Those opposed to "gay marriage" will you explain your position to me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Religion may not play any role at all for someone opposing gay marriage. Non religious persons. atheists, oppose gay marriage.

Maybe, but on what grounds? All the reasons cited on this thread are religious. What is a non-religious reason to oppose gay marriage? (I'm not counting the earlier PP who said s/he was against it essentially because it is "gross" -- because that is really not a reason to oppose it, since the "gross" act can take place with or without a marriage.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't scapegoat Islam because you're mad about what marriage is and is not. That's sort of a cheap shot. I'm Catholic and fully know that God is in charge... Of you too.

I'm not "scapegoating Islam." I'm merely pointing out that running a government under what you perceive to be God's laws is called Sharia. "To Arabic-speaking people, sharia (/????ri???/; also shari'a, shar??ah; Arabic: ?????? šar??ah, IPA: [?a?ri??a], "legislation") means the moral code and religious law of a prophetic religion."
- Wikipedia

It's funny how you liberals turn into bigots when people don't fall lock step into your beliefs. You took a shot at Islam. Anyone reading this can see and now you're back-peddling. You're as narrow-minded as the Sharia law you made fun of.

Reading comprehension. She actually took a shot at Christianity, using conservative Christians' bleating about Sharia law as a sarcastic comparator. As in, if Catholics insist that everyone define marriage based on Catholic beliefs, that's just the same as Muslims in Sharia law countries requiring that everyone obey Islamic law whether they are Muslim or not.

Thank you, that's exactly what I was doing. I find it deliciously ironic that the same people that relentlessly fear and decry Sharia law are always the ones who would love to institute the Christian version here themselves. God, Allah - potato, potahto.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Religion may not play any role at all for someone opposing gay marriage. Non religious persons. atheists, oppose gay marriage.

Really? Pretty sure you are just making that up. I.m sure you'll find some dumbass who probably also thinks he was visited by aliens. But come on.,..

[Anonymous]

NP: please can any of those of you who are using the bible to justify your opposition to gay marriage please address the question raised by other posters about some of the other things that the bible says which are not common practice these days like taking multiple wives or marrying someone you have raped to eradicate the sin?

How is it possible to selectively pick which bits of the bible we must obey to the letter? And if that really is ok to pick and choose, can you explain why you choose to accept the language on marriage only being between the sexes?

It's just that it strikes me that some people are hiding behind religion to justify bigoted ideas. If this is wrong, can you explain why to me please?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't scapegoat Islam because you're mad about what marriage is and is not. That's sort of a cheap shot. I'm Catholic and fully know that God is in charge... Of you too.

I'm not "scapegoating Islam." I'm merely pointing out that running a government under what you perceive to be God's laws is called Sharia. "To Arabic-speaking people, sharia (/????ri???/; also shari'a, shar??ah; Arabic: ?????? šar??ah, IPA: [?a?ri??a], "legislation") means the moral code and religious law of a prophetic religion."
- Wikipedia

One's perception of God's laws are irrelevant. They're spelled out in the Bible and, as annoying as it may be, can't be changed by man. You're being a non-believer doesn't some how protect you from responsible for respecting it. That's a choice you make. So be it. A marriage is still between a man and a woman.

NP here. That is your position. Nothing more. And it is increasingly irrelevant.

Eighteen countries and many of our States recognize marriages between same sex partners.

You're entitled to feel that way and every country on earth might agree with that. None of that trumps the Bible. Man doesn't decide what a marriage is, God does. It's between a man and a woman and always will be.

you're the one who will burned up. Pun intended. That said, man kind can say whatever it wants when it wants. It will never usurp the authority of Christ. Bottomline, marriage is between a man and a woman.

Except in the states where its not. Bet that just burns you up

[Anonymous]

Christ would have stood in the way of love?

[Anonymous]

OP, I'll try to answer your question. There was a thread on this a year or two ago and I laid out my position and ended up in a fairly respectful discussion with one or two PPs as the nastiness raged on around it. I'm not going to take on nastiness, but here's my position since I"m going to assume you honestly asked.

First, I don't believe the Equal Protection clause is valid here. Obviously, the Supreme Court disagreed with me, and they make the laws of the land and I don't. But, here's my take. Every adult man or woman able to consent has always been able to get married in this country. However, that right was proscribed in certain ways - man & woman. Only one man & one woman (i.e. not polygamy). Not with immediate blood relatives. Not with a minor. Not with an animal or inanimate object. Not being able to marry someone of the same sex is not the same as not being allowed to get married.

Anyway, here's what continues to be in my mind. It's really only been in the last century or so, and even then not worldwide, that marriage has been a joining of a man and woman based on love and love alone. Throughout all of history, and even today in many places, marriage has taken place for reasons not related to love, reasons such as wealth and power. Dowries, arranged marriages, marriages between clans or tribes to strengthen political ties, men marrying multiple wives, etc have all been behind marriage. With very few exceptions however, throughout all cultures in all of history, marriage has almost always been between males and females. Even in cultures where gay relationships were accepted typically did not define those relationships as marriage. And, I think there must be a reason for that.

Call it God, call it nature, call it something else, I find it compelling that our human history has this thread woven through it and there must be a reason. As a result, I'm unwilling to simply jump on a bandwagon and say that if you want to get married, get married regardless of what that marriage looks like (different sex, same sex, polyamory, and so on) because I feel as if there's something underpinning the stability of our society that comes from that traditional construct.

Maybe I'm right and one hundred or five hundred years from now we'll see the folly in the move towards allowing gay marriage. And maybe I'm wrong. But, to answer your question, that's where my stance on gay marriage comes from.

[Anonymous]

I'm a Christian and I'm also gay and married. I got married to my wife in our Church, I am so thankful that not all Christians use the bible as a reason to deny me the same civil rights that you have. I can now call my wife my wife. If we only had a civil union I couldn't do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Christian and I'm also gay and married. I got married to my wife in our Church, I am so thankful that not all Christians use the bible as a reason to deny me the same civil rights that you have. I can now call my wife my wife. If we only had a civil union I couldn't do that.

im sorry, but marrying a woman is not allowed in the Christian faith. And any house building that allows it is not a house of God or a Church. Christianity isn't about making sure people get to do whatever they want though we've developed into a culture where man has decided to usurp Christ. So, now a woman can come on here with a straight face and say she married another woman in the Church. That's simply not true. You and a group of witnesses stood in some building and you put a ring on some woman's finger. That is not nor could it ever be a marriage. Even if I was a proponent of "gay marriage" and wanted to make you happy, you would still not have a marriage. It's impossible and my views, your views and no one's view can change that. Christ is in charge here, not the changing whim of man.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please don't scapegoat Islam because you're mad about what marriage is and is not. That's sort of a cheap shot. I'm Catholic and fully know that God is in charge... Of you too.

I'm not "scapegoating Islam." I'm merely pointing out that running a government under what you perceive to be God's laws is called Sharia. "To Arabic-speaking people, sharia (/????ri???/; also shari'a, shar??ah; Arabic: ?????? šar??ah, IPA: [?a?ri??a], "legislation") means the moral code and religious law of a prophetic religion."
- Wikipedia

It's funny how you liberals turn into bigots when people don't fall lock step into your beliefs. You took a shot at Islam. Anyone reading this can see and now you're back-peddling. You're as narrow-minded as the Sharia law you made fun of.

Reading comprehension. She actually took a shot at Christianity, using conservative Christians' bleating about Sharia law as a sarcastic comparator. As in, if Catholics insist that everyone define marriage based on Catholic beliefs, that's just the same as Muslims in Sharia law countries requiring that everyone obey Islamic law whether they are Muslim or not.

Thank you, that's exactly what I was doing. I find it deliciously ironic that the same people that relentlessly fear and decry Sharia law are always the ones who would love to institute the Christian version here themselves. God, Allah - potato, potahto.

When Christians start hanging gay people from cranes and pushing them off buildings en mass, let me know. And makes sure you show me how the law in this country would support it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Will you please explain outside of religion, why you would want the government from keeping two consenting adults from getting married?

I'm excluding religion, because that isn't part of the argument. We have freedom of religion in America and no one is asking to force churches to marry them.

I'm talking about something that American citizens have the privileged of, why would you want to deny that to any other American citizen?

I seriously want to understand your viewpoint because I don't. Educate me?

I can tell you this:

It's unconstitutional to have a marriage law - for or against - on a Federal level.

On a state level, that would depend on how the people vote, and whether or not the result is constitutional on a state and/or federal level.

People have their own personal reasons for their vote, and that is part of being a free people.

One can change tax law, hospital visitation laws, etc. to right the wrongs of two gay people who are together. But you can't force person A to like person B.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If only you kept it behind closed doors, I wouldn't care. It's shoving it in my face that I find repulsive. Has nothing to do with your faith, OP.

Okay - give us some examples of "shoving it in your face." And do you care if people don't keep their straight marriage behind closed doors?

Not the PP, but I would object to heterosexual people having sex on my lawn as much as homosexual people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Christian and I'm also gay and married. I got married to my wife in our Church, I am so thankful that not all Christians use the bible as a reason to deny me the same civil rights that you have. I can now call my wife my wife. If we only had a civil union I couldn't do that.

im sorry, but marrying a woman is not allowed in the Christian faith. And any house building that allows it is not a house of God or a Church. Christianity isn't about making sure people get to do whatever they want though we've developed into a culture where man has decided to usurp Christ. So, now a woman can come on here with a straight face and say she married another woman in the Church. That's simply not true. You and a group of witnesses stood in some building and you put a ring on some woman's finger. That is not nor could it ever be a marriage. Even if I was a proponent of "gay marriage" and wanted to make you happy, you would still not have a marriage. It's impossible and my views, your views and no one's view can change that. Christ is in charge here, not the changing whim of man.

You know there is no monolithic Christianity and different branches have different beliefs, right? I'm not even Christian and I know that. So just because your branch doesn't allow it, doesn't mean it can't be sanctioned elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Will you please explain outside of religion, why you would want the government from keeping two consenting adults from getting married?

I'm excluding religion, because that isn't part of the argument. We have freedom of religion in America and no one is asking to force churches to marry them.

I'm talking about something that American citizens have the privileged of, why would you want to deny that to any other American citizen?

I seriously want to understand your viewpoint because I don't. Educate me?

Lesbian here. The best way to reduce gay sex is to promote gay marriage, if the pattern set by heterosexuals is anything to go by. Our federal taxes went up a bunch when the feds recognized us. So there are two reasons gay marriage, like straight marriage, isn't all sunshine. But I'm so glad on the balance that we are moving toward full marriage equality and that my wife and I are married, especially because we have a child.

This is the most well-thought out reason I've seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If only you kept it behind closed doors, I wouldn't care. It's shoving it in my face that I find repulsive. Has nothing to do with your faith, OP.

Okay - give us some examples of "shoving it in your face." And do you care if people don't keep their straight marriage behind closed doors?

Not the PP, but I would object to heterosexual people having sex on my lawn as much as homosexual people.

I am that PP, and I agree 100%.