Why does DCPS ignore advanced learners in ES?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much does it matter to be 'challenged' at school as a kid?
I feel like I was never really challenged until grad school, and it was fine for me. I had more time to do other things, reading other books I liked, going places with my parents w/o stressing about homework, etc.

Me too! That said I went to an excellent public school - lack of challenge is one thing, but at least the school was safe, and reasonably stimulating.

Yeah I remember coasting through most of my classes until I got to AP level courses.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure about DCPS ignoring advanced learners there is a summer enrichment program that DC is attending at Hardy (and another school EoTP) that is with the University of Connecticut gifted center.

http://dcps.dc.gov/DCPS/Beyond+the+Classroom/Summer+School/PK3+through+8th+Grade#2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much does it matter to be 'challenged' at school as a kid?
I feel like I was never really challenged until grad school, and it was fine for me. I had more time to do other things, reading other books I liked, going places with my parents w/o stressing about homework, etc.

I wasn't challenged and became incredibly lazy. That, and I was disruptive because I was bored. I never had to really study for anything. I didn't really have to pay attention in class either. At most, I would skim through the material and still get an A or B. The rare times I actually bombed, my teachers made excuses for me, because they knew I was "smart." It's only when I got to my magnet high school that I was forced to actually study in order to pass. By then it was too late. I was a C student at best. All those years of not having to study made me focus more on trying to figure out why I couldn't find the rhythm or pattern in the teacher's testing style versus actually studying the material. Perhaps if I'd had involved parents then someone could've slapped me upside the head or held me accountable. Once I got into college, it was solely on me. I dropped out and got a job. I take the blame, but I do wonder what could've been if I'd just developed a love of learning versus being bored to death

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's excellent differentiation at my kids' JKLMM school; it is a particular focus of the principal's, and he has sent teachers for training to ensure they are able to teach kids at different levels in the same room. Both of my kids are advanced in reading--one reading 4+ grades above his grade level--and they are both challenged and engaged.

I'd much rather have my kids in diverse classrooms where each kid is taught as his/her level than in a pull-out G&T program.

Murch

=1 I think this model works very well. I would not want to bus my children to a magnet at this age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's excellent differentiation at my kids' JKLMM school; it is a particular focus of the principal's, and he has sent teachers for training to ensure they are able to teach kids at different levels in the same room. Both of my kids are advanced in reading--one reading 4+ grades above his grade level--and they are both challenged and engaged.

I'd much rather have my kids in diverse classrooms where each kid is taught as his/her level than in a pull-out G&T program.

If you are in a JKLM school then its really a different issue. By and large, the entire class is high SES and prepared to learn.

Not necessarily. Not at Murch, at least, which is the school I was discussing above. Yes, large portion of school is high SES. But it's not nearly as uniform as at other JKLM schools. And from my experience pretty much every classroom has a range of learners from below grade level to very far above.

But, yes--you can't underestimate the value of family investment. It's not that Murch kids are uniformly high-ability or uniformly high-SES. It's that the families are uniformly invested in their kids' educations and provide support/continuity at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is not being challenged = my kid is around too many other kids with behavior issues. As a teacher what I love this year is that all my high SES parents threaten to leave because of lack of rigor- when the only truly advanced kid I have is FARMS. The real question is , if DCPs really did g&t how would all the parents react when they realized their kid was just average.

I think it is a shame that that one advanced child in your class doesn't get additional resources. My suspicion is that the powers that be at DCPS think that the G&T classes would be filled with white kids. I'm pretty certain they would be the opposite. I wish they would try this out -- it would shut up the helicopter parents and give some students from hard backgrounds a real chance to excel.

Here here!

Depends on the criteria and approval process for getting kids qualified into the program. It's interesting to compare Moco to FCPS. Moco's HGC has remained a very small program while FCPS's has become enormous, I think because parents have the power to apeal, pay for outside testing etc so it's easier to game the system and get your kid in. I think if the latter type of program was implemented in DCPS then you'd have a really unbalanced population in the gifted and talented. If the program was kept intentionally small and looked for children who are legitimately gifted (ie the top 3-5%) then you'd get a more representative population.

Yup. This is what has happened in NYC. Parents with resources pay for prep and testing to make sure their kids get in, which means bigger and more homogenous "gifted" classes.

[Anonymous]

^^ So the recommendation is to let G & T / honors students rot, or move out of the city? When you have a class with kids acting out and occupying the teacher's entire time, who's learning? When do we stop catering exclusively to the bottom?

[Anonymous]

Problem is the research says that the "bottom" benefits by being in class with your kids more than your kids are damaged by being in class with the "bottom" kids.

This reasoning is used to justify the status quo for your child.

Of course, it's also very political (especially in DCPS).

[Anonymous]

Does anyone use private tutoring services like Kumon in order to supplement DCPS in early elementary?

(People I know in MCPS use Kumon in early elementary despite the perception that MCPS differentiates. I don't know that MCPS does differentiate beyond having magnet schools and even they end up using outside services is what I am thinking.)

[Anonymous]

^^ Something about that research seems flawed and politically motivated - probably by people with kids in private school. The analogy that for differentiation to work, everyone has to be within a reasonable band, such as minimum and maximum speeds on a highway, seems logical. The extremes or marginalized need extra help, whether it's advanced learning or specialized, remedial tutoring or counseling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone use private tutoring services like Kumon in order to supplement DCPS in early elementary?

(People I know in MCPS use Kumon in early elementary despite the perception that MCPS differentiates. I don't know that MCPS does differentiate beyond having magnet schools and even they end up using outside services is what I am thinking.)

If you kids are truly gifted, why do they need Kumon? Not trying to be snarky but I have seen the preschool worksheets from a parent paying for courses and they are not what I would consider challenging for a preschooler from a middle to high SES family. I was more impressed with the exercises/questions in the back of the Scholastic level 1 readers. Kumon seems to focus on memorization whereas the Scholastic exercises really help with critical thinking as it relates to the story.

[Anonymous]

"My kid is not being challenged = my kid is around too many other kids with behavior issues. As a teacher what I love this year is that all my high SES parents threaten to leave because of lack of rigor- when the only truly advanced kid I have is FARMS. The real question is , if DCPs really did g&t how would all the parents react when they realized their kid was just average."

Ha! Well, my kid has been tested outside DCPS, a number of times, so I'm pretty clear where his ability levels fall, and I'm pretty tired of teachers ignoring this and not bothering to differentiate, just because that's easiest for them. Next time you bi*&h about parents, remember that if you want respect, you need to earn it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone use private tutoring services like Kumon in order to supplement DCPS in early elementary?

(People I know in MCPS use Kumon in early elementary despite the perception that MCPS differentiates. I don't know that MCPS does differentiate beyond having magnet schools and even they end up using outside services is what I am thinking.)

If you kids are truly gifted, why do they need Kumon? Not trying to be snarky but I have seen the preschool worksheets from a parent paying for courses and they are not what I would consider challenging for a preschooler from a middle to high SES family. I was more impressed with the exercises/questions in the back of the Scholastic level 1 readers. Kumon seems to focus on memorization whereas the Scholastic exercises really help with critical thinking as it relates to the story.

PP here, the whole "gifted" label is problematic anyway, so I agree with what you are saying. A child can still not be challenged and also not fall within an arbitrary 3% cutoff. I was looking for responses to see if anyone had considered Kumon, but I see your point about the memorization. I guess though, despite it not being en vogue, I do believe memorization of certain skills does play a role in education. I don't know that I would use Kumon, but interested if anyone from DCPS has used the location in Bethesda for example. [ While a bit off topic, I put it in this thread since people who feel DCPS might be ignoring their advanced learner might be in this discussion.]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"My kid is not being challenged = my kid is around too many other kids with behavior issues. As a teacher what I love this year is that all my high SES parents threaten to leave because of lack of rigor- when the only truly advanced kid I have is FARMS. The real question is , if DCPs really did g&t how would all the parents react when they realized their kid was just average."

Ha! Well, my kid has been tested outside DCPS, a number of times, so I'm pretty clear where his ability levels fall, and I'm pretty tired of teachers ignoring this and not bothering to differentiate, just because that's easiest for them. Next time you bi*&h about parents, remember that if you want respect, you need to earn it.

If your child is gifted, and you believe that a dcps cannot meet his needs, then you need to consider a serious change. There are tons of private schools in the area and you are always move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone use private tutoring services like Kumon in order to supplement DCPS in early elementary?

(People I know in MCPS use Kumon in early elementary despite the perception that MCPS differentiates. I don't know that MCPS does differentiate beyond having magnet schools and even they end up using outside services is what I am thinking.)

If you kids are truly gifted, why do they need Kumon? Not trying to be snarky but I have seen the preschool worksheets from a parent paying for courses and they are not what I would consider challenging for a preschooler from a middle to high SES family. I was more impressed with the exercises/questions in the back of the Scholastic level 1 readers. Kumon seems to focus on memorization whereas the Scholastic exercises really help with critical thinking as it relates to the story.

PP here, the whole "gifted" label is problematic anyway, so I agree with what you are saying. A child can still not be challenged and also not fall within an arbitrary 3% cutoff. I was looking for responses to see if anyone had considered Kumon, but I see your point about the memorization. I guess though, despite it not being en vogue, I do believe memorization of certain skills does play a role in education. I don't know that I would use Kumon, but interested if anyone from DCPS has used the location in Bethesda for example. [ While a bit off topic, I put it in this thread since people who feel DCPS might be ignoring their advanced learner might be in this discussion.]

I am not sure what location my friend uses, or whether it matters much, but I have stacks of the worksheets at home. Do you know someone that can share their materials and experience with you? Try your local neighborhood listserve. For me, it was very eye opening to see what they were actually doing first-hand without signing a year-long contract. My friend actually regrets it now; her kid is starting to rebel against going to class after school.