Fairfax County: McLean Citizens Association demands smaller class sizes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I will try and bring up this "McLean Resolution" with Dr. Garza tomorrow on her listening tour stop. This whole letter is just in poor taste. I'm sure there are some average or underachieving children of wealthy people in general education elementary classes in McLean that could benefit from smaller class sizes, but on the overall, McLean just doesn't have ESL, FARMS, or students in tenuous, at-risk situations, who just do not do well on state tests, SATs, and all other measures of student achievement.

You know what isn't "fair"? That affordable housing is concentrated in Mason, Lee, and Mount Vernon. How about McLean takes on a larger share of the affordable housing pie? It's around 40% in 7 Corners. And, my idiot Mason District Supervisor wants to add another 15% to that. This greatly affects the local schools.

The infinite wisdom of the County BOS causes never ending heartburn for my district, and yet, it isn't enough for the "haves" of Fairfax County.

You could elect a BOS member who actually tries to enforce the housing codes, has said "no" to developers who keep pushing to increase density in areas that aren't convenient to Metro, and insists that new schools have adequate playground space and aren't located in abandoned office buildings when there were several better alternatives.

But, no, you kept electing Penny Gross, and then you think we should smile and keep quiet when FCPS puts twice as many kids in our classes as yours? Sorry, but our class sizes are too big, and we'll advocate aggressively to bring them down. See you at the polls, or in the court house, whichever comes first.

Quoted poster here - I've never voted for Penny Gross. And I have advocated for ALL of those measures here - they do not go over well. Penny Gross said that anyone who wants to enforce code or not concentrate development where it is not prudent is racist - no joke.

[Anonymous]

Our school (Eagle View) was part of that study and its overcrowded again so color me unimpressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:19:33 HERE: I should add that I taught Title I and they very much need the additional resources--but it is not right to have ginormous classes in other schools.

No one will teach at Title I schools if the classes get much larger. It's hard enough with small classes.

This is what I'm thinking. A friend of mine teaches 2nd grade at one of the poorly ranked title 1 schools in the county, and she has 18 students - I'm thinking that adding 3 students for 21 students total in her class wouldn't be a huge extra burden, but 25 might be.

Title one classes are capped around 21 students so she doesn't have to worry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:McLean isn't the only part of the county with huge class sizes, though. However, I do get your point about McLean NIMBY-ism.

But this class size issue is going to grow louder - have you seen the latest projections for West County? And we're not talking the wealthiest part of the county. These are people in apartments and THs.

Which area is West County?

Herndon, Oak Hill, Chantilly, Centreville.

Didn't they just redo these boundaries a few years ago when they closed down Clifton elementary?

well, they are going to have to continue to rejigger that nonsense.

The current AAP center proposal, with just one grade moved to Poplar Tree, leaves GBW almost 200 kids over capacity still.

If they move 2 grades, GBW will still be close to 150 over capacity. Which in the Haycock/Lemon Road situation, was apparently "an emergency situation"?

If 3 grades are moved, only grandfathering in one grade, both schools are then ~95 over capacity.

I realize this discussion is abaout class sizes, but this all ties together.

[Anonymous]

The random and huge disparities in all aspects are what's maddening about FCPS schools. One elementary school has an expansive property, three playgrounds and a climbing wall. Another has 18 students per class. Another has 36 students per class. Some kids get PE three times a week. Some have to eat lunch at 10 am. And on and on. I think it breeds resentment.

[Anonymous]

Why is GBW so crowded? That area has been built out forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The random and huge disparities in all aspects are what's maddening about FCPS schools. One elementary school has an expansive property, three playgrounds and a climbing wall. Another has 18 students per class. Another has 36 students per class. Some kids get PE three times a week. Some have to eat lunch at 10 am. And on and on. I think it breeds resentment.

Who has a climbing wall!? (starts to feel resentful...)

[Anonymous]

They need to reopen Clifton ES. Those other ES schools in the area are really over crowded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:McLean isn't the only part of the county with huge class sizes, though. However, I do get your point about McLean NIMBY-ism.

But this class size issue is going to grow louder - have you seen the latest projections for West County? And we're not talking the wealthiest part of the county. These are people in apartments and THs.

Which area is West County?

Herndon, Oak Hill, Chantilly, Centreville.

Didn't they just redo these boundaries a few years ago when they closed down Clifton elementary?

Clifton is much further south than the two ES mentioned by the PP.

They redid the boundaries when they opened Coates, which is a relatively new school in Herndon, but it seems like they'll need to adjust them again at some point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is GBW so crowded? That area has been built out forever.

Biggest ES AAP center in the county, in a heavily Asian area (Chantilly) where an increasing number of students are deemed eligible for AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is GBW so crowded? That area has been built out forever.

Biggest ES AAP center in the county, in a heavily Asian area (Chantilly) where an increasing number of students are deemed eligible for AAP.

the AAP students outnumber the neighborhood kids. BUT, the base school population is growing as young families move into the neighborhood as it is one of the most affordable SFH neighborhoods left in the county with access to good schools and amenities.

There are so many issues at play here, and they all relate back to FCPS and their failure to plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They need to reopen Clifton ES. Those other ES schools in the area are really over crowded.

+1

Rebuild and reopen it. Solve one problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The random and huge disparities in all aspects are what's maddening about FCPS schools. One elementary school has an expansive property, three playgrounds and a climbing wall. Another has 18 students per class. Another has 36 students per class. Some kids get PE three times a week. Some have to eat lunch at 10 am. And on and on. I think it breeds resentment.

Who has a climbing wall!? (starts to feel resentful...)

All the schools I've been to have them. It's not that big a deal actually. Probably was an in vogue thing for the PTA to raise money for several years back. It runs along one of the short sides of the gym and has mats covering it. It's probably about 6' tall. The kids can climb from one side of the gym to the other on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How to fix:
Eliminate the magnet schools.
Eliminate AAP centers.

This would make it easier to divvy up the teachers in the schools that currently have centers.

Then the tax paying parents would leave the school system

[Anonymous]

Title one classes are capped around 21 students so she doesn't have to worry.

They are only capped (and I'm not sure what the cap is) until 3rd grade. And then there is no cap.

I don't think it's right to have classes over 30 kids. I think a cap of 25 is asking too much. I think suggesting that non-Title 1 classes be capped at only 4 more kids than Title 1 classes is preposterous because the needs at impoverished schools are so great. I think 28-30 per class is reasonable and that there should be no more than 30, regardless of the FRL percentage. Assuming the classrooms can accommodate 30 desks, of course. Fire Marshals, anyone?

I would support a measure that would cap class sizes at 30, but would not support taking away needs-based staffing.

I could be wrong, but i wonder if those classes that have a low number of kids is driven by the caps. Hypothetically, if there are 45 kids in a school area in a Title 1 school and the cap is indeed 21 per class, then it's not legal to have only 2 classes of 23 and 22 kids. There would have to be 3 classes of 15 each. Either that, or you have to combine grade levels in one class, which is not ideal, and would probably be difficult in a high FRL, possibly high ESL setting.

Taxes may have to go up, which I would support. That being said, I think developer proffers have to go way up as well (which is something the School Board is looking at), particularly if they want to develop in areas without sufficient school capacity.

The only other option is redrawing the boundary lines. This might mean taking some kids out of the 35-kid McLean classrooms and putting them in other schools, which I bet would meet resistance (just read any thread in which someone suggests moving kids to Falls Church HS). Parents rightfully complain about too-large class size, but don't want to pay more taxes and don't want to be the ones who have to move to schools with available capacity because the schools are perceived as lesser. So what's the solution? Are there empty classrooms in McLean just waiting for FCPS to allow them to hire another teacher? If not, then where are those extra kids going? A trailer?