second grader is a great idea, but second grade recess is first grade reading, and the in class reading support I provide to Jose and Mary is crucial. It might be that your kid would do great if I pushed into math class, but then where would Suzie and Malik go? All of this is running through my mind during the meeting.

I'm not asking parents to change what they advocate for, just to understand why I might need time to process, or I might propose an alternative solution. It's not that I'm lazy. It's not that I don't care about your kid. It's that I also care about the other kids, some of whose parents aren't great advocates. I can also guarantee that there are also times when I'm doing the same thing in other IEPs, and the kid I'm thinking of is yours.

[Anonymous]

DCPS does use PIPs for central office staff I've seen more than one employee leave via a PIP. Google DC gov employee handbook - they are still in use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Substitute teacher, so this is what I've heard from colleagues in the lounge, and socially. I have a SN child so I pay attention to this.

Everyone knows this one. School teams that meet prior to the official IEP meeting presumably to familiarize everyone with the latest on the child's situation, but who are really meeting to get everyone from the school or district "on the same page" which makes it clear that people who object should stay silent.

Principals and SN coordinators who tell classroom teachers or PTs, OTs, SLTs they should not speak in IEP meetings unless asked a direct question and to "follow their lead" in the meeting meaning they can't object to anything the SN coordinators say or raise questions or any new concerns.

That everyone knows the SN coordinators at certain schools are lazy as crap and they have an understanding with the principals to not give out IEPs so the kids have no choice but to go to privates and the remaining students are easier to handle as there are fewer special needs kids.

That they manipulate data collected to say whatever they want it to say which is usually either that a kid has no problem or that the kid needs to leave the school. It will rarely say the child needs more services and that these services can be given at the school.

That they try to guess whether a parent is upset and wealthy enough to get a lawyer and go to due process and make the amount of push back on services commensurate to this rather than a child's actual need.

That they think they can get away with it because they are good at the documentation which is all most people at the district level have time to look at.

As a teacher I'd like to share that I've never experienced any of the schools I've worked at in the last 13 years, nor have I heard any of these points from friends at other schools! I am sure it can happen at some schools, but I do not think it's the norm and to be honest I'm offended that people would think it is. I'm sorry to hear you've had such negative experiences.

What I'd like to share is that most of us in education aren't "out to get you." It's frustrating when parents come in with their guard up because they think this and doubt that we want what is best for their child.

[Anonymous]

As a teacher I'd like to share that I've never experienced any of the schools I've worked at in the last 13 years, nor have I heard any of these points from friends at other schools! I am sure it can happen at some schools, but I do not think it's the norm and to be honest I'm offended that people would think it is. I'm sorry to hear you've had such negative experiences.

What I'd like to share is that most of us in education aren't "out to get you." It's frustrating when parents come in with their guard up because they think this and doubt that we want what is best for their child.

9:05 here. I'm also the PP that thinks the prior poster is a sub in FCPS. I'm happy to hear that you haven't experienced what was llisted. If you think the norm are schools like yours, you should read about the Alessi study http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/ALESSI1.html or read more threads on the SN Forum where parents are having problems with schools. I don't think school teams are 'out to get me' but I do believe services are hoarded and that staff are penalized for offering more than what's 'allowed' or for acknowledging what the school is doing should be changed. I've seen it time and time again. When I hear about the experiences of other people (and read things on Wrights Law), it's hard to believe that what I experience is uncommon. You really shouldn't be offended or frustrated when parents come in not believing the school is going to do the appropriate thing. If we changed schools, I wouldn't be any more trusting of the new school than I am our current schools. FCPS has made me this way. You can't expect a dog that's been repeatedly beaten not to be wary and distrusting.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for sharing this. It's unfortunate the system is this way. This type of thing happened to my child who needs support during a certain time and everyone knew it, but the Sped teacher kept trying to say we needed something else which was baffling. Her alternative solution was a huge fail, but it's helpful for us to understand her perspective that maybe if she had given our child support during that time maybe Jose or Mary would have been the ones failing.

Anonymous wrote:I'm another Sped teacher who is also a SN parent. This probably isn't a secret, but one thing I wish parents understood is that my time and attention are scarce resources. The law may say that the school needs to staff adequately to meet every student's needs, but the reality is that unless you add a dedicated aide, the staffing at my school isn't going to change based on your child's IEP. So, when we're in a meeting, and you're advocating for support at a specific point in the day, or for more minutes of services or services in a different location (e.g. pull out if they're currently push in, or vice versa), I'm thinking of whatever else I'm already scheduled to be doing at that moment.

The reality might be that the recess support you're asking for for your second grader is a great idea, but second grade recess is first grade reading, and the in class reading support I provide to Jose and Mary is crucial. It might be that your kid would do great if I pushed into math class, but then where would Suzie and Malik go? All of this is running through my mind during the meeting.

I'm not asking parents to change what they advocate for, just to understand why I might need time to process, or I might propose an alternative solution. It's not that I'm lazy. It's not that I don't care about your kid. It's that I also care about the other kids, some of whose parents aren't great advocates. I can also guarantee that there are also times when I'm doing the same thing in other IEPs, and the kid I'm thinking of is yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You must be a sub in MCPS. Amirite?

Not the PP you're responding to but I swear she's in FCPS!

Yep. I vote FCPS. They are stupid to try to assess who can afford a lawyer. I live in a modest house inside and out and I don't drive a fancy car, but I got a bunch of money in savings I strictly use for interventions for our child with SN and for an emergency lawyer fund if needed.

No, I don't believe the sub who posted is in FCPS. Why? Because I've been in FCPS for well over 18 years in several schools as a teacher and an administrator. We don't use the term "special needs coordinator" or "SN coordinator."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm another Sped teacher who is also a SN parent. This probably isn't a secret, but one thing I wish parents understood is that my time and attention are scarce resources. The law may say that the school needs to staff adequately to meet every student's needs, but the reality is that unless you add a dedicated aide, the staffing at my school isn't going to change based on your child's IEP. So, when we're in a meeting, and you're advocating for support at a specific point in the day, or for more minutes of services or services in a different location (e.g. pull out if they're currently push in, or vice versa), I'm thinking of whatever else I'm already scheduled to be doing at that moment.

The reality might be that the recess support you're asking for for your second grader is a great idea, but second grade recess is first grade reading, and the in class reading support I provide to Jose and Mary is crucial. It might be that your kid would do great if I pushed into math class, but then where would Suzie and Malik go? All of this is running through my mind during the meeting.

I'm not asking parents to change what they advocate for, just to understand why I might need time to process, or I might propose an alternative solution. It's not that I'm lazy. It's not that I don't care about your kid. It's that I also care about the other kids, some of whose parents aren't great advocates. I can also guarantee that there are also times when I'm doing the same thing in other IEPs, and the kid I'm thinking of is yours.

Same for me. I'm an elementary teacher who provides academic support for students in 4 different grade levels.

[Anonymous]

I'm placing my bet on that sub working in MCPS too. I have heard rumors of "pre IEP meetings" there. That hasn't happened to us in Fairfax (that I know of).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As a teacher I'd like to share that I've never experienced any of the schools I've worked at in the last 13 years, nor have I heard any of these points from friends at other schools! I am sure it can happen at some schools, but I do not think it's the norm and to be honest I'm offended that people would think it is. I'm sorry to hear you've had such negative experiences.

What I'd like to share is that most of us in education aren't "out to get you." It's frustrating when parents come in with their guard up because they think this and doubt that we want what is best for their child.

9:05 here. I'm also the PP that thinks the prior poster is a sub in FCPS. I'm happy to hear that you haven't experienced what was llisted. If you think the norm are schools like yours, you should read about the Alessi study http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/ALESSI1.html or read more threads on the SN Forum where parents are having problems with schools. I don't think school teams are 'out to get me' but I do believe services are hoarded and that staff are penalized for offering more than what's 'allowed' or for acknowledging what the school is doing should be changed. I've seen it time and time again. When I hear about the experiences of other people (and read things on Wrights Law), it's hard to believe that what I experience is uncommon. You really shouldn't be offended or frustrated when parents come in not believing the school is going to do the appropriate thing. If we changed schools, I wouldn't be any more trusting of the new school than I am our current schools. FCPS has made me this way. You can't expect a dog that's been repeatedly beaten not to be wary and distrusting.

I give you a standing ovation because I was pretty much going to say the same thing!!

I think people are quick to get defensive and think that just because they don't do these things are these things don't happen at their school, it must not be so. You may come from an abuse fre family and you may have grown up with friends who also came from abuse free families. This doesn't mean you can conclude that abuse doesn't exist or that it must be very, very rare.

To the person who said FCPS never ruses the word "special needs coordinator," this is news to me because they use it all the time at our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm another Sped teacher who is also a SN parent. This probably isn't a secret, but one thing I wish parents understood is that my time and attention are scarce resources. The law may say that the school needs to staff adequately to meet every student's needs, but the reality is that unless you add a dedicated aide, the staffing at my school isn't going to change based on your child's IEP. So, when we're in a meeting, and you're advocating for support at a specific point in the day, or for more minutes of services or services in a different location (e.g. pull out if they're currently push in, or vice versa), I'm thinking of whatever else I'm already scheduled to be doing at that moment.

The reality might be that the recess support you're asking for for your second grader is a great idea, but second grade recess is first grade reading, and the in class reading support I provide to Jose and Mary is crucial. It might be that your kid would do great if I pushed into math class, but then where would Suzie and Malik go? All of this is running through my mind during the meeting.

I'm not asking parents to change what they advocate for, just to understand why I might need time to process, or I might propose an alternative solution. It's not that I'm lazy. It's not that I don't care about your kid. It's that I also care about the other kids, some of whose parents aren't great advocates. I can also guarantee that there are also times when I'm doing the same thing in other IEPs, and the kid I'm thinking of is yours.

I definitely know SN teachers have time constraints and I view it as an impossible job. I have enormous respect for people who do it well and I let them and the principal know. The thing is schools need to brainstorm how to handle these things. People roll their eyes at parent participation, but if you are having recess issues over and over with many students and there is no way for the support staff to help, then perhaps there need to be parent volunteers there too, so you have more eyes making sure the kids are playing safely. If children are wandering alone, see if you can start a buddy program at that grade level or have older kids who be buddies or help facilitate play if they have something going on they can miss.

While I wouldn't have parents teaching reading groups, I would have them watching kids as they write in journals, etc so the teacher can work with a small group.

Some people complain that allowing parent volunteers to help more just leads to gossip and unfair treatment, etc. Guess what if enough other parents see this and say something or the staff notices or whatever then you simply don't allow that parent in the classroom or on the playground anymore. He or she can be reassigned to volunteer in the library or cafeteria.

[Anonymous]

Of course they have pre-IEP meetings in MCPS. Once I got to my school about 15 minutes early. The person in he office was new, and said oh I will take you to the room. Where everyone else on the team was sitting. They looked sheepish and said we are not ready for you yet and had the office lady escort me back to the office. Where I waited for another 20 minutes while they all "got on the same page."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm placing my bet on that sub working in MCPS too. I have heard rumors of "pre IEP meetings" there. That hasn't happened to us in Fairfax (that I know of).

Oh, it definitely happens in FCPS. I'm the OP of this thread http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/479626.page . I've filed a state complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course they have pre-IEP meetings in MCPS. Once I got to my school about 15 minutes early. The person in he office was new, and said oh I will take you to the room. Where everyone else on the team was sitting. They looked sheepish and said we are not ready for you yet and had the office lady escort me back to the office. Where I waited for another 20 minutes while they all "got on the same page."

+1. It absolutely happens in FCPS. Even if you haven't been escorted to the room, you get there in time for your appointment which is the first one in the day. All the staff is already there, but for whatever reason it takes them 20mn or more to usher you in to the room, where they all have the exact same perspective on your child's needs (and one which you happen to disagree with and substantiate with plenty of evidence). What exactly do you think they're doing during that time--shooting the breeze?
When you raise objections, one of the head honchos will speak up and say that "our position is that..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course they have pre-IEP meetings in MCPS. Once I got to my school about 15 minutes early. The person in he office was new, and said oh I will take you to the room. Where everyone else on the team was sitting. They looked sheepish and said we are not ready for you yet and had the office lady escort me back to the office. Where I waited for another 20 minutes while they all "got on the same page."

+1. It absolutely happens in FCPS. Even if you haven't been escorted to the room, you get there in time for your appointment which is the first one in the day. All the staff is already there, but for whatever reason it takes them 20mn or more to usher you in to the room, where they all have the exact same perspective on your child's needs (and one which you happen to disagree with and substantiate with plenty of evidence). What exactly do you think they're doing during that time--shooting the breeze?
When you raise objections, one of the head honchos will speak up and say that "our position is that..."

I don't think it's a bad thing to have a pre-meeting, but I do think some teams simply use/abuse it to get everyone to go along rather than making sure you know the recs and what the issues are. It's so funny because when I was pleased with the teacher and team, the meetings were so chill. Just a few of us in a small room and it took maybe a half hour tops. Then we got a teacher who was a really poor fit and a special educator who wasn't following the IEP and who was incapable of advocating for DC. I got vocal. From then on our IEP meetings have taken place in a larger room with a small army of people and they drag on sometimes to multiple meetings. Everyone has to shift around to try to make room for us. The principal is always there now rather than a principal designee. Once both the principal and Vice principal were there. I felt like asking "Don't you have a school to run?"

In some ways it has worked to our favor because she sees some of the crap we put up with-someone goes rogue and says something just plain rude/unprofessional and she has to correct them/reframe things. They also get their ducks in a row and follow proper procedure. They always, always pre-meet before we come (ever since I became vocal). The receptionist will say "Oh they are still meeting. Larla will come get you when they are ready for you."