Arguing with DS over major

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So how about supporting your sons strengths? My DD is an amazing writer and wants to act and write screenplays.. Talk about head in the clouds but she is passionate about it and quite talented. Most of her friends have no idea what they want to do or study( she is 17 and a jr). She is so focused researching college programs that will get her where she wants to go. No way I would force her to be a Business major and have her be miserable and drop out. I'd rather see her recognize her strengths and give it her all. Sparking a passion in something is half the battle in my opinion

This sounds like the life of a rich kid whose parents are willing to finance their life until their mid 30s or whatever it takes. There are a gazillion talented young adults in NYC and LA all wanting to be writers and actors. Their passion takes them to a seedy hotel or an apartment shared with 7 people and a part time job waitress. Many leave and go home, others stay on family money.

Op wants her son to be an independent adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He's my take on this. Degrees have long been about class and separation. It didn't matter so much what the degree was in but that you had one signaled to your potential employer that that you were of a certain class (not so much class of origin because if you had the means and wherewithal to make it through 4 years of study, you belonged in the safe, middle to upper-middle, employable class, especially if your degree was from a recognizable place).

More people are going to college and BA/BS rates will go much higher than 25%, making a college degree not carry the same weight. What will separate out potential applicants - what the degree is in. If you get a vo-tech degree (business especially) then you will be sorted lower unless you went to the very best schools. Liberal arts degree will be the marker of a certain class that employers will look for - someone with the means to study the liberal arts. Add to that that liberal arts so teach critical analysis and writing skills (I promise that the graduates in history and English at my college do WAY more and WAY better writing than our business graduates), and liberal arts majors will be more employable and will make more money in the future. Even now salary studies show that while they start lower their life-time earnings rise above those with more practical degrees.

Education is about class and always has been.

Well, I was with you until the bolded part. I think the SLAC (and I attended one) are dinosaurs. At the time we all went it was affordable. My student loans were minimal. There was not much competition from my classmates to get into the great schools. I probably got some preferential treatment along the way as a woman but was always top in my class. Now i agree with those who say that the SLAC bubble will burst. The only reason it hasn't burst is due to the international students willing to pay full freight. The SLAC's are doing everything they can to jigger the numbers for Forbes, U.S. News & world report, so charge more in order to spend more on marketing in order to increase applicant class size just so they can reject them to make their employee (the SLAC) looks more selective. This all will crumble someday. In the meantime, it is not the Voc. ed classes/training as you call them that are becoming the hot sellers. It is the computer scientist, the reservoir engineer, the technology wiz, the other STEM specialists who are getting into grad programs and making big bucks. My SLAC is simply not worth $65,000 K a year but four years of Chinese, Arabian, Portuguese and in-demand sophisticated computer science or aerospace engineering at a VA in-state school with grad school to follow is a way to get both the traditional liberal arts coursework (required even at VA Tech and all other VA universities to the vest of my knowledge) while also acquiring a talent that is marketable in the workplace. All my SLAC did for me was get me into Yale Law. And now I am telling kids not to go into law.

[Anonymous]

All my SLAC did for me was get me into Yale Law. And now I am telling kids not to go into law.

One thing I find interesting is that everyone thinks that whatever they did is the hardest, most unreasonable, biggest ponzi scheme joke ever, and their kids should do the opposite of whatever they did. My father was also a lawyer who went to a top law school and went through the grind to make partner at a large firm. He had the same advice--especially regarding the win or take all nature of law these days.

So I got a PhD in chemistry. But there are so many bitter chemists these days about how horrid the job market is, about how academia is a pipe dream, about how industry is insecure, about how your compensation is way less than in business or law or other areas, about how so many scientists end up in an endless postdoc cycle, making 40K in their 40s after a decade of higher education, how the number of professional jobs is way lower than the number of PhD scientists, the layoffs in the pharaceutical industry, etc. There are plenty of PhD scientists (especially those who didn't make it in academia or land on their feet in industry) who warn their kids to never go into science and the notion of going into science (in the life and chemical sciences) and having a good life is about as realistic as making it as an actor in hollywood.

I have a friend who is working in silicon valley as a software engineer in her late 20s with a toddler and she gets compensated extremely well, however she deals with some of the worst, nastiest sexism, especially regarding her pregnancy and demands as a mother. I also know engineers with limited career mobility who struggle to find jobs, especially if they ever want to make more than 60-80K and regret their decision to become engineers.

Then people say the same of finance, of medicine (especially the competitive specialities), of business, really of any lucrative, competitive field. There are a handful of people who do really well, and everyone is left in the dust. It's part of our win or take all culture these days. In some regards, being a lawyer, especially if you are able to go to a top law school has far better odds and/or earning potential than some other competitive fields.

I'm not discouraging my own kids from going into STEM fields. I think those careers can be great for the right person. But I don't think they are guaranteed to secure you a nice life either. Everything is a risk, and people need to forge their own pathways.

[Anonymous]

I'll side with OP - you have every right to NOT pay for a degree that you believe is useless.

A student with straight A's in History + Geography might be able to get into a grad school that will be worthwhile - and maybe you could help with THAT.

But if he is determined to pursue that path and you are sure it is the wrong thing, let him take student loans to pay for it.

[Anonymous]

My Parents told me they wouldn't pay for college unless I could get a job after 4 years. I chose Computer Science despite the fact that I had no idea what it was and no real background that would imply I'd be good at it. I graduated in 4 years. I'm very happy I listened.

I'd have taken Journalism. I think they saved me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how about supporting your sons strengths? My DD is an amazing writer and wants to act and write screenplays.. Talk about head in the clouds but she is passionate about it and quite talented. Most of her friends have no idea what they want to do or study( she is 17 and a jr). She is so focused researching college programs that will get her where she wants to go. No way I would force her to be a Business major and have her be miserable and drop out. I'd rather see her recognize her strengths and give it her all. Sparking a passion in something is half the battle in my opinion

This sounds like the life of a rich kid whose parents are willing to finance their life until their mid 30s or whatever it takes. There are a gazillion talented young adults in NYC and LA all wanting to be writers and actors. Their passion takes them to a seedy hotel or an apartment shared with 7 people and a part time job waitress. Many leave and go home, others stay on family money.

Op wants her son to be an independent adult.

You, and assholes just like you, are disgusting and sad. You are the reason people around the world hate Americans.

[Anonymous]

A parent who has been around the block should be able to offer a lot to a child who doesn't really know what they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're an idiot. My DH is a highly paid consultant who majored in political science (also a crappy major).

I can't believe you would tell a college student what to major in.

FWIW, I agree there are better major choices, but ITS NOT A PARENTS PLACE TO DICTATE THIS CRAP.

I majored in political science in college. I loved it. It was what I was most interested in. I graduated college and took a year to find my first "real job" on Capitol Hill. I did that for four years. I then moved overseas and started consulting for the USG. In my career, I have changed "jobs" five times, lived in seven different countries and travelled to more than 20. I love my career.... and I grossed $150K last year. Not too shabby for a "worthless" degree.

Most degrees that don't actually prep you for entry into a specific job (like engineering or nursing or law) will require you after graduation to think creatively about your skills and talents, the types of organizations where you can use them and how to market yourself. So, in addition to the major, I would make sure the school your kids attend have a good career services center that teaches the skills needed to actually find that first job and succeed in a career.