Why I hate AAP Parents - vent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:to those complaining about the AAP - not having it creates other issues. In MoCo (where I am; considering move to FFX which i why i am lurking here) there is nothing at all in any formal way that requires schools to seriously help target advanced ES learners beyond reading groups except for a VERY small program for the top 2 - 3% of kids. That program I hear is awesome but also only exists for 4 and 5th grades. So until 3rd grade you have nothing and for the 97% of kids in regular schools you have little formal process in place to help ensure that those needing more enrichment to target where they are at get it.

Yes, and there's so much research that shows that labeling kids as early as FFX county does is wrong. FFX county has about 20% of kids in AAP, that's crazy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:to those complaining about the AAP - not having it creates other issues. In MoCo (where I am; considering move to FFX which i why i am lurking here) there is nothing at all in any formal way that requires schools to seriously help target advanced ES learners beyond reading groups except for a VERY small program for the top 2 - 3% of kids. That program I hear is awesome but also only exists for 4 and 5th grades. So until 3rd grade you have nothing and for the 97% of kids in regular schools you have little formal process in place to help ensure that those needing more enrichment to target where they are at get it.

Yes, and there's so much research that shows that labeling kids as early as FFX county does is wrong. FFX county has about 20% of kids in AAP, that's crazy!

It's crazy and it's wrong. FFX has about 20% of students in AAP, getting pull outs, in advanced math, etc. It's 12-14% in AAP. Maybe that's also crazy to you, I don't know.

[Anonymous]

FCPS dashboard in the elementary school overview section shows that 15% of 3rd graders, 18% of 4th graders, 20% of 5th graders, and 23% of 6th graders are designated as full-time AAP. If this dashboard is consistent with all of the individual school enrollment ones, then this number does not include principal placed kids or kids designated Level IV who declined placement in an AAP classroom.

Hopefully, this link works:
http://151.188.217.200/fts_drupal_support/dashboard/totals/estotals16-17.html

Do you have any evidence contrary to these numbers? It really appears to be about 20% identified as Level IV and participating in AAP classrooms.

[Anonymous]

This information is slightly older. There was a year when FCPS accepted too many students to AAP, and they've been correcting since then.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/99LQQ56A5BDA/$file/a_Increase%20of%20AAP%20students%20in%20last%20ten%20years.pdf

Compared to your 2016 information, notice that while the number of students entering AAP remains between 2000-2500, the total number of elementary students has increased each year. I'm also unclear how approximately 10000 students can be in AAP while 4400 students transfer from their base schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This information is slightly older. There was a year when FCPS accepted too many students to AAP, and they've been correcting since then.

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/99LQQ56A5BDA/$file/a_Increase%20of%20AAP%20students%20in%20last%20ten%20years.pdf

Compared to your 2016 information, notice that while the number of students entering AAP remains between 2000-2500, the total number of elementary students has increased each year. I'm also unclear how approximately 10000 students can be in AAP while 4400 students transfer from their base schools.

That seems pretty simple, though. Neither the AAP students attending a Local Level IV classroom nor the ones attending a center which already was their base school would show up as a transfer.

The 14% in the 2013-2014 row in your graph refers only to students attending the center and not the local level IV AAP students. It also lists the total grade 3-8 population as 81,028, with 60,723 NOT receiving Level IV services......which means that 20,305 students (or about 25%) are receiving Level IV. This figure probably includes principal placements in LLIV classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Who cares how you calculate the number? We aren't talking about flyover America. Fairfax County is in the top 5 in the nation in terms of educational attainment and in terms of income. Since SES and maternal education are the top predictors of academic success, I would hope there would be a ton of smart kids. Who cares if the AAP number is 14% or 20%? It makes sense in terms of FCPS demographics, including income, education, and the number of 1st Gen Asian parents who put a premium on education.

Also, a strong education system (and yes, that includes AAP and TJ) is the rising tide that lifts all ships. High paying businesses move here because the highly skilled workers are here, or are willing to move here. DCPS, ACPS and now MCPS parents move here, and housing prices increase. These are good things for the county.

And BTW, having a kid in classes with 80% of the kids in a very educated very affluent County is not a failure or a bad education. The bottom 80% is still heads and shoulders above almost all American classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:to those complaining about the AAP - not having it creates other issues. In MoCo (where I am; considering move to FFX which i why i am lurking here) there is nothing at all in any formal way that requires schools to seriously help target advanced ES learners beyond reading groups except for a VERY small program for the top 2 - 3% of kids. That program I hear is awesome but also only exists for 4 and 5th grades. So until 3rd grade you have nothing and for the 97% of kids in regular schools you have little formal process in place to help ensure that those needing more enrichment to target where they are at get it.

Yes, and there's so much research that shows that labeling kids as early as FFX county does is wrong. FFX county has about 20% of kids in AAP, that's crazy!

It's crazy and it's wrong. FFX has about 20% of students in AAP, getting pull outs, in advanced math, etc. It's 12-14% in AAP. Maybe that's also crazy to you, I don't know.

when you consider the demographics of Fairfax and see who is in the program, 14-15% seems about right. Hardly surprising at all.

[Anonymous]

NP here. My kid just started 3rd grade AAP and I just heard about odyssey of the minds for the first time this week. I don't know how teams are formed or how competitive this is but I am interested in the program for my child.

I'm totally guessing here but maybe that parent wanted to know if kid was in AAP to see if he did not want that child on his team? I'm totally guessing here since I am new to AAP and know very little about odyssey of the minds. My kids just started soccer also. I can see a parent wanting to know how long my child played soccer.

[Anonymous]

PP again. My child never played soccer and isn't very big. If teams were actually chosen, my child would most certainly not get chosen to be on the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who cares how you calculate the number? We aren't talking about flyover America. Fairfax County is in the top 5 in the nation in terms of educational attainment and in terms of income. Since SES and maternal education are the top predictors of academic success, I would hope there would be a ton of smart kids. Who cares if the AAP number is 14% or 20%?

I'm just trying to keep the facts straight. Whether having 20% of the student body designated as Level IV and 25% receiving level IV services is a good thing or a bad thing is an entirely different debate. It's also a huge distortion to act as if 20% of the student population is within the top 2% intellectually. I'll freely admit that my AAP child is a bright, motivated student, but isn't gifted under any strict definition. That child seems to be very middle of the pack in AAP. The only reason she "needs" AAP is that all of the other similarly bright, motivated, non-gifted children are also in AAP. It's not necessarily a bad thing that AAP casts a very broad net and gives expanded curriculum to so many kids, but it should be acknowledged that it is a very broad net.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares how you calculate the number? We aren't talking about flyover America. Fairfax County is in the top 5 in the nation in terms of educational attainment and in terms of income. Since SES and maternal education are the top predictors of academic success, I would hope there would be a ton of smart kids. Who cares if the AAP number is 14% or 20%?

I'm just trying to keep the facts straight. Whether having 20% of the student body designated as Level IV and 25% receiving level IV services is a good thing or a bad thing is an entirely different debate. It's also a huge distortion to act as if 20% of the student population is within the top 2% intellectually. I'll freely admit that my AAP child is a bright, motivated student, but isn't gifted under any strict definition. That child seems to be very middle of the pack in AAP. The only reason she "needs" AAP is that all of the other similarly bright, motivated, non-gifted children are also in AAP. It's not necessarily a bad thing that AAP casts a very broad net and gives expanded curriculum to so many kids, but it should be acknowledged that it is a very broad net.

I don't think level 4 is 20%. I know one year it was 17%, but now about 15 I think.
That seems about right for Fairfax County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares how you calculate the number? We aren't talking about flyover America. Fairfax County is in the top 5 in the nation in terms of educational attainment and in terms of income. Since SES and maternal education are the top predictors of academic success, I would hope there would be a ton of smart kids. Who cares if the AAP number is 14% or 20%?

I'm just trying to keep the facts straight. Whether having 20% of the student body designated as Level IV and 25% receiving level IV services is a good thing or a bad thing is an entirely different debate. It's also a huge distortion to act as if 20% of the student population is within the top 2% intellectually. I'll freely admit that my AAP child is a bright, motivated student, but isn't gifted under any strict definition. That child seems to be very middle of the pack in AAP. The only reason she "needs" AAP is that all of the other similarly bright, motivated, non-gifted children are also in AAP. It's not necessarily a bad thing that AAP casts a very broad net and gives expanded curriculum to so many kids, but it should be acknowledged that it is a very broad net.

I generally agree with most of the above as applicable for my child as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares how you calculate the number? We aren't talking about flyover America. Fairfax County is in the top 5 in the nation in terms of educational attainment and in terms of income. Since SES and maternal education are the top predictors of academic success, I would hope there would be a ton of smart kids. Who cares if the AAP number is 14% or 20%?

I'm just trying to keep the facts straight. Whether having 20% of the student body designated as Level IV and 25% receiving level IV services is a good thing or a bad thing is an entirely different debate. It's also a huge distortion to act as if 20% of the student population is within the top 2% intellectually. I'll freely admit that my AAP child is a bright, motivated student, but isn't gifted under any strict definition. That child seems to be very middle of the pack in AAP. The only reason she "needs" AAP is that all of the other similarly bright, motivated, non-gifted children are also in AAP. It's not necessarily a bad thing that AAP casts a very broad net and gives expanded curriculum to so many kids, but it should be acknowledged that it is a very broad net.

I generally agree with most of the above as applicable for my child as well.

not that broad. 15% are in the advanced academic program. This "gifted" argument isw a red herring. It doesn't purport to be a program for "gifted" kids. Where do you get that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's rude. Just as it's rude to ask little kids other personal things like what their parents do or things like that.

What is rude about asking a kid what his/her parent(s) does (do)? Is a 7th grader "little"? I ask my kid's friends what their parents do - nothing rude asking what mom/dad does.

Ask the parents directly if you must know!

It is a rude question, but even more so, BORING. I've always hated it. Talk about the weather if you want small talk. You should see the reactions of people if you're able to avoid the question. I find that most people like that question just want to one up someone else. The best are those who base their own value on what their spouse does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares how you calculate the number? We aren't talking about flyover America. Fairfax County is in the top 5 in the nation in terms of educational attainment and in terms of income. Since SES and maternal education are the top predictors of academic success, I would hope there would be a ton of smart kids. Who cares if the AAP number is 14% or 20%?

I'm just trying to keep the facts straight. Whether having 20% of the student body designated as Level IV and 25% receiving level IV services is a good thing or a bad thing is an entirely different debate. It's also a huge distortion to act as if 20% of the student population is within the top 2% intellectually. I'll freely admit that my AAP child is a bright, motivated student, but isn't gifted under any strict definition. That child seems to be very middle of the pack in AAP. The only reason she "needs" AAP is that all of the other similarly bright, motivated, non-gifted children are also in AAP. It's not necessarily a bad thing that AAP casts a very broad net and gives expanded curriculum to so many kids, but it should be acknowledged that it is a very broad net.

People keep saying this. When so many families to DC for work, then it begins to seem as if high IQ were the norm. Broadly speaking, it may be the "norm" in DC but it's not nationwide. Why should it be surprising that 10-20% of the children in FFX would have an IQ that is in the top 2% nationwide? Most posters on this forum, the AAP forum, went to a Gifted program when they were children, and they expect that their bright children will also go to a Gifted program, and generally they do.