College Pressures Starting Already?!!!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well ..... Your kids should be volunteering... Not to get into college ... But really, they need to be doing something for others.

I couldn't give two Sh-ts about whether my kids get into Ivies so long as they become happy, kind, and we'll rounded young adults. Amazing how parents put education above all else, even above the social well being of their child. To each their own I guess. I am confident that my kids will go to a good college of their choosing and they will find their path, not the path that I choose for them.

I actually have a child at an Ivy. And two in state schools. I was totally hands off. We never did test prep or any of that nonsense. All three are on academic scholarships, none of it need based. Two are on full rides.

You don't have to put tremendous pressure on your kids in order for them to succeed. You just have to be willing to accept that success looks different for everyone.

It's my understanding that Ivy League schools only award need-based financial aid, not academic scholarships.

+1. Typical Ivy parent who has to tell you their kid is at the top of their ivy and hence has an academic scholarship. They may have a fellowship or a special program but I highly doubt that came with money to entice the kid to attend the ivy -- the ivys aren't that desperate for students. -Signed an Ivy grad

Well, I'm no Ivy grad. But I know that there is a lot of scholarship money that does not come from the school. She received three different scholarships. Or maybe it's all a rouse and I'll get a massive bill when she graduated next year.

Plenty of private scholarship money out there -- it's a bit disingenuous to say that your kid is on an academic scholarship at an ivy as the money is not from that ivy, it is from whatever other private source; your kid would have been eligible for that even if they went to VCU.

+1000. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, etc. do not give "academic scholarships only need based.

I can't speak to the others but my DS is at Stanford on an athletic scholarship. BTW, he didn't even think about college till he was a rising junior. Graduated with a 3.5 GPA from an average high school. I feel sorry for those of you busting your hump to make your kids stand out from the pack.

Your kid wouldn't be at Stanford if he wasn't a jock, you realize. If he wasn't a jock, he would have had to have thought a little harder about college before 11th grade.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well ..... Your kids should be volunteering... Not to get into college ... But really, they need to be doing something for others.

I couldn't give two Sh-ts about whether my kids get into Ivies so long as they become happy, kind, and we'll rounded young adults. Amazing how parents put education above all else, even above the social well being of their child. To each their own I guess. I am confident that my kids will go to a good college of their choosing and they will find their path, not the path that I choose for them.

I actually have a child at an Ivy. And two in state schools. I was totally hands off. We never did test prep or any of that nonsense. All three are on academic scholarships, none of it need based. Two are on full rides.

You don't have to put tremendous pressure on your kids in order for them to succeed. You just have to be willing to accept that success looks different for everyone.

It's my understanding that Ivy League schools only award need-based financial aid, not academic scholarships.

+1. Typical Ivy parent who has to tell you their kid is at the top of their ivy and hence has an academic scholarship. They may have a fellowship or a special program but I highly doubt that came with money to entice the kid to attend the ivy -- the ivys aren't that desperate for students. -Signed an Ivy grad

Well, I'm no Ivy grad. But I know that there is a lot of scholarship money that does not come from the school. She received three different scholarships. Or maybe it's all a rouse and I'll get a massive bill when she graduated next year.

Plenty of private scholarship money out there -- it's a bit disingenuous to say that your kid is on an academic scholarship at an ivy as the money is not from that ivy, it is from whatever other private source; your kid would have been eligible for that even if they went to VCU.

+1000. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, etc. do not give "academic scholarships only need based.

I can't speak to the others but my DS is at Stanford on an athletic scholarship. BTW, he didn't even think about college till he was a rising junior. Graduated with a 3.5 GPA from an average high school. I feel sorry for those of you busting your hump to make your kids stand out from the pack.

Um - why throw stones, I'm sure your D1 son busted his hump to get recruited? Or did Stanford's coach just magically call him on high school graduation day with an offer?

Stanford gives out 300 athletic scholarships a yr... Bet pp's kid who got one is pretty outstanding even if pp doesn't think so:

http://admission.stanford.edu/student/athletics/

[Anonymous]

Stanford is a great school but not an Ivy League school. The Ivies are Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Brown, University of Pennsylvania, Cornell and Columbia. Not that they are necessarily better schools than Stanford or MIT. The Ivy League schools also do not give athletic scholarships.

[Anonymous]

I am guiding my kids thru the process and preparation but not pressuring them - it is possible. And you do need to start making sure they have the right preparation in grammar school to take the right high school classes (ie Algebra in grammar school). If your daughter is in a private school and already a good student the pressure from her classmates and teachers is already there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well ..... Your kids should be volunteering... Not to get into college ... But really, they need to be doing something for others.

I couldn't give two Sh-ts about whether my kids get into Ivies so long as they become happy, kind, and we'll rounded young adults. Amazing how parents put education above all else, even above the social well being of their child. To each their own I guess. I am confident that my kids will go to a good college of their choosing and they will find their path, not the path that I choose for them.

I actually have a child at an Ivy. And two in state schools. I was totally hands off. We never did test prep or any of that nonsense. All three are on academic scholarships, none of it need based. Two are on full rides.

You don't have to put tremendous pressure on your kids in order for them to succeed. You just have to be willing to accept that success looks different for everyone.

No Ivy League school gives academic scholarships - all scholarships in the Ivy League is need based. You are lying.

Except they have a very broad notion of what "need based" means... and why do you care so much?

No "need based" means just that - financial need and financial need only. I care because the PP is making crap up. No Ivy League school gives either academic or athletic scholarships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well ..... Your kids should be volunteering... Not to get into college ... But really, they need to be doing something for others.

I couldn't give two Sh-ts about whether my kids get into Ivies so long as they become happy, kind, and we'll rounded young adults. Amazing how parents put education above all else, even above the social well being of their child. To each their own I guess. I am confident that my kids will go to a good college of their choosing and they will find their path, not the path that I choose for them.

I actually have a child at an Ivy. And two in state schools. I was totally hands off. We never did test prep or any of that nonsense. All three are on academic scholarships, none of it need based. Two are on full rides.

You don't have to put tremendous pressure on your kids in order for them to succeed. You just have to be willing to accept that success looks different for everyone.

No Ivy League school gives academic scholarships - all scholarships in the Ivy League is need based. You are lying.

Except they have a very broad notion of what "need based" means... and why do you care so much?

No "need based" means just that - financial need and financial need only. I care because the PP is making crap up. No Ivy League school gives either academic or athletic scholarships.

Ivies do not give athletic scholarships, but they do have athletic "spots". As long as the athlete in question meets the minimum standard for acceptance and the coach wants him/her for one of his designated "spots", they are accepted. FWIW, many schools do this, not just Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is 10 and we talk to him matter-of-factly about what it will take to be considered for a top college. We have also begun to take steps to position him on that track.

I'm not sure that being candid about this to him and engaging him in the discussion is tantamount to active "pressure." Maybe passive. I'm cool with that. He has big professional dreams of his own -- which he can discuss intelligently and without prompting -- and as an adult with more life experience I know damn well that he can't just show up the fall of junior year and announce ok! Ready to work and get going on that college package. Well, he could, but certain doors will be closed to him.

You sound crazy. Poor child...

No, this is totally reasonable. My son is smart and doesn't really know anything about going to college but knows that he wants to go. He's 11. We talk to him about doing well in school, ask him about what kinds of things he might want to do in high school, encourage him in things like band. I don't think it's pressuring a kid to tell them what is involved in going to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm suprised that all of the PPs except one think that college pressure for young kids is normal. This thread is whack.

And I also don't think its based in reality. I know plenty of kids who have come out of HS recently and attended top-tier schools (I my book I guess that's probably anything in the top 50 nationwide) who were just "normal" kids who did activities and made grades and test scores that put them above the cut off lines for these schools.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You people are SICK. If you see everything in your child's life transactionally (will this help him get into college? No? Then whats the point?) you will (1) rob them of their childhood, (2) Increase the likelihood of mental illness -- trust me on this one, my DC just graduated from high school and I saw the wreckage all around her., (3) and, it will be counter-productive. A child who has been programed is a child who doesn't learn to think for herself. This is why we are producing so many good little soldiers who will work, work, work but couldn't create something if their life depended on it.

There was a girl in my 7th grade class who started researching colleges because "you need to start early." Senior year she attempted suicide. True story. You may think your child is just fine with all of it but you won't know until later that it isn't the case at all.

If everything is pointed to that one task of getting into college, what happens then? How well prepared are they to take control of the rest of their lives?

In 10th grade you can start thinking about colleges. There is absolutely no need to do so before then and it could cause more harm than good.

100% agree!

FWIW, I attended an ivy. By the time I got there, I had no clue what my true passions were as I had spent so many years in which "getting into a top college" was my real only goal. This was primarily due to parental pressure but being surrounded by highly competitive, intensely driven peers with like-minded parents contributed, as well, I'm sure (l grew up in a largely career-minded, image-focused, affluent area that was in many ways similar to much of DCMV). I chose the college major I thought I "should" & graduated summa cum laude. 15 years later, I had a highly successful, lucrative career. It was not at all a difficult choice, however, to leave it behind & become a SAHM when my son was born just over 4 years ago (I already had 2 wonderful stepchildren, now 11 & 13, who now live with us fulltime, in case anyone is wondering why I'm on the "Older Kids and Teenagers" board ). This wasn't bc I think children are necessarily better off with a SAHP -- I don't-- but bc I knew I really wouldn't miss it ( & bc I'm fortunate enough to have a DH whose salary is enough for us to live well on --I don't want to imply that I'm unaware of how extremely lucky I was to be in the position where the enjoyment of my job was even a factor, much less the primary one).

I loved being a SAHM ( & still do) but around the time my son was 6 months old, I felt the need to get out of the house & do something that wasn't related to my role as a parent. After looking around for opportunities that fit my schedule,I began volunteering a few times a month for a cause that I always believed in but about which I've since become extremely passionate. I got so much out of it that I started volunteering several hours a week, instead, & -- barring some vacations, kids' illnesses, etc. & the 3-month-long "maternity leave" I'm currently taking due to the recent birth of my daughter-- have continued to do so ever since. My part-time volunteer job has provided me with far more fulfillment in just 3.5 years than my career did in 15. For the first time since elementary school, I'm truly enjoying my life, not just chugging along until I get my next break from it. This, to me, is sad, particularly since I know that,had I been given more of an opportunity when I was young to discover this personal passion even existed within me, I actually could've made it into a career almost 2 decades ago.

What if I had died in my 20s or early 30s? It would have been a tragedy no matter what, because the loss of a young life always is, but I think it would have been even more heartbreaking that I'd spent the majority of my short life pursuing the societal version of success rather than my own.I would've died still largely unaware of who I really am & what's really important to me.I'm not trying to be morbid but early death can & does happen. My cousin died of leukemia at 21 & my college roommate of ovarian cancer at 33. Car accidents killed my best friend's brother when he was 28 & my neighbor's daughter when she was 19. The fragility of life, perhaps more than anything else, speaks to the importance of achieving a healthy balance between planning for the future & living for today. Yes, life's not always going to be "fun"; there are often less-than-enjoyable things we have to do today to ensure we aren't left stranded tomorrow. Of course we need to teach our kids the importance of hard work & responsibility. But we also need to teach them that joy, intellectual & cultural curiosity, laughter, kindness, compassion, self-care, generosity, personal discovery, empathy, friendship &, of course, love are important, too. We need to allow them the time & space for all these things to truly be part of their lives.

Just to illustrate that the failure to attend an elite college won't ruin one's life:

My husband, though hardly a slacker as a teenager, also wasn't a "super achiever" in high school. He took honors & AP classes all 4 years in the two subject areas he truly excelled in, regular college prep classes in the rest & was, overall, about a B+ student at his non-magnet public school. He was on the soccer & baseball teams & was good, but not great, at both. He did volunteer work with kids with cerebral palsy for a few weeks every summer & weekly during the school year, not bc he thought it might help him get into college but bc he had a genuine desire to do so as a result of having an uncle with CP. He played the drums & decided not to be in the school band but, just for fun, he & his friends formed their own band (that they all now fully admit was pretty horrible). He then attended his state university which, while a pretty good school, is not one of the "public ivies". He picked a major that reflected both his interests & goals, worked reasonably hard while also having a wonderful time, graduated with a 3.1 overall GPA & a 3.8 GPA in his major, started his chosen career at the bottom then steadily worked his way up, both financially supporting himself & enjoying what he was doing every step of the way, & now has an excellent job in a field he loves.

My husband also actually enjoyed high school & has a lot of very fond memories of those years. When he first told me this, it was as if he told me he relaxed on the weekends by getting elective root canals! I have a few good memories of high school but I mostly just remember the almost constant stress & acute pressure. It was, overall, a pretty miserable time in my life. My husband is still friends with his core group of friends from high school;none of them attended an ivy or the like (Stanford, MIT, etc.), a top 20 national liberal arts college, or a "public ivy". Nonetheless, all of them have done quite well as adults, both professionally & personally. Whenever they get together & I hear them fondly reminiscing about those days, I admit to feeling a pang of jealousy & a sense of loss. Although my parents & school tried to convince me otherwise, I clearly didn't need to sacrifice so much of my adolescence in order to have a successful adulthood.

Yes, academics are important but such intense focus on achievement for the sake of college acceptances is short-sighted at best & harmful at worst. Some of my high-achieving peers, for example, struggled with major depression & anxiety, a couple to the point of experiencing actual nervous breakdowns, while others developed substance abuse problems &/or severe eating disorders. As we enter middle age, a few have yet to fully recover & at least 4 have died as a result of mental health issues that began in high school -- one died of a drug overdose, one as the result of anorexia & two committed suicide. Obviously, there may have been, & likely were, other factors (both genetic & environmental) that contributed to my classmates issues. I have no doubt, however, that the unhealthy focus on future success, even if was to the exclusion of present-day happiness, certainly didn't help, particularly since a highly disproportionate number of kids at or near the top of the class seemed to end up suffering from serious mental health issues (eating disorders in particular).

Please don't think you need to rob your children of their present for the sake of their future. Let them find & explore their passions, experience deep friendships & puppy love, spend time daydreaming & being goofy. Let them discover who they are so they can be themselves. Let them really experience & enjoy being KIDS.

*I apologize for any typos, spelling & grammatical errors, etc. I'm writing this while nursing my 3-week-old DD & am, like most parents of newborns , rather sleep-deprived

Thank you for this. You're clearly way too sensible for this forum The craziness around here about achievement is INSANE. It's too easy for parents to say they're not pressuring their kids, that their kids "want" this when the kids are merely being compliant. All of us know people who went to any old college and have lived wildly successful, happy lives. Yes, the world is changing, college admissions and everything else have gotten more competitive, but the basics needed for success -- hard work, creativity, responsibility and an ability to think for oneself -- have not. The shortsightedness in pushing for what you rightly called society's version of success would be laughable if the outcomes weren't often tragic. Who cares what college a kid ends up at or how impressive of a first job they land if they've never had a chance to be themselves and enjoy life? Too many people here, apparently.

I'm sending my first to college in a month. Smart kid, who didn't apply himself, but enjoyed high school and pursued many different activities is going to maybe top 25 school, that he's thrilled about. The irony is his roommate is from TJ....Willing to bet my DC had more fun getting there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am guiding my kids thru the process and preparation but not pressuring them - it is possible. And you do need to start making sure they have the right preparation in grammar school to take the right high school classes (ie Algebra in grammar school). If your daughter is in a private school and already a good student the pressure from her classmates and teachers is already there.

They don't need Algebra in freaking grammar school! DC took Algebra in 7th grade and ran out of math classes by junior year. Perhaps you should do a little more research before you start guiding anyone.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Well ..... Your kids should be volunteering... Not to get into college ... But really, they need to be doing something for others.

I couldn't give two Sh-ts about whether my kids get into Ivies so long as they become happy, kind, and we'll rounded young adults. Amazing how parents put education above all else, even above the social well being of their child. To each their own I guess. I am confident that my kids will go to a good college of their choosing and they will find their path, not the path that I choose for them.

I actually have a child at an Ivy. And two in state schools. I was totally hands off. We never did test prep or any of that nonsense. All three are on academic scholarships, none of it need based. Two are on full rides.

You don't have to put tremendous pressure on your kids in order for them to succeed. You just have to be willing to accept that success looks different for everyone.

It's my understanding that Ivy League schools only award need-based financial aid, not academic scholarships.

+1. Typical Ivy parent who has to tell you their kid is at the top of their ivy and hence has an academic scholarship. They may have a fellowship or a special program but I highly doubt that came with money to entice the kid to attend the ivy -- the ivys aren't that desperate for students. -Signed an Ivy grad

Well, I'm no Ivy grad. But I know that there is a lot of scholarship money that does not come from the school. She received three different scholarships. Or maybe it's all a rouse and I'll get a massive bill when she graduated next year.

Plenty of private scholarship money out there -- it's a bit disingenuous to say that your kid is on an academic scholarship at an ivy as the money is not from that ivy, it is from whatever other private source; your kid would have been eligible for that even if they went to VCU.

+1000. Ivies, Stanford, MIT, etc. do not give "academic scholarships only need based.

I can't speak to the others but my DS is at Stanford on an athletic scholarship. BTW, he didn't even think about college till he was a rising junior. Graduated with a 3.5 GPA from an average high school. I feel sorry for those of you busting your hump to make your kids stand out from the pack.

Your kid wouldn't be at Stanford if he wasn't a jock, you realize. If he wasn't a jock, he would have had to have thought a little harder about college before 11th grade.

And if your son is who I think he is, he was a standout in his sport as a freshman and an all-American as a senior. He didn't have to think about where he was going. The colleges would come to him.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It's actually good to start early to make sure she has what her top choices want in terms of academics. I would be less worried about high school electives and volunteer hours now - but would start looking into what she does want to do.

I started taking bag-pipe lessons in 8th grade and continued thru high school - and got pretty. Weird, but I do think it gave me a little edge in admissions - it was what every alumni interviewer asked be about. My kid is an athlete and has no interest in a learning a weird instrument but we did get advice on what position he should play in what sport to give him the edge when applying to the Ivy League Colleges.

How and when did you do this? DH and I have thought a lot about what sports our kids would likely be good at based on their body type, size, and athleticism.

How old are your kids? If they haven't started playing sports yet, just look at what's available & ask them which sports they'd like to try. If they've already tried some sports, ask them which (if any) they'd like to continue playing. Don't select their activities for them based on how much "competitive edge" they might give your kids when applying for college. Let them participate in the activities they enjoy!

+100. Even if you push, the irony may be that, like my kid, they don't like the sport where they have a competitive edge. Agree with PP, stop trying to game it and let them do what they want. They'll never be good enough if they don't love it anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't speak to the others but my DS is at Stanford on an athletic scholarship. BTW, he didn't even think about college till he was a rising junior. Graduated with a 3.5 GPA from an average high school. I feel sorry for those of you busting your hump to make your kids stand out from the pack.

NP here. I'm not sure I believe this one, either. The athletic recruits I know at the Ivies from the past 1-2 years--and I know a number of them--came from area magnets or Big 3 private schools. These kids had great grades at highly competitive schools and took heavy courseloads of magnet or AP classes. I don't know of any 3.5s at so-so schools who were recruited for athletics to the USNWR top 10. Let's face it, a 3.5 GPA (weighted or unweighted? either way, it's lowish) is basically B or B+ average which may not get a kid into UMD. I'm familiar with the SATs for 3 of these athletic recruits that I personally know, and 2 of them were national merit scholarship semi-finalists (there could be more NMSSFs among the athletic recruits I know, but I don't have that info).

So the Stanford story seems a little fishy, unless her kid was recruited to be quarterback for the football team or something. Definitely none of the lower-profile sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well ..... Your kids should be volunteering... Not to get into college ... But really, they need to be doing something for others.

I couldn't give two Sh-ts about whether my kids get into Ivies so long as they become happy, kind, and we'll rounded young adults. Amazing how parents put education above all else, even above the social well being of their child. To each their own I guess. I am confident that my kids will go to a good college of their choosing and they will find their path, not the path that I choose for them.

I actually have a child at an Ivy. And two in state schools. I was totally hands off. We never did test prep or any of that nonsense. All three are on academic scholarships, none of it need based. Two are on full rides.

You don't have to put tremendous pressure on your kids in order for them to succeed. You just have to be willing to accept that success looks different for everyone.

No Ivy League school gives academic scholarships - all scholarships in the Ivy League is need based. You are lying.

Except they have a very broad notion of what "need based" means... and why do you care so much?

No "need based" means just that - financial need and financial need only. I care because the PP is making crap up. No Ivy League school gives either academic or athletic scholarships.

+1. Signed, mom of another Ivy student, and we had to think long and hard about giving up the merit aid that other, non-Ivy schools offered.

[Anonymous]

NP. The Ivies as an athletic league isn't as competitive in most sports in comparison to other D-1 schools. The kids from Big3 schools who are recruited by ivy league schools usually get in for tennis, rowing, and crew.