Those opposed to "gay marriage" will you explain your position to me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And especially in our country where marriage is a social contract legitimized by the government, with special advantages conferred by the government. If you don't need to be religious to get married -- and you don't -- then we have no business defining marriage in religious terms.

this. a miliion times this.

we're not religious. We weren't married in a church, although the marriage coordinator who married us on a beach was an "ordained minister." According to the gov't, we have a marriage. We have two beautiful girls. Are they not as legitimate as those who got married in a church?

This is why we need to separate the religious from the civil here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: please can any of those of you who are using the bible to justify your opposition to gay marriage please address the question raised by other posters about some of the other things that the bible says which are not common practice these days like taking multiple wives or marrying someone you have raped to eradicate the sin?

How is it possible to selectively pick which bits of the bible we must obey to the letter? And if that really is ok to pick and choose, can you explain why you choose to accept the language on marriage only being between the sexes?

It's just that it strikes me that some people are hiding behind religion to justify bigoted ideas. If this is wrong, can you explain why to me please?

Why are none of the people citing religion to explain their opposition answering this question? Could someone to so please?

Still interested in an answer to this please. Or else I will assume that, you know, actually you just use the religion excuse selectively because it helps justify your bigoted beliefs.

it seems to me that you're using an argument that says "there's other bad stuff in the Bible" so this should be okay. Why would items you perceive as objectionable in the Bible make homosexuality okay? It doesn't. Scripture is absolutely clear about the abomination of homosexuality. I'm sure some murderers would say murder must be okay because the Bible okays rape. Sorry, murder is not okay. Just to clear the Bible does not okay rape. Non-believers who provide their interpretation don't do it in context. You have to have the proper frame of mind and be true in heart and fidelity. Progressive nihilists with axes to grind with their existence are neither. They want a world where they are at the center. Oh, the unhappiness they are bound to have. Indulging in homosexuality and promiscuity always leads to emptiness.

NP here. I think the PP was trying to get someone to discuss why they pick out some rules from the Bible to follow but not others. If you eat pork, why do you think that's okay when the Bible clearly says it isn't okay to eat pigs?

See, here's the thing: rape and murder are about violence towards another human being. So even if the Bible didn't say a single word about them, they would be wrong. Gay marriage is about two human beings who willingly promise to love each other. I see no one else hurt by two men or two women choosing to live out their lives together as a couple. And if you say God is hurt, well, that is your belief and you are free not to marry someone of the same sex. But this country is not a theocracy. I don't believe in your God and you can't force me to live by your God's rules.

We don't prohibit people from eating pigs because the Bible says it is wrong and offends God. Nor do we outlaw cursing using God's name, or not going to church/temple every week, or depicting God in paintings or drawings, or even adultery just because they're forbidden in the 10 commandments.

In fact, I'd say if you are going to forbid gay marriage based on your biblical beliefs, then you'd better outlaw divorce and lock up any married person who has an affair. Are you prepared to do that? If not, please explain why.

I am the original PP you quoted and test that is exactly what I was getting at. If it is ok to discard something the bible says (wearing mixed fabrics, eating pork etc), then why are you choosing to adhere to what it says on homosexuality. As it happens, I am a Christian. But the god that I believe in is a loving and kind god not one who hates and encourages others to hate.

I am not the original PP and, in fact, am not even Christian. But I'll bite, sort of -- I don't think that it's so wrong to discard some things the Bible says and not others. As an example in my own life, we are Jewish but my family doesn't keep kosher, nor do we refrain from all work on Shabbat (the Sabbath). However, we do attend synagogue regularly, fast on Yom Kippur, keep the Passover eating requirements strictly, and otherwise consider ourselves Jews. I don't consider it silly to fast on Yom Kippur just because I don't keep kosher. Different aspects of religion, and different rules, speak to different people.

So I do understand the viewpoint that some people believe their religion prohibits gay marriage. (That's really the only justifiable prohibition I can think of.) However, I disagree with their attempts to impose their views on others, especially others who don't share their religion. And especially in our country where marriage is a social contract legitimized by the government, with special advantages conferred by the government. If you don't need to be religious to get married -- and you don't -- then we have no business defining marriage in religious terms.

I don't think anyone actually said it's wrong to discard some things from the Bible and not others. The point is that if you pick and choose what to follow from the Bible, then others for whom the Bible is a sacred text get to pick and choose from it, too, and you can't complain about that without being called a hypocrite. That is what is being emphasized here.

But I think all of us except the extremists agree that we don't have a theocracy, so the Bible doesn't get to make our laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because gays are the ultimate narcissists, informing them that they're hurting children is unlikely to sway them. They can't be helped. Just pray for their children. God will handle the rest.

Okay! Why don't you let God handle it, then, and leave us alone and let us live our lives and protect our families? Thanks!

you don't have a family. You're damaged goods with the illusion of family in a more and more base culture. I feel bad for you and even worse for your children. May God protect them. Their only true father is Jesus, not you. Cursed is the day you became a parent. But, don't worry. Every dog has their day. When your adult children come forth to confront you for stealing a normal life from them, you'll get yours. What they'll probably do is just walk away from you. Narcissists can't be changed. Children of gay parents always figure this out the hard way.

May God forgive you for your cruelty and callousness. You will have to answer to Him for your treatment of your fellow human being. Jesus came to teach love, not this kind of hateful vitriol. You are no better than the Westboro Baptist Church.

Whose families would Jesus anonymously attack on a message board?
What loving parent would Jesus lay a curse upon?

May your eyes and your heart be opened. You don't get to claim Jesus as the sponsor of your hate.

You're the last person to discuss God's forgiveness. You're a pervert and using religion to promote it- a devil! How cruel of you to try and ruin children and our country with your disgusting values. Shame on you. I pray hard for the children of selfish and sick miscreants who procure children- particulary those obtain through means which permanently deny them a father or mother. What cruel and savage beasts you are. You're not good people. You hurt children. Yes- curses to you!

[Anonymous]

Sociologist, Mark Regnerus of the University of Texas studied gay parents and the effects on children in a historic manner. Debunking earlier research, he concludes that the children of gays and lesbians fare worse than their counterparts- those from families with a mother and father. The differences were significant and many were gut-wrenching. For example, children of lesbian mothers:
Are an astonishing 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver."

The fact that gays ignore this is unconscionable. But, they're not exactly a moral people to begin with. Children are the losers here. Very sad.

[Anonymous]

That study has been thoroughly debunked. But fuck you for implying gays are child moldsters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sociologist, Mark Regnerus of the University of Texas studied gay parents and the effects on children in a historic manner. Debunking earlier research, he concludes that the children of gays and lesbians fare worse than their counterparts- those from families with a mother and father. The differences were significant and many were gut-wrenching. For example, children of lesbian mothers:
Are an astonishing 10 times more likely to have been "touched sexually by a parent or other adult caregiver."

The fact that gays ignore this is unconscionable. But, they're not exactly a moral people to begin with. Children are the losers here. Very sad.

Hahaha! Regnerus's study was so methodologically unsound that it's no surprise that it was paid for by a conservative think tank. Every credible institution has laughed it out of the room.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witherspoon_Institute#Regnerus_study

"the American Medical Association cited the study's poor methodology to explain why "the Regnerus study sheds no light on the parenting of stable, committed same-sex couples – as Regnerus himself acknowledges," and reaffirmed that "the conclusions by the leading associations of experts in this area reflect a consensus that children raised by lesbian or gay parents do not differ in any important respects from those raised by heterosexual parents."[31]"

Nice try, though. The sad part is that the Regnerus study is the BEST evidence the anti-gays can dredge up -- millions of dollars and that shoddy study is the best they can do. That is literally all they've got to back up their spittle-flecked rankings like the "curses" poster above.

[Anonymous]

And fuck you for implying they're not! Somebody's molesting these children. You implying it's heterosexuals is disgusting. What a loser you are. Just hope you don't have any access to kids.

[Anonymous]

This thread is useless. Gays will children will never accept anything other than they are okay. Any number of studies and testimonials of children could substantiate they're harmed. A gay parent will not listen to that. Some may call it plausible deniability, but truth it's human nature to be selfish and to refuse to accept the wrongness in one's belief. What's certain is gays aren't going anywhere and neither are their damaged children. Best you can do is pray for the kids and stay out of gay people's way. Thank goodness for legislation that is helping us do that. We have every right to not be harassed and marginalized by an ever-growing anti-Christian world. I simply want gays to stay away from me and my family. I treat them courteously and respectfully, yet they don't feel compelled to do the same. Just leave straight Christian families alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And fuck you for implying they're not! Somebody's molesting these children. You implying it's heterosexuals is disgusting. What a loser you are. Just hope you don't have any access to kids.

Whaaaat?

Now you just sound deranged. Do you truly think that all child molesters are gay? Seriously, there is something wrong with you. Are you actually functional day-to-day? I'm really curious if someone with this distorted a view of reality can live independently.

Keep talking. You're doing more to discredit your side than anyone's arguments could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is useless. Gays will children will never accept anything other than they are okay. Any number of studies and testimonials of children could substantiate they're harmed. A gay parent will not listen to that. Some may call it plausible deniability, but truth it's human nature to be selfish and to refuse to accept the wrongness in one's belief. What's certain is gays aren't going anywhere and neither are their damaged children. Best you can do is pray for the kids and stay out of gay people's way. Thank goodness for legislation that is helping us do that. We have every right to not be harassed and marginalized by an ever-growing anti-Christian world. I simply want gays to stay away from me and my family. I treat them courteously and respectfully, yet they don't feel compelled to do the same. Just leave straight Christian families alone.

the research actually says they are fine. Google scholar is your friend.

[Anonymous]

This thread is useless. Bigots will never accept anything other than that gays are evil and wrong, and their children damaged. Any number of studies and testimonials of children could substantiate they're not harmed. A bigot will not listen to that. Some may call it plausible deniability, but truth it's human nature to be selfish and to refuse to accept the wrongness in one's belief. What's certain is bigots aren't going anywhere and neither are their hateful rants. Best you can do is pray for them and stay out of bigots' way. Thank goodness for legislation that is helping us do that. We have every right to not be harassed and marginalized by a thankfully ever-shrinking anti-gay world. I simply want bigots to stay away from me and my family. I treat them courteously and respectfully, yet they don't feel compelled to do the same. Just leave gay families alone.

[Anonymous]

Wow. I live a pretty tolerant area and socialize with people who wouldn't question the rights of gay couples. I know that some of the views expressed here exist but boy is is it shocking to see them in full force.

Those of you using religion to justify your hate and bile; ask yourselves whether Jesus would have done this. Even if you can't agree that people should be allowed to love and marry who they choose can you not apply the approach of 'hate the sin, love the sinner'?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is useless. Bigots will never accept anything other than that gays are evil and wrong, and their children damaged. Any number of studies and testimonials of children could substantiate they're not harmed. A bigot will not listen to that. Some may call it plausible deniability, but truth it's human nature to be selfish and to refuse to accept the wrongness in one's belief. What's certain is bigots aren't going anywhere and neither are their hateful rants. Best you can do is pray for them and stay out of bigots' way. Thank goodness for legislation that is helping us do that. We have every right to not be harassed and marginalized by a thankfully ever-shrinking anti-gay world. I simply want bigots to stay away from me and my family. I treat them courteously and respectfully, yet they don't feel compelled to do the same. Just leave gay families alone.

At least we can dispense with the charade that this is about the traditional definition of marriage.

[Anonymous]

"On the basis of a remarkably consistent body of research on lesbian and gay parents and their children, the American Psychological Association (APA) and other health professional and scientific organizations have concluded that there is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation. That is, lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children. This body of research has shown that the adjustment, development and psychological well-being of children are unrelated to parental sexual orientation and that the children of lesbian and gay parents are as likely as those of heterosexual parents to flourish."

The APA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because gays are the ultimate narcissists, informing them that they're hurting children is unlikely to sway them. They can't be helped. Just pray for their children. God will handle the rest.

Okay! Why don't you let God handle it, then, and leave us alone and let us live our lives and protect our families? Thanks!

you don't have a family. You're damaged goods with the illusion of family in a more and more base culture. I feel bad for you and even worse for your children. May God protect them. Their only true father is Jesus, not you. Cursed is the day you became a parent. But, don't worry. Every dog has their day. When your adult children come forth to confront you for stealing a normal life from them, you'll get yours. What they'll probably do is just walk away from you. Narcissists can't be changed. Children of gay parents always figure this out the hard way.

May God forgive you for your cruelty and callousness. You will have to answer to Him for your treatment of your fellow human being. Jesus came to teach love, not this kind of hateful vitriol. You are no better than the Westboro Baptist Church.

Whose families would Jesus anonymously attack on a message board?
What loving parent would Jesus lay a curse upon?

May your eyes and your heart be opened. You don't get to claim Jesus as the sponsor of your hate.

You're the last person to discuss God's forgiveness. You're a pervert and using religion to promote it- a devil! How cruel of you to try and ruin children and our country with your disgusting values. Shame on you. I pray hard for the children of selfish and sick miscreants who procure children- particulary those obtain through means which permanently deny them a father or mother. What cruel and savage beasts you are. You're not good people. You hurt children. Yes- curses to you!

Oh look, the Westboro Baptist "church" has shown up.