LEMON ROAD AAP CENTER

[Anonymous]

Well, it's human nature. You don't teach the AAP kids so I'm not going to listen to you.

You don't work the corporate law matters so I'm not going to listen to you.

You don't work the oncology ward so I'm not going to listen to you.

You don't work on the TS cleared IT projects to I'm not going to listen to you.

It's life buddy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a rather dour assessment of the Lemon Road center in the new AAPAC report:

"When FCPS moved part of the AAP Center from Haycock to Lemon Road the students who were moved were all Providence District students. Consequently, several of the families actually moved so they would be back in Haycock’s attendance area while others decided not to send their children to the Center. Now the Lemon Road Center is far below critical mass of qualified students, which has been identified as 50 per grade at elementary level. This is a possible result when new AAP Centers are opened without considering the factors identified in the AAPAC decision framework."

How important is having a "critical mass" of AAP students, really? It used to be you'd go to school and there might be a "smart class," and that was good enough if you had a kid who wanted to learn and a good teacher.

I think it is important to have a critical mass - for ES, that is defined as 50 kids - or two classrooms. It allows for two AAP teachers, and therefore differing perspectives, on how the teaching should go. They can learn from each other instead of being insular and kings of their own domain.

The problem with the critical mass issue is that the Lemon Road Center only takes in 100% of the kids from Lemon Road, and those who choose to go from Shrevewood or Westgate. So it is the center or the base school - and the base schools do not have critical mass either!

LR averages less than 9 AAP kids, Shrevewood averages 25 per year and Westgate averages 15 per year. If they all went to one school you would barely meet the critical mass minimum but of course some Shrevewood and Westgate kids stay at the base school.

If Shrevewood continues its push to retain more of its kids at the base school for LLIV, it is very conceivable that Shrevewood would have a bigger AAP population than the Center. Shrevewood sent 100% kids - when it did not offer LLIV - then 50% then 25%. Who knows what next year will bring.

I would not be surprised if LR has more 'principal placed' AAP kids from its own student body in order to fill out the Center seats and make itself look viable.

Where does Freedom Hill send their students? It made no sense to make Lemon Road a center and then also allow the other schools to start LLIV programs at the same time. I can't remember that ever happening in FCPS before. They have put AAP centers in smaller or underperforming schools before but then the schools feeding into it, didn't become LLIV programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, it's human nature. You don't teach the AAP kids so I'm not going to listen to you.

You don't work the corporate law matters so I'm not going to listen to you.

You don't work the oncology ward so I'm not going to listen to you.

You don't work on the TS cleared IT projects to I'm not going to listen to you.

It's life buddy.

Barf. I'd need to see something more compelling to believe that the education of a LLIV-eligible student will suffer if he or she isn't attending a school with at least 150-200 AAP kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a rather dour assessment of the Lemon Road center in the new AAPAC report:

"When FCPS moved part of the AAP Center from Haycock to Lemon Road the students who were moved were all Providence District students. Consequently, several of the families actually moved so they would be back in Haycock’s attendance area while others decided not to send their children to the Center. Now the Lemon Road Center is far below critical mass of qualified students, which has been identified as 50 per grade at elementary level. This is a possible result when new AAP Centers are opened without considering the factors identified in the AAPAC decision framework."

How important is having a "critical mass" of AAP students, really? It used to be you'd go to school and there might be a "smart class," and that was good enough if you had a kid who wanted to learn and a good teacher.

I think it is important to have a critical mass - for ES, that is defined as 50 kids - or two classrooms. It allows for two AAP teachers, and therefore differing perspectives, on how the teaching should go. They can learn from each other instead of being insular and kings of their own domain.

The problem with the critical mass issue is that the Lemon Road Center only takes in 100% of the kids from Lemon Road, and those who choose to go from Shrevewood or Westgate. So it is the center or the base school - and the base schools do not have critical mass either!

LR averages less than 9 AAP kids, Shrevewood averages 25 per year and Westgate averages 15 per year. If they all went to one school you would barely meet the critical mass minimum but of course some Shrevewood and Westgate kids stay at the base school.

If Shrevewood continues its push to retain more of its kids at the base school for LLIV, it is very conceivable that Shrevewood would have a bigger AAP population than the Center. Shrevewood sent 100% kids - when it did not offer LLIV - then 50% then 25%. Who knows what next year will bring.

I would not be surprised if LR has more 'principal placed' AAP kids from its own student body in order to fill out the Center seats and make itself look viable.

Where does Freedom Hill send their students? It made no sense to make Lemon Road a center and then also allow the other schools to start LLIV programs at the same time. I can't remember that ever happening in FCPS before. They have put AAP centers in smaller or underperforming schools before but then the schools feeding into it, didn't become LLIV programs.

50% are at Westbriar AAP; 50% stay in LLIV at Freedom Hill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, it's human nature. You don't teach the AAP kids so I'm not going to listen to you.

You don't work the corporate law matters so I'm not going to listen to you.

You don't work the oncology ward so I'm not going to listen to you.

You don't work on the TS cleared IT projects to I'm not going to listen to you.

It's life buddy.

Barf. I'd need to see something more compelling to believe that the education of a LLIV-eligible student will suffer if he or she isn't attending a school with at least 150-200 AAP kids.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a rather dour assessment of the Lemon Road center in the new AAPAC report:

"When FCPS moved part of the AAP Center from Haycock to Lemon Road the students who were moved were all Providence District students. Consequently, several of the families actually moved so they would be back in Haycock’s attendance area while others decided not to send their children to the Center. Now the Lemon Road Center is far below critical mass of qualified students, which has been identified as 50 per grade at elementary level. This is a possible result when new AAP Centers are opened without considering the factors identified in the AAPAC decision framework."

How important is having a "critical mass" of AAP students, really? It used to be you'd go to school and there might be a "smart class," and that was good enough if you had a kid who wanted to learn and a good teacher.

I think it is important to have a critical mass - for ES, that is defined as 50 kids - or two classrooms. It allows for two AAP teachers, and therefore differing perspectives, on how the teaching should go. They can learn from each other instead of being insular and kings of their own domain.

The problem with the critical mass issue is that the Lemon Road Center only takes in 100% of the kids from Lemon Road, and those who choose to go from Shrevewood or Westgate. So it is the center or the base school - and the base schools do not have critical mass either!

LR averages less than 9 AAP kids, Shrevewood averages 25 per year and Westgate averages 15 per year. If they all went to one school you would barely meet the critical mass minimum but of course some Shrevewood and Westgate kids stay at the base school.

If Shrevewood continues its push to retain more of its kids at the base school for LLIV, it is very conceivable that Shrevewood would have a bigger AAP population than the Center. Shrevewood sent 100% kids - when it did not offer LLIV - then 50% then 25%. Who knows what next year will bring.

I would not be surprised if LR has more 'principal placed' AAP kids from its own student body in order to fill out the Center seats and make itself look viable.

Where does Freedom Hill send their students? It made no sense to make Lemon Road a center and then also allow the other schools to start LLIV programs at the same time. I can't remember that ever happening in FCPS before. They have put AAP centers in smaller or underperforming schools before but then the schools feeding into it, didn't become LLIV programs.

50% are at Westbriar AAP; 50% stay in LLIV at Freedom Hill.

Part of what caused the current imbalance at Lemon Road was the initially Westbriar, Stenwood and Freedom Hill, I believe, were slated to go to Lemon Road. But Westbriar AAP-aspirational parents in particular fought to make Westbriar a center for two reasons. 1. Their kids wouldn't have to be bused to a less desirable neighborhood (they'll claim the distance was too far, but some of the buses from Stenwood and others feeders to Westbriar were taking close to an hour. ) And, 2. So Westbriar would jump to the head of the cue to get a fancy new addition. It was really kind of sickening, actually. Basically a bunch of haves, making sure they got what they wanted, while less activist parents at Lemon Road were stuck accepting it as good. You can bet Westbriar has more than a critical mass of AAP students now. Actually, Westbriar, like Wolftrap, would be better off being a self-contained LLIV, but then parents would get to brag about the center label. I

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Part of what caused the current imbalance at Lemon Road was the initially Westbriar, Stenwood and Freedom Hill, I believe, were slated to go to Lemon Road. But Westbriar AAP-aspirational parents in particular fought to make Westbriar a center for two reasons. 1. Their kids wouldn't have to be bused to a less desirable neighborhood (they'll claim the distance was too far, but some of the buses from Stenwood and others feeders to Westbriar were taking close to an hour. ) And, 2. So Westbriar would jump to the head of the cue to get a fancy new addition. It was really kind of sickening, actually. Basically a bunch of haves, making sure they got what they wanted, while less activist parents at Lemon Road were stuck accepting it as good. You can bet Westbriar has more than a critical mass of AAP students now. Actually, Westbriar, like Wolftrap, would be better off being a self-contained LLIV, but then parents would get to brag about the center label. I

I'm not sure I agree with this.

Lemon Road is a neighborhood in Falls Church zoned for McLean HS that's more expensive than the Tysons Woods neighborhood where Westbriar is located. Maybe you're referring to other neighborhoods that feed into Lemon Road on the other side of Pimmit Run or Route 7. Also, if Stenwood kids weren't going to Westbriar before the center was opened, how would they have known it might take an hour.

As I recall, there were a lot of Westbriar parents who didn't want an AAP center at their school. If they are "haves," they haven't always been treated kindly by FCPS in terms of school assignments. Students in the "Westbriar Island" area have to pass by Colvin Run on their way to Westbriar, and they're zoned for Marshall even though they're closer to Madison.

It seems to me the biggest issue is the one that's been previously flagged - opening new centers and adding LLIV to nearby schools at more or less the same time without much information to know who'd end up going to the center and who'd stay at the base school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Part of what caused the current imbalance at Lemon Road was the initially Westbriar, Stenwood and Freedom Hill, I believe, were slated to go to Lemon Road. But Westbriar AAP-aspirational parents in particular fought to make Westbriar a center for two reasons. 1. Their kids wouldn't have to be bused to a less desirable neighborhood (they'll claim the distance was too far, but some of the buses from Stenwood and others feeders to Westbriar were taking close to an hour. ) And, 2. So Westbriar would jump to the head of the cue to get a fancy new addition. It was really kind of sickening, actually. Basically a bunch of haves, making sure they got what they wanted, while less activist parents at Lemon Road were stuck accepting it as good. You can bet Westbriar has more than a critical mass of AAP students now. Actually, Westbriar, like Wolftrap, would be better off being a self-contained LLIV, but then parents would get to brag about the center label. I

I'm not sure I agree with this.

Lemon Road is a neighborhood in Falls Church zoned for McLean HS that's more expensive than the Tysons Woods neighborhood where Westbriar is located. Maybe you're referring to other neighborhoods that feed into Lemon Road on the other side of Pimmit Run or Route 7. Also, if Stenwood kids weren't going to Westbriar before the center was opened, how would they have known it might take an hour.

As I recall, there were a lot of Westbriar parents who didn't want an AAP center at their school. If they are "haves," they haven't always been treated kindly by FCPS in terms of school assignments. Students in the "Westbriar Island" area have to pass by Colvin Run on their way to Westbriar, and they're zoned for Marshall even though they're closer to Madison.

It seems to me the biggest issue is the one that's been previously flagged - opening new centers and adding LLIV to nearby schools at more or less the same time without much information to know who'd end up going to the center and who'd stay at the base school.

I was involved in the AAP center change and yes, Westbriar parents and the principal fought to get their school to be an AAP center. There were some parents opposed but many were for the change. Other schools were being considered to take the pressure off Louise Archer and Haycock, but only Westbriar asked for their school to be a center. Then the Stenwood, Shrevewood, and Westgate parents and principals asked if they could have LLIV at their schools. I have no idea why. There are less than 10 students in AAP in any grade at most of those schools. There is a small pocket of Lemon Road that goes to Mclean but the majority of the school feeds to Marshall. Previously the AAP center for Shrevewood and Westgate was Haycock which was definitely in the Mclean pyramid, so obviously having Mclean students as part of the mix wasn't a problem in years past. The AAP center for Stenwood and Freedom Hill was Louise Archer which is mainly Madison kids. I fully understood why Westbriar parents didn't want to send their children to Lemon Road. It is very far. Freedom Hill and Stenwood made no sense though, particularly Stenwood which is much closer to Lemon Road than Westbriar. But those parents fought for Westbriar because it was in a better neighborhood. This I think was a mistake on their part mainly because Westbriar splits half to Madison and half to Marshall, so these students are now with kids who they won't go to high school with. If they are on a bus for an hour it is entirely of their choosing. Petition to have those students go to Lemon Road over Westbriar in the future and your problem will be solved.

[Anonymous]

Why does Lemon Road have a center when Shrevewood has more AAP kids from its base population?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does Lemon Road have a center when Shrevewood has more AAP kids from its base population?

I believe it's because Lemon Road was slated for a renovation/addition already, whereas Shrevewood is busting at the seams and yet not even on the CIP list. But feel free to correct me if I am wrong here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Part of what caused the current imbalance at Lemon Road was the initially Westbriar, Stenwood and Freedom Hill, I believe, were slated to go to Lemon Road. But Westbriar AAP-aspirational parents in particular fought to make Westbriar a center for two reasons. 1. Their kids wouldn't have to be bused to a less desirable neighborhood (they'll claim the distance was too far, but some of the buses from Stenwood and others feeders to Westbriar were taking close to an hour. ) And, 2. So Westbriar would jump to the head of the cue to get a fancy new addition. It was really kind of sickening, actually. Basically a bunch of haves, making sure they got what they wanted, while less activist parents at Lemon Road were stuck accepting it as good. You can bet Westbriar has more than a critical mass of AAP students now. Actually, Westbriar, like Wolftrap, would be better off being a self-contained LLIV, but then parents would get to brag about the center label. I

I'm not sure I agree with this.

Lemon Road is a neighborhood in Falls Church zoned for McLean HS that's more expensive than the Tysons Woods neighborhood where Westbriar is located. Maybe you're referring to other neighborhoods that feed into Lemon Road on the other side of Pimmit Run or Route 7. Also, if Stenwood kids weren't going to Westbriar before the center was opened, how would they have known it might take an hour.

As I recall, there were a lot of Westbriar parents who didn't want an AAP center at their school. If they are "haves," they haven't always been treated kindly by FCPS in terms of school assignments. Students in the "Westbriar Island" area have to pass by Colvin Run on their way to Westbriar, and they're zoned for Marshall even though they're closer to Madison.

It seems to me the biggest issue is the one that's been previously flagged - opening new centers and adding LLIV to nearby schools at more or less the same time without much information to know who'd end up going to the center and who'd stay at the base school.

I was involved in the AAP center change and yes, Westbriar parents and the principal fought to get their school to be an AAP center. There were some parents opposed but many were for the change. Other schools were being considered to take the pressure off Louise Archer and Haycock, but only Westbriar asked for their school to be a center. Then the Stenwood, Shrevewood, and Westgate parents and principals asked if they could have LLIV at their schools. I have no idea why. There are less than 10 students in AAP in any grade at most of those schools. There is a small pocket of Lemon Road that goes to Mclean but the majority of the school feeds to Marshall. Previously the AAP center for Shrevewood and Westgate was Haycock which was definitely in the Mclean pyramid, so obviously having Mclean students as part of the mix wasn't a problem in years past. The AAP center for Stenwood and Freedom Hill was Louise Archer which is mainly Madison kids. I fully understood why Westbriar parents didn't want to send their children to Lemon Road. It is very far. Freedom Hill and Stenwood made no sense though, particularly Stenwood which is much closer to Lemon Road than Westbriar. But those parents fought for Westbriar because it was in a better neighborhood. This I think was a mistake on their part mainly because Westbriar splits half to Madison and half to Marshall, so these students are now with kids who they won't go to high school with. If they are on a bus for an hour it is entirely of their choosing. Petition to have those students go to Lemon Road over Westbriar in the future and your problem will be solved.

Westbriar is about an 80-20% Marshall-Madison split, not 50-50%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Part of what caused the current imbalance at Lemon Road was the initially Westbriar, Stenwood and Freedom Hill, I believe, were slated to go to Lemon Road. But Westbriar AAP-aspirational parents in particular fought to make Westbriar a center for two reasons. 1. Their kids wouldn't have to be bused to a less desirable neighborhood (they'll claim the distance was too far, but some of the buses from Stenwood and others feeders to Westbriar were taking close to an hour. ) And, 2. So Westbriar would jump to the head of the cue to get a fancy new addition. It was really kind of sickening, actually. Basically a bunch of haves, making sure they got what they wanted, while less activist parents at Lemon Road were stuck accepting it as good. You can bet Westbriar has more than a critical mass of AAP students now. Actually, Westbriar, like Wolftrap, would be better off being a self-contained LLIV, but then parents would get to brag about the center label. I

I'm not sure I agree with this.

Lemon Road is a neighborhood in Falls Church zoned for McLean HS that's more expensive than the Tysons Woods neighborhood where Westbriar is located. Maybe you're referring to other neighborhoods that feed into Lemon Road on the other side of Pimmit Run or Route 7. Also, if Stenwood kids weren't going to Westbriar before the center was opened, how would they have known it might take an hour.

As I recall, there were a lot of Westbriar parents who didn't want an AAP center at their school. If they are "haves," they haven't always been treated kindly by FCPS in terms of school assignments. Students in the "Westbriar Island" area have to pass by Colvin Run on their way to Westbriar, and they're zoned for Marshall even though they're closer to Madison.

It seems to me the biggest issue is the one that's been previously flagged - opening new centers and adding LLIV to nearby schools at more or less the same time without much information to know who'd end up going to the center and who'd stay at the base school.

I was involved in the AAP center change and yes, Westbriar parents and the principal fought to get their school to be an AAP center. There were some parents opposed but many were for the change. Other schools were being considered to take the pressure off Louise Archer and Haycock, but only Westbriar asked for their school to be a center. Then the Stenwood, Shrevewood, and Westgate parents and principals asked if they could have LLIV at their schools. I have no idea why. There are less than 10 students in AAP in any grade at most of those schools. There is a small pocket of Lemon Road that goes to Mclean but the majority of the school feeds to Marshall. Previously the AAP center for Shrevewood and Westgate was Haycock which was definitely in the Mclean pyramid, so obviously having Mclean students as part of the mix wasn't a problem in years past. The AAP center for Stenwood and Freedom Hill was Louise Archer which is mainly Madison kids. I fully understood why Westbriar parents didn't want to send their children to Lemon Road. It is very far. Freedom Hill and Stenwood made no sense though, particularly Stenwood which is much closer to Lemon Road than Westbriar. But those parents fought for Westbriar because it was in a better neighborhood. This I think was a mistake on their part mainly because Westbriar splits half to Madison and half to Marshall, so these students are now with kids who they won't go to high school with. If they are on a bus for an hour it is entirely of their choosing. Petition to have those students go to Lemon Road over Westbriar in the future and your problem will be solved.

Westbriar is about an 80-20% Marshall-Madison split, not 50-50%.

I thought it was closer. More like 2/3 Marshall. Isn't Lemon Road similarly split though?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Part of what caused the current imbalance at Lemon Road was the initially Westbriar, Stenwood and Freedom Hill, I believe, were slated to go to Lemon Road. But Westbriar AAP-aspirational parents in particular fought to make Westbriar a center for two reasons. 1. Their kids wouldn't have to be bused to a less desirable neighborhood (they'll claim the distance was too far, but some of the buses from Stenwood and others feeders to Westbriar were taking close to an hour. ) And, 2. So Westbriar would jump to the head of the cue to get a fancy new addition. It was really kind of sickening, actually. Basically a bunch of haves, making sure they got what they wanted, while less activist parents at Lemon Road were stuck accepting it as good. You can bet Westbriar has more than a critical mass of AAP students now. Actually, Westbriar, like Wolftrap, would be better off being a self-contained LLIV, but then parents would get to brag about the center label. I

I'm not sure I agree with this.

Lemon Road is a neighborhood in Falls Church zoned for McLean HS that's more expensive than the Tysons Woods neighborhood where Westbriar is located. Maybe you're referring to other neighborhoods that feed into Lemon Road on the other side of Pimmit Run or Route 7. Also, if Stenwood kids weren't going to Westbriar before the center was opened, how would they have known it might take an hour.

As I recall, there were a lot of Westbriar parents who didn't want an AAP center at their school. If they are "haves," they haven't always been treated kindly by FCPS in terms of school assignments. Students in the "Westbriar Island" area have to pass by Colvin Run on their way to Westbriar, and they're zoned for Marshall even though they're closer to Madison.

It seems to me the biggest issue is the one that's been previously flagged - opening new centers and adding LLIV to nearby schools at more or less the same time without much information to know who'd end up going to the center and who'd stay at the base school.

I was involved in the AAP center change and yes, Westbriar parents and the principal fought to get their school to be an AAP center. There were some parents opposed but many were for the change. Other schools were being considered to take the pressure off Louise Archer and Haycock, but only Westbriar asked for their school to be a center. Then the Stenwood, Shrevewood, and Westgate parents and principals asked if they could have LLIV at their schools. I have no idea why. There are less than 10 students in AAP in any grade at most of those schools. There is a small pocket of Lemon Road that goes to Mclean but the majority of the school feeds to Marshall. Previously the AAP center for Shrevewood and Westgate was Haycock which was definitely in the Mclean pyramid, so obviously having Mclean students as part of the mix wasn't a problem in years past. The AAP center for Stenwood and Freedom Hill was Louise Archer which is mainly Madison kids. I fully understood why Westbriar parents didn't want to send their children to Lemon Road. It is very far. Freedom Hill and Stenwood made no sense though, particularly Stenwood which is much closer to Lemon Road than Westbriar. But those parents fought for Westbriar because it was in a better neighborhood. This I think was a mistake on their part mainly because Westbriar splits half to Madison and half to Marshall, so these students are now with kids who they won't go to high school with. If they are on a bus for an hour it is entirely of their choosing. Petition to have those students go to Lemon Road over Westbriar in the future and your problem will be solved.

Westbriar is about an 80-20% Marshall-Madison split, not 50-50%.

I thought it was closer. More like 2/3 Marshall. Isn't Lemon Road similarly split though?

The only part of Westbriar that goes to Madison is an area south of Old Courthouse Road near Cardinal Hill Swim & Racquet, and one street north of Old Courthouse (Westbriar Court) that's in the Town of Vienna. The rest is Marshall.

Lemon Road is 85-15% Marshall/McLean. Even though geographically almost half of Lemon Road's catchment area is zoned for McLean, that area doesn't send many kids to LR compared to the areas zoned for Marshall (1/2 of Pimmit Hills and a bunch of townhouses and apartments on the other side of Route 7). All of the AAP kids at LR from Shrevewood and most of the AAP kids at LR from Westgate are zoned for Marshall, too.

[Anonymous]

So then Lemon Road has a slightly higher percentage zoned for Marshall than Westbriar. Either school seems fine for Stenwood or Freedom Hill based on percentage of kids headed for Marshall.

[Anonymous]

If I remember correctly, there was a bit of "Lemon Road isn't good enough for us" from the Westbriar AAP parents. I think, but am not sure, that it stemmed from the redistricting of the "low income" FH kids there. It was couched in terms of distance, but that was a facade.

I don't know, but suspect, the FH and Stenwood parents wanted to be at Westbriar because those kids had all been together at LA. The parents all knew each other. During that whole debate, there were two groups (the LA parents and the Haycock parents) who kind of worked side by side but were never fully integrated. Also, keep in mind, the LA families were grandfathered, whereas the Haycock families were not. I suspect the LA families wanted to keep their distance from the LR center so they could get grandfathered and not get swept in with the Haycock families who had virtually no chance to be grandfathered (and ultimately weren't).