Arguing with DS over major

[Anonymous]

Wahhhhh I can't cut it so I will take English lit and then occupy wall street demanding a job better than making smiley foam faces in coffee

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some thoughts:

--You are paying in-state tuition? It's not like he wants to go private for $200K

--We don't know the jobs that will exist in the next 10 years

--He may change his mind

--I assume UMCP has a lot of practical experience by way of internships and job placement

--If you insist on this, he might find a way to go himself, or never go. Isn't college more than just a job? It's teaching people to think and make connections.

this is correct, including the fact that we won't know whether college degree itself will be worth anything. i would never ever ever pay 100k (let alone 200k!!) for my child's college degree. and i have an ivy league phd.

Read the literature regarding the 'rise of the mandarin' class and then cross that with the fact that many employers fear giving out tests due to 'disparate' impact.

Therefore college degrees serve as a signalling mechanism as competition intensifies for a smaller pool of 'great jobs'.

That said I do think the nature of college will change. Having done some MOOC's on eDx, udacity, and coursera - there is huge promise in atleast doing distributional requirements via online method very cheaply.

But with the shrinking nature of middle class jobs, parents are right to be worried about college and majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, so my DS has decided he will be going to Maryland-college park next year, and now he wants to major in History and Geography.

Obviously, we are not okay with this. We are paying his tuition, and don't want to waste our money on a useless degree. He knows which degrees are okay with us (nursing, engineering, business/accounting, and computer science). We have gotten in several arguments but he seems dead set on wasting our money. We are at the point where we are going to tell him we are not going to allow him to go to college and wait a few years until he is mature enough to make an informed decision on his major, but was wondering if any of you guys had any last-ditch ideas of how to convince him to choose a more acceptable major.

If he is interested in Geography, try to see if he can talk to cartographers or professional geographers in gov and industry.

Doubling up on CS would be very useful in this regard...that's where the field is going.

[Anonymous]

All you fake ass geo, history, English majors and other useless shit, you are lucky the federal government is around to employ you doing that horse shit policy dog shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All you fake ass geo, history, English majors and other useless shit, you are lucky the federal government is around to employ you doing that horse shit policy dog shit.

Hope you get your yearly blow job soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am probably the lone person that agrees with you. My parents told me early on that they would pay for college and graduate school but their one major requirement was that I had to pick a major/degree that would lead to a professional job. They did not care what I minored in and were willing to pay for extra classes in my areas of interest but they were very firm on it. We will be doing the same for our child. I would pick majors that he can minor in that and major in business, education, etc.

OP here, this is exactly what I am doing. This isn't new, DS has known his options for years now, this isn't something that I just dropped on him now he is going to college. Older dd is currently an engineering sophomore at a good school. I have no problem with him getting a minor(s). I don't have the money to pay for a second degree once he realizizes his choices are unemployable.

[Anonymous]

Know people who did that and others who said they would do it with their children. Think the kids chose the majors their parents said they would pay for because they knew there was no bargaining with their no-nonsense, practical parents. And it's really okay. Do what you think is best for your family.

[Anonymous]

While I don't think your major matters too much, it does have help with job prospects in general. Where you go to school also makes a difference when looking at a liberal arts degree, because you can always network your way into a job.

The problem with most of the people promoting liberal arts degrees is they almost exclusively have a graduate degree that lead them to their current career. I am willing to bet they would not be nearly as well off without a graduate degree in a set field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I don't think your major matters too much, it does have help with job prospects in general. Where you go to school also makes a difference when looking at a liberal arts degree, because you can always network your way into a job.

The problem with most of the people promoting liberal arts degrees is they almost exclusively have a graduate degree that lead them to their current career. I am willing to bet they would not be nearly as well off without a graduate degree in a set field.

Many, many jobs require graduate degrees now, including many in the STEM fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you are completely misinformed. I work for a college of arts and sciences at a top US university. On my advisory board are several alumni who graduated with "useless" degrees who are now executives at Fortune 500 companies, VP's at investment firms, successful entreprenuers, attorneys and doctors. Many of them did not major as undergraduates in what they eventually went on to do.

I suggest you read research from the American Association of Colleges and Universities that demonstrates what employers really want - http://www.aacu.org/leap/presidentstrust/compact/2013SurveySummary.cfm.

Here's a summary of the skills they want to see MORE of: "More than 75% of employers say they want more emphasis on 5 key areas including: critical thinking, complex problem-solving, written and oral communication, and applied knowledge in real-world settings."

At a good school, if you work hard and apply yourself, you can gain those SKILLS (vs. specific knowledge) through any major and by participating in research opportunities, internships, and experiential (hands-on) learning opportunities. Students who focus on a very narrow subject, and who take a minimal number of liberal arts courses, may be trained to do something very specific but lacking in the exact skills employers say they want.

Bottom line - you are looking at this the wrong way. If you try to force your (now legally adult) child down a path YOU want, versus supporting them in what they are passionate about, they will not do well in school. Period. I have seen it time and time again. Your child will be more successful if you allow them to pursue their passions academically while encouraging them, throughout their college experience, to take advantage of opportunities that allow them to apply what they've learned in practical, real-world settings.

Do it your way and you will not only damage your relationship with your child, but you will stymy their learning (and future earning) potential. Think on it.

BS. my mother forced my brother to study engineering (his passion was physics) and he was the top student in a very competitive school. he has always been very thankful for it.

That is ONE anecdote. I have worked at 3 different universities. Trust me, I've seen more cases that refute your story than I have seen success cases.

maybe, but you are not objective, nor are you exposed to random cases. or you think you know how each students has decided their major?

i disagree with the rest of your post as well. employers don't necessarily know what they want ie. they know it when they see it, but don't have a proper theory of it.

Wait, what? So what makes your one anecdote "objective?" And are you saying that you know what employers want better than they do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some thoughts:

--You are paying in-state tuition? It's not like he wants to go private for $200K

--We don't know the jobs that will exist in the next 10 years

--He may change his mind

--I assume UMCP has a lot of practical experience by way of internships and job placement

--If you insist on this, he might find a way to go himself, or never go. Isn't college more than just a job? It's teaching people to think and make connections.

this is correct, including the fact that we won't know whether college degree itself will be worth anything. i would never ever ever pay 100k (let alone 200k!!) for my child's college degree. and i have an ivy league phd.

Read the literature regarding the 'rise of the mandarin' class and then cross that with the fact that many employers fear giving out tests due to 'disparate' impact.

Therefore college degrees serve as a signalling mechanism as competition intensifies for a smaller pool of 'great jobs'.

That said I do think the nature of college will change. Having done some MOOC's on eDx, udacity, and coursera - there is huge promise in atleast doing distributional requirements via online method very cheaply.

But with the shrinking nature of middle class jobs, parents are right to be worried about college and majors.

They are right to be worried but it's crazy to pay half a house for a worthless degree so that your child can work for 40 year to buy a whole house. In any case, I didn't say my kids want go to college. We will see what happens, but if the prices in US remain the same, the will go to school abroad. Much chepaer and in many cases more rigorous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am probably the lone person that agrees with you. My parents told me early on that they would pay for college and graduate school but their one major requirement was that I had to pick a major/degree that would lead to a professional job. They did not care what I minored in and were willing to pay for extra classes in my areas of interest but they were very firm on it. We will be doing the same for our child. I would pick majors that he can minor in that and major in business, education, etc.

there's a bit of a difference between saying they'll only support a major that has a career path and OP limiting choice to 4 possible options that appear to be fairly arbitrary and misinformed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you are completely misinformed. I work for a college of arts and sciences at a top US university. On my advisory board are several alumni who graduated with "useless" degrees who are now executives at Fortune 500 companies, VP's at investment firms, successful entreprenuers, attorneys and doctors. Many of them did not major as undergraduates in what they eventually went on to do.

I suggest you read research from the American Association of Colleges and Universities that demonstrates what employers really want - http://www.aacu.org/leap/presidentstrust/compact/2013SurveySummary.cfm.

Here's a summary of the skills they want to see MORE of: "More than 75% of employers say they want more emphasis on 5 key areas including: critical thinking, complex problem-solving, written and oral communication, and applied knowledge in real-world settings."

At a good school, if you work hard and apply yourself, you can gain those SKILLS (vs. specific knowledge) through any major and by participating in research opportunities, internships, and experiential (hands-on) learning opportunities. Students who focus on a very narrow subject, and who take a minimal number of liberal arts courses, may be trained to do something very specific but lacking in the exact skills employers say they want.

Bottom line - you are looking at this the wrong way. If you try to force your (now legally adult) child down a path YOU want, versus supporting them in what they are passionate about, they will not do well in school. Period. I have seen it time and time again. Your child will be more successful if you allow them to pursue their passions academically while encouraging them, throughout their college experience, to take advantage of opportunities that allow them to apply what they've learned in practical, real-world settings.

Do it your way and you will not only damage your relationship with your child, but you will stymy their learning (and future earning) potential. Think on it.

BS. my mother forced my brother to study engineering (his passion was physics) and he was the top student in a very competitive school. he has always been very thankful for it.

That is ONE anecdote. I have worked at 3 different universities. Trust me, I've seen more cases that refute your story than I have seen success cases.

maybe, but you are not objective, nor are you exposed to random cases. or you think you know how each students has decided their major?

i disagree with the rest of your post as well. employers don't necessarily know what they want ie. they know it when they see it, but don't have a proper theory of it.

Wait, what? So what makes your one anecdote "objective?" And are you saying that you know what employers want better than they do?

I am saying I am not going to take at face value whatever some "employer" is telling me, let alone what he is supposedly telling you. Those prestigious employers are looking for highly intelligent without social etc. difficulties. Their tests do that kind of screening plus some random shit. They talk about random shit, while in fact the work is done by the IQ test. In that sense, major indeed doesn't matter. Except that OPs son is not smart enough, so all this is irrelevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some thoughts:

--You are paying in-state tuition? It's not like he wants to go private for $200K

--We don't know the jobs that will exist in the next 10 years

--He may change his mind

--I assume UMCP has a lot of practical experience by way of internships and job placement

--If you insist on this, he might find a way to go himself, or never go. Isn't college more than just a job? It's teaching people to think and make connections.

this is correct, including the fact that we won't know whether college degree itself will be worth anything. i would never ever ever pay 100k (let alone 200k!!) for my child's college degree. and i have an ivy league phd.

Read the literature regarding the 'rise of the mandarin' class and then cross that with the fact that many employers fear giving out tests due to 'disparate' impact.

Therefore college degrees serve as a signalling mechanism as competition intensifies for a smaller pool of 'great jobs'.

That said I do think the nature of college will change. Having done some MOOC's on eDx, udacity, and coursera - there is huge promise in atleast doing distributional requirements via online method very cheaply.

But with the shrinking nature of middle class jobs, parents are right to be worried about college and majors.

They are right to be worried but it's crazy to pay half a house for a worthless degree so that your child can work for 40 year to buy a whole house. In any case, I didn't say my kids want go to college. We will see what happens, but if the prices in US remain the same, the will go to school abroad. Much chepaer and in many cases more rigorous.

PP you quoted. I can agree with this.

[Anonymous]

My husband majored in history - and now he's an archivist working not far from the UMD campus in College Park. Several friends with the same major are now teachers at various levels - high school, college, etc.

Here's a thought for you, OP: if your son pursues a career he has no passion for, it's pretty likely future employers will see that lack of passion and choose another candidate.