Why does DCPS ignore advanced learners in ES?

[Anonymous]

Good idea PP, thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much does it matter to be 'challenged' at school as a kid?
I feel like I was never really challenged until grad school, and it was fine for me. I had more time to do other things, reading other books I liked, going places with my parents w/o stressing about homework, etc.

Me too! That said I went to an excellent public school - lack of challenge is one thing, but at least the school was safe, and reasonably stimulating.

I second this, and also the PP who mentioned a G&T program that was mostly brain teasers and going to museums.

I did a similar G&T program. It was more structured that the museum-going program, by the sound of it, but the focus was definitely on "enrichment" as opposed to "acceleration". The basic idea was, hey kid, you find this school stuff easy, but what about this other stuff over here? And the other stuff could be high-school level science experiments in grade 1, but without making a fuss about it.

We were mostly in classes with the other kids, but pulled out to attend these other activities here and there, at least once per week. I think the G&T cohort was composed of some truly gifted kids plus some kids that were "just" above average and really well-prepared, very educated and involved parents, and so on. Which is great, by the way. If those above-average and well-prepared kids are contributing to a G&T type program, then they should absolutely attend. It's like a top college - some people are there because they are geniuses, some because they worked really hard. As long as they all contribute, they are all welcome.

Regarding these analogies about driving on the highway and when differentiation can and can't work, I think the answer is, a class will be ok if it more or less features a bell curve, with 10-20% struggling, 60-80% middle range, and 10-20% excelling. It will work fine even if the range is extreme, provided that 1) the majority of kids are keeping up with the basic requirements and 2) there are some pull-outs and extra after hours work for both extremes. A lot of that has to come from parents, but some can come from the school, like the program I was in.

The problem is when the struggling students overwhelm the class, and when there are major behavioral issues. Let's say you have a class where 50% don't read at grade level. Ok, clearly there you are not going to have any enrichment for the advanced kids! The advanced kids need to leave the classroom for a few hours week and do some other stuff while the struggling kids get intensive tutoring. Provided the resources are there, that's the obvious answer. This stuff is actually pretty easy, folks!

But going back to the quoted text above, school is also a time for hanging out with your parents, doing unstructured stuff in your spare time, reading whatever you want to read, doing sports or other activities, computer programming, whatever. I would have died if I had grown up in China, doing all of that crazy homework all the time, all the rote work. We need to give our kids some time to just explore, too!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's excellent differentiation at my kids' JKLMM school; it is a particular focus of the principal's, and he has sent teachers for training to ensure they are able to teach kids at different levels in the same room. Both of my kids are advanced in reading--one reading 4+ grades above his grade level--and they are both challenged and engaged.

I'd much rather have my kids in diverse classrooms where each kid is taught as his/her level than in a pull-out G&T program.

If you are in a JKLM school then its really a different issue. By and large, the entire class is high SES and prepared to learn.

Not necessarily. Not at Murch, at least, which is the school I was discussing above. Yes, large portion of school is high SES. But it's not nearly as uniform as at other JKLM schools. And from my experience pretty much every classroom has a range of learners from below grade level to very far above.

But, yes--you can't underestimate the value of family investment. It's not that Murch kids are uniformly high-ability or uniformly high-SES. It's that the families are uniformly invested in their kids' educations and provide support/continuity at home.

[b]Honey, Murch is 9% FARMS which is pretty low and very far from the DCPS average.
http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Murch+Elementary+School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ So the recommendation is to let G & T / honors students rot, or move out of the city? When you have a class with kids acting out and occupying the teacher's entire time, who's learning? When do we stop catering exclusively to the bottom?

[b]Who says GT or honors students are being left to rot in DCPS? Just because there's no labeling system that comes with services just for those kids (and no one else) means they're being left to rot?

Are you aware of what your school or DCPS in general does offer for these types of students? Or to be even more transparent--what school is your child at where he or she is "rotting" because all of the resources go to "bottom" students?

[Anonymous]

I think in some DCPS, advanced learners needs are addressed and in some they are just a relief to that teacher that she has one less kid to focus on. It has to be parent driven though unfortunately.

This is why I wish DC would actually focus on an advanced learner program in the title one schools, it is where kids don't have advocates that programs are needed.

[Anonymous]

Reading all these replies from posters whose kids are at different schools, it seems to me you can't say "DCPS ignores advanced learners" -- this is a school-by-school issue.

Some schools apparently do a great job meeting the needs of advanced learners, while others evidently don't.

I think my own child's school does a great job, and I admit I get frustrated when prospective parents (whose children are still just in ECE!) express dissatisfaction because the principal isn't receptive to their questions about a G&T program.

If your child is an advanced learner, and you find that advanced learners are not well-served at your child's school, work with other parents, teachers, & the administration to find a solution -- whether that be additional training in differentiation, pull-outs, some kind of G&T program, or whatever.

But don't assume that any given DCPS is failing to meet the needs of advanced learners because it doesn't have the kind of program you assume is the only way to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's excellent differentiation at my kids' JKLMM school; it is a particular focus of the principal's, and he has sent teachers for training to ensure they are able to teach kids at different levels in the same room. Both of my kids are advanced in reading--one reading 4+ grades above his grade level--and they are both challenged and engaged.

I'd much rather have my kids in diverse classrooms where each kid is taught as his/her level than in a pull-out G&T program.

If you are in a JKLM school then its really a different issue. By and large, the entire class is high SES and prepared to learn.

Not necessarily. Not at Murch, at least, which is the school I was discussing above. Yes, large portion of school is high SES. But it's not nearly as uniform as at other JKLM schools. And from my experience pretty much every classroom has a range of learners from below grade level to very far above.

But, yes--you can't underestimate the value of family investment. It's not that Murch kids are uniformly high-ability or uniformly high-SES. It's that the families are uniformly invested in their kids' educations and provide support/continuity at home.

[b]Honey, Murch is 9% FARMS which is pretty low and very far from the DCPS average.
http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/Murch+Elementary+School

Well, that's the same page that says Murch is 66% IB, which is off by about 20 percentage points (as has been discussed here a ton).

But even if accurate, 9% FARMS doesn't = 91% high SES.

[Anonymous]

I think all DCPS schools get support in having programs or at least resources for advanced students even if they're not called gifted. It's up to the school to want them. So probably the first thing to do is to ask the school what they offer and if they say nothing to ask why not. Or to ask if they aren't being given any support from DCPS for that--which can easily be verified. A little advocating can go a long way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading all these replies from posters whose kids are at different schools, it seems to me you can't say "DCPS ignores advanced learners" -- this is a school-by-school issue.

Some schools apparently do a great job meeting the needs of advanced learners, while others evidently don't.

I think my own child's school does a great job, and I admit I get frustrated when prospective parents (whose children are still just in ECE!) express dissatisfaction because the principal isn't receptive to their questions about a G&T program.

If your child is an advanced learner, and you find that advanced learners are not well-served at your child's school, work with other parents, teachers, & the administration to find a solution -- whether that be additional training in differentiation, pull-outs, some kind of G&T program, or whatever.

But don't assume that any given DCPS is failing to meet the needs of advanced learners because it doesn't have the kind of program you assume is the only way to do that.

Do you mind saying which school this is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading all these replies from posters whose kids are at different schools, it seems to me you can't say "DCPS ignores advanced learners" -- this is a school-by-school issue.

Some schools apparently do a great job meeting the needs of advanced learners, while others evidently don't.

I think my own child's school does a great job, and I admit I get frustrated when prospective parents (whose children are still just in ECE!) express dissatisfaction because the principal isn't receptive to their questions about a G&T program.

If your child is an advanced learner, and you find that advanced learners are not well-served at your child's school, work with other parents, teachers, & the administration to find a solution -- whether that be additional training in differentiation, pull-outs, some kind of G&T program, or whatever.

But don't assume that any given DCPS is failing to meet the needs of advanced learners because it doesn't have the kind of program you assume is the only way to do that.

Do you mind saying which school this is?

Watkins ES. The administration pointedly told a PTA meeting they're not going to entertain this concept. Differentiation in the classroom is all you get, even in a classroom where there're behavioral issues, including apparently knife assaults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading all these replies from posters whose kids are at different schools, it seems to me you can't say "DCPS ignores advanced learners" -- this is a school-by-school issue.

Some schools apparently do a great job meeting the needs of advanced learners, while others evidently don't.

I think my own child's school does a great job, and I admit I get frustrated when prospective parents (whose children are still just in ECE!) express dissatisfaction because the principal isn't receptive to their questions about a G&T program.

If your child is an advanced learner, and you find that advanced learners are not well-served at your child's school, work with other parents, teachers, & the administration to find a solution -- whether that be additional training in differentiation, pull-outs, some kind of G&T program, or whatever.

But don't assume that any given DCPS is failing to meet the needs of advanced learners because it doesn't have the kind of program you assume is the only way to do that.

Do you mind saying which school this is?

Watkins ES. The administration pointedly told a PTA meeting they're not going to entertain this concept. Differentiation in the classroom is all you get, even in a classroom where there're behavioral issues, including apparently knife assaults.

I'm assuming this is a joke. Seriously though, Watkins last year did have that I-block for language arts where all the kids were grouped by ability, and rotated across the 4-5 teachers in that grade. Is that gone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading all these replies from posters whose kids are at different schools, it seems to me you can't say "DCPS ignores advanced learners" -- this is a school-by-school issue.

Some schools apparently do a great job meeting the needs of advanced learners, while others evidently don't.

I think my own child's school does a great job, and I admit I get frustrated when prospective parents (whose children are still just in ECE!) express dissatisfaction because the principal isn't receptive to their questions about a G&T program.

If your child is an advanced learner, and you find that advanced learners are not well-served at your child's school, work with other parents, teachers, & the administration to find a solution -- whether that be additional training in differentiation, pull-outs, some kind of G&T program, or whatever.

But don't assume that any given DCPS is failing to meet the needs of advanced learners because it doesn't have the kind of program you assume is the only way to do that.

Do you mind saying which school this is?

Watkins ES. The administration pointedly told a PTA meeting they're not going to entertain this concept. Differentiation in the classroom is all you get, even in a classroom where there're behavioral issues, including apparently knife assaults.

Thanks for answering for me -- except no, it's not Watkins. And I'd rather not identify my daughter's school, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Watkins does differentiate using advanced readers units for students in grades 2-5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Watkins does differentiate using advanced readers units for students in grades 2-5.

Within the same class or with pull-outs?

[Anonymous]

Within the class.