FCPS demographic changes are largest cost increase besides salary. explain it.

[Anonymous]

They need a much more complicated yield formula than the one they have currently.

Or, at least a more realistic yield formula. Also, they need to crack down at least a little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

One PP here. I want them to be a STRONGER VOICE for change on this issue. I have only ever heard Sandy Evans, my board member, meekly and weakly speak about what is causing overcrowding issues in our schools. I know that at the end of the day they are just politicians, but even being just a BIT less politically correct would go a long way. Our student population keeps growing with little housing being added - this is a HUGE EFFING PROBLEM.

And it is not the BOS that sets student ratio yield formulas; it is FCPS.

And schools have tremendous power to track overcrowding. Three families using one address for school registration? Send it over to code enforcement to investigate. This would be a very simple cross-reference of their address database and measures like this would not require much manpower.

See Maryland tagged cars dropping off children? I see this a lot. I assume that they are car tax-dodging or undocumented immigrants taking advantage of Maryland's lax laws. They have no business having their children attending our schools. They should be going to school in Maryland, where they are paying their taxes. Set up police to ticket them. Fine them and get them OUT! Car taxes fund schools and other municipal programs.

This will really help to EDUCATE the kids! Not.

"Our student population keeps growing with little housing being added - this is a HUG EFFING PROBLEM."- Why? Besides poor housing conditions, why is this a problem for the schools? Of course if housing is added, there is more of a base to tax, but if no housing is added then values go up and taxes go up. More people into an apartment = more income generation for that apartment = that property should go up in value = it should generate more tax revenue.

Do you really want schools to turn into an arm of the police state? Maybe you do, but most people do not want that.

You are welcomed to rat out your neighbors with MD tags - VDOT's site has links to allow you to do so. Maybe you can take a couple more steps and rat out neighbors who have made improvements to their homes. Let the county know so the property values can reflect all that money they've used to make their homes nicer.

You seem to be hung up on this yield issue. Yield is used by FCPS to estimate the student load from new developments in each school boundary in order to plan facilities improvements (eg. trailers or expansions) or redistricting. Maybe FCPS is bad at this and needs to do a better job. But yield formulas have nothing to do with increasing housing stock, or increasing tax base, or anything of the sort.

[Anonymous]

FCPS uses the yield formulas for prospective planning - it sounds like they get this wrong a lot.

Maybe if they have more accurate yield formulas they can know future enrollments better and be in a better position to *ask for more tax dollars*.

If you're arguing that FCPS uses yield numbers that are too low, aren't you also saying that FCPS should get more money than they do? i.e. because they will need more facilities than they think they will need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The yield formulas impact how much real estate taxes the owners are charged, so it does make a difference.

Really? This is news to me. Do you have cites / sources?

As far as I know, Fairfax bases it real estate taxes on a base rate x (value of land + improvements), plus special charges for certain specific tax districts (like Reston CC, McLean CC, etc.). Nowhere does it talk about "yield." Now obviously a 3BR apt occupying the same sqft as a 2BR next door will have more RE taxes because its assessed value is higher, but that's not directly a yield issue.

Maybe you know more than me - I don't own an apartment building. Maybe you're just wrong.

As an aside, low rise garden apartments pay 16x more than SFHs in real estate taxes per acre. High rise apartments/condos pay 116x more in real estate taxes than SFH per acre. If you want more real estate taxes for schools, you want more apartment buildings. Too bad that doesn't play into your narrative.

Facts here: http://www.baconsrebellion.com/PDFs/2013/02/McKeeman.pdf [VT master's thesis, 2012. Not mine.]

Well, that is based on how many children are expected to live in an apartment building vs. a SFH . Even if they are assuming 2 children for each 2 bedroom apartment, the apartment buildings in my area seem to have WAY more children than that per apartment. So the tax is based on an assumption of "normal" living situations, not the current overcrowding of several families per apartment. A SFH might average one or two children. One garden-style apartment building in our area can fill two school buses.

What are you talking about?

Real estate taxes in Fairfax County are based on assessed value of the property. They don't assume any living situations, normal or otherwise.

Do you think I can get my real estate taxes reduced by telling the DTA that it was vacant for a year and no one lived there? The answer is no, no I can't. The tax is not based on what you think it is based on.

Where do you think the 16x and 116x comes from? Do you think those amounts are randomly selected?

[Anonymous]

Where do you think the 16x and 116x comes from? Do you think those amounts are randomly selected?

The assumption, I would guess, is units per acre. So, you are assuming that each unit has the value of a single family house--which by the way--is seldom on a one acre lot--at least mine is not. Also, the value of some may be substantial if it is in Tysons, but likely not as much value if it is on highway 1.

[Anonymous]

The assumption, I would guess, is units per acre. So, you are assuming that each unit has the value of a single family house--which by the way--is seldom on a one acre lot--at least mine is not. Also, the value of some may be substantial if it is in Tysons, but likely not as much value if it is on highway 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One PP here. I want them to be a STRONGER VOICE for change on this issue. I have only ever heard Sandy Evans, my board member, meekly and weakly speak about what is causing overcrowding issues in our schools. I know that at the end of the day they are just politicians, but even being just a BIT less politically correct would go a long way. Our student population keeps growing with little housing being added - this is a HUGE EFFING PROBLEM.

And it is not the BOS that sets student ratio yield formulas; it is FCPS.

And schools have tremendous power to track overcrowding. Three families using one address for school registration? Send it over to code enforcement to investigate. This would be a very simple cross-reference of their address database and measures like this would not require much manpower.

See Maryland tagged cars dropping off children? I see this a lot. I assume that they are car tax-dodging or undocumented immigrants taking advantage of Maryland's lax laws. They have no business having their children attending our schools. They should be going to school in Maryland, where they are paying their taxes. Set up police to ticket them. Fine them and get them OUT! Car taxes fund schools and other municipal programs.

This will really help to EDUCATE the kids! Not.

"Our student population keeps growing with little housing being added - this is a HUG EFFING PROBLEM."- Why? Besides poor housing conditions, why is this a problem for the schools? Of course if housing is added, there is more of a base to tax, but if no housing is added then values go up and taxes go up. More people into an apartment = more income generation for that apartment = that property should go up in value = it should generate more tax revenue.

Do you really want schools to turn into an arm of the police state? Maybe you do, but most people do not want that.

You are welcomed to rat out your neighbors with MD tags - VDOT's site has links to allow you to do so. Maybe you can take a couple more steps and rat out neighbors who have made improvements to their homes. Let the county know so the property values can reflect all that money they've used to make their homes nicer.

You seem to be hung up on this yield issue. Yield is used by FCPS to estimate the student load from new developments in each school boundary in order to plan facilities improvements (eg. trailers or expansions) or redistricting. Maybe FCPS is bad at this and needs to do a better job. But yield formulas have nothing to do with increasing housing stock, or increasing tax base, or anything of the sort.

Yes, of course I want the school system can work more effectively with law enforcement, the BOS, whoever. They are allotted multi billions per year, and claim ignorance to absolutely everything.

And no, older, crowded garden apartments filled with poor families bring down the cache and property values of an area, not up, but nice try. And no, more people filling up an apartment complex does not bring more revenue into an apartment complex. Each unit costs X amount of dollars to rent, whether it is to a young couple with no children, or a family with 3 children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The yield formulas impact how much real estate taxes the owners are charged, so it does make a difference.

Really? This is news to me. Do you have cites / sources?

As far as I know, Fairfax bases it real estate taxes on a base rate x (value of land + improvements), plus special charges for certain specific tax districts (like Reston CC, McLean CC, etc.). Nowhere does it talk about "yield." Now obviously a 3BR apt occupying the same sqft as a 2BR next door will have more RE taxes because its assessed value is higher, but that's not directly a yield issue.

Maybe you know more than me - I don't own an apartment building. Maybe you're just wrong.

As an aside, low rise garden apartments pay 16x more than SFHs in real estate taxes per acre. High rise apartments/condos pay 116x more in real estate taxes than SFH per acre. If you want more real estate taxes for schools, you want more apartment buildings. Too bad that doesn't play into your narrative.

Facts here: http://www.baconsrebellion.com/PDFs/2013/02/McKeeman.pdf [VT master's thesis, 2012. Not mine.]

Well, that is based on how many children are expected to live in an apartment building vs. a SFH . Even if they are assuming 2 children for each 2 bedroom apartment, the apartment buildings in my area seem to have WAY more children than that per apartment. So the tax is based on an assumption of "normal" living situations, not the current overcrowding of several families per apartment. A SFH might average one or two children. One garden-style apartment building in our area can fill two school buses.

What are you talking about?

Real estate taxes in Fairfax County are based on assessed value of the property. They don't assume any living situations, normal or otherwise.

Do you think I can get my real estate taxes reduced by telling the DTA that it was vacant for a year and no one lived there? The answer is no, no I can't. The tax is not based on what you think it is based on.

Where do you think the 16x and 116x comes from? Do you think those amounts are randomly selected?

It's called a coincidence.

The data separated 1-4 floor apartment buildings - called garden apartments - with those that are 9+ stories. You think FFX taxing pegs a 4 story at 16x and a 10 story building as 116x for tax rates? No, they don't. Taller buildings are denser and nicer generally so there more assessment dollars per acre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One PP here. I want them to be a STRONGER VOICE for change on this issue. I have only ever heard Sandy Evans, my board member, meekly and weakly speak about what is causing overcrowding issues in our schools. I know that at the end of the day they are just politicians, but even being just a BIT less politically correct would go a long way. Our student population keeps growing with little housing being added - this is a HUGE EFFING PROBLEM.

And it is not the BOS that sets student ratio yield formulas; it is FCPS.

And schools have tremendous power to track overcrowding. Three families using one address for school registration? Send it over to code enforcement to investigate. This would be a very simple cross-reference of their address database and measures like this would not require much manpower.

See Maryland tagged cars dropping off children? I see this a lot. I assume that they are car tax-dodging or undocumented immigrants taking advantage of Maryland's lax laws. They have no business having their children attending our schools. They should be going to school in Maryland, where they are paying their taxes. Set up police to ticket them. Fine them and get them OUT! Car taxes fund schools and other municipal programs.

This will really help to EDUCATE the kids! Not.

"Our student population keeps growing with little housing being added - this is a HUG EFFING PROBLEM."- Why? Besides poor housing conditions, why is this a problem for the schools? Of course if housing is added, there is more of a base to tax, but if no housing is added then values go up and taxes go up. More people into an apartment = more income generation for that apartment = that property should go up in value = it should generate more tax revenue.

Do you really want schools to turn into an arm of the police state? Maybe you do, but most people do not want that.

You are welcomed to rat out your neighbors with MD tags - VDOT's site has links to allow you to do so. Maybe you can take a couple more steps and rat out neighbors who have made improvements to their homes. Let the county know so the property values can reflect all that money they've used to make their homes nicer.

You seem to be hung up on this yield issue. Yield is used by FCPS to estimate the student load from new developments in each school boundary in order to plan facilities improvements (eg. trailers or expansions) or redistricting. Maybe FCPS is bad at this and needs to do a better job. But yield formulas have nothing to do with increasing housing stock, or increasing tax base, or anything of the sort.

Yes, of course I want the school system can work more effectively with law enforcement, the BOS, whoever. They are allotted multi billions per year, and claim ignorance to absolutely everything.

And no, older, crowded garden apartments filled with poor families bring down the cache and property values of an area, not up, but nice try. And no, more people filling up an apartment complex does not bring more revenue into an apartment complex. Each unit costs X amount of dollars to rent, whether it is to a young couple with no children, or a family with 3 children.

Weren't you complaining earlier about "illegal" overcrowding? That is more than one family in a one family unit?

I was speaking to that - if units can fit multiple families illegally, it will rent for more than units that cannot so it will bring in more revenue. You don't need to go any further than the housing market in any big city - 1BRs in NYC that can sleep a roommate in the living room via an illegal partition will rent for more than units that can be divided up by the occupants. Simple really.

And yes, an older crowded garden apartment will bring down the cache of the area. But knocking down 5 SFHs to build 20 garden apartments for poorer families will increase real estate revenues.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you are spouting a lot of myths about what multi-family housing pays vs. the burdens it places on the infrastructure.

http://www.interfaithhousingcenter.org/resources/myth_busting/

"According to the U.S. Census Bureau, rental apartments have fewer children per unit on average than owner-occupied, single-family housing; rental apartments contain a lower percent of units with one or more school aged children...

Nationwide, the effective tax rate (property tax paid relative to the market value) for multi-family complexes is significantly higher than single family homes.

[Anonymous]

I lived in a Fairfax three story condo building. My unit was assessed at a bit more than $300k. That means that me and the two stories about me were worth about a million dollars. Crammed in across the hall was another million worth of real estate. Times however many units were in the building.

Can prove it, but I have a feeling my condo building paid WAY more per square foot of land in property taxes than I am now paying on my SFH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One PP here. I want them to be a STRONGER VOICE for change on this issue. I have only ever heard Sandy Evans, my board member, meekly and weakly speak about what is causing overcrowding issues in our schools. I know that at the end of the day they are just politicians, but even being just a BIT less politically correct would go a long way. Our student population keeps growing with little housing being added - this is a HUGE EFFING PROBLEM.

And it is not the BOS that sets student ratio yield formulas; it is FCPS.

And schools have tremendous power to track overcrowding. Three families using one address for school registration? Send it over to code enforcement to investigate. This would be a very simple cross-reference of their address database and measures like this would not require much manpower.

See Maryland tagged cars dropping off children? I see this a lot. I assume that they are car tax-dodging or undocumented immigrants taking advantage of Maryland's lax laws. They have no business having their children attending our schools. They should be going to school in Maryland, where they are paying their taxes. Set up police to ticket them. Fine them and get them OUT! Car taxes fund schools and other municipal programs.

This will really help to EDUCATE the kids! Not.

"Our student population keeps growing with little housing being added - this is a HUG EFFING PROBLEM."- Why? Besides poor housing conditions, why is this a problem for the schools? Of course if housing is added, there is more of a base to tax, but if no housing is added then values go up and taxes go up. More people into an apartment = more income generation for that apartment = that property should go up in value = it should generate more tax revenue.

Do you really want schools to turn into an arm of the police state? Maybe you do, but most people do not want that.

You are welcomed to rat out your neighbors with MD tags - VDOT's site has links to allow you to do so. Maybe you can take a couple more steps and rat out neighbors who have made improvements to their homes. Let the county know so the property values can reflect all that money they've used to make their homes nicer.

You seem to be hung up on this yield issue. Yield is used by FCPS to estimate the student load from new developments in each school boundary in order to plan facilities improvements (eg. trailers or expansions) or redistricting. Maybe FCPS is bad at this and needs to do a better job. But yield formulas have nothing to do with increasing housing stock, or increasing tax base, or anything of the sort.

Yes, of course I want the school system can work more effectively with law enforcement, the BOS, whoever. They are allotted multi billions per year, and claim ignorance to absolutely everything.

And no, older, crowded garden apartments filled with poor families bring down the cache and property values of an area, not up, but nice try. And no, more people filling up an apartment complex does not bring more revenue into an apartment complex. Each unit costs X amount of dollars to rent, whether it is to a young couple with no children, or a family with 3 children.

Weren't you complaining earlier about "illegal" overcrowding? That is more than one family in a one family unit?

I was speaking to that - if units can fit multiple families illegally, it will rent for more than units that cannot so it will bring in more revenue. You don't need to go any further than the housing market in any big city - 1BRs in NYC that can sleep a roommate in the living room via an illegal partition will rent for more than units that can be divided up by the occupants. Simple really.

And yes, an older crowded garden apartment will bring down the cache of the area. But knocking down 5 SFHs to build 20 garden apartments for poorer families will increase real estate revenues.

What in the facking heck are you talking about? Do you even know how renting a room or home works?

Yes, but I see more illegal overcrowding with single family homes than apartments. Still creates problem with yield formulas, but speaks to a slightly different issue of run-down single family home communities.

And when Mr. Unscrupulous Landlord rents his 3 bedroom single family home for far above market value to several families, he pockets the change, not the county. So no, again, the greedy landlords get that extra chunk of money, and they likely live far away. There is an overcrowded house on my street, and the landlord lives in DC, happily pocketing the money he is getting from having 5 people live in his basement. The county sees none of that. His property is still worth whatever the assessed value is.

[Anonymous]

The current estimate for Fairfax County is that there are:

83,000 undocumented alien residents.

That is the government "estimate." Many feel the estimate is on the low side. And the population is steadily growing as the border has not been fixed.

[Anonymous]

Does your neighborhood pay for itself?

Mine doesn't. We live in McLean and the our neighborhood of about 40 houses are in the $800-$900 range, with half a dozen over $1.5m. 34 children attend public school- 3 special needs of which I am aware. Our neighborhood property taxes do not even cover the school costs - it has been this way since mine started 12 years ago and will continue into the future. We have 4 graduates this year and next Sept, 4 kindergarteners - an even swap. Plus, two retirees just sold their houses - so I expect more to come next year. Condos and rentals are not the only places that have burgeoning enrollments.

[Anonymous]

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dta/

Does your neighborhood pay for itself?

Mine doesn't. We live in McLean and the our neighborhood of about 40 houses are in the $800-$900 range, with half a dozen over $1.5m. 34 children attend public school- 3 special needs of which I am aware. Our neighborhood property taxes do not even cover the school costs - it has been this way since mine started 12 years ago and will continue into the future. We have 4 graduates this year and next Sept, 4 kindergarteners - an even swap. Plus, two retirees just sold their houses - so I expect more to come next year. Condos and rentals are not the only places that have burgeoning enrollments.

Wow......your neighbors don't own any cars?

Seriously, real estate taxes are not the only source of revenue in Fairfax County. Let's see: 40 houses, I would guess at LEAST 80 vehicles--and, I would imagine with the teens that there are probably a lot more. And, seeing the property value you cited, I would imagine that the cars are fairly nice. That adds up to lots of additional property tax. Add that to the real estate tax, and I suspect your neighborhood is doing its part.

Also, you do know that businesses also pay taxes?